Summer Island - No 3Delight materials?
Cybersox
Posts: 9,296
in The Commons
At least that's what the cat text appears to say with the verbiage "All materials are adjusted for Iray render." Is that correct, or the text just poorly written?
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We won't know until someone picks it up.
I don't need something like that, personally.
It does say this at the bottom:
Which I always assume mean 3delight mats?
Sometimes I'm never sure with the description any more - there's a few new items in teh store that only list Iray materials, and I don't understand why tehy don't have 3delight mats also, or whether it's actually a typo.
That's why I asked. I thought that's what "DAZ Studio Material Presets" meant as well, but the "All materials are adjusted for Iray render" sounds pretty exclusionary. DAZ's handling of the entire iRay issue has been haphazard from the start, but and now that Poser support is being completely phased out on newer products, there really needs to be a statement at the top of every cat listing covering whether it has mats/shaders set up for 3Delight, iRay and Poser. Espcially since there'll probably be some stuff with Cycles/SuperFly mats coming as well once Poser Pro 2016 launches.
Well, during a recent discussion (thread) I was told, (in a very abrupt manner) that "from now-on IRAY is the default renderer!"
So I would be cautious in assuming that the term 'DAZ Studio Material presets' means 3Delight.
The bit I reckon is important is what is added (the .DUF)
So DAZ Material Presets .DUF could just imply that the laterials are in the DAZ (.DUF) format ... as apposed to say 'PZ2' or whatever.
Of course, .. I could be wrong, ...... saunters off whistling
Duf format basically means that they are Studio format as opposed to Poser format.
From reading the description this line "To get better render result, it's recommended to use Sun and Sky environment mode in render setting. " seems to very much indicate to me at least that this product is for Iray Only..
Which makes me wonder if they will quietly and slowly remove 3Delight from Studio altogether.. Would not be surprised to see 3Delight has been removed from Daz Studio 5 when it is released..
I can't see 3Dellight going bye-bye with DS 5. Not unless they have some kind of instant 3Delight to Iray converter in the works. Otherwise, there's simply too much content in the DAZ store that lacks Iray materials for that abrupt a changeover. After all, while DAZ may be determined to push everyone into Gen 7 as fast as possible, they still make their money off the items in the store and a lot of products would be unusable if they went IR only. That said, by the time we get to DS 6 or certainly DS 7 or 9, I can see that being a long range goal.
Is this the first time that DAZ has released a scene/environment that's iRay only? I don't recall any interior/exterior releases in the past while that were iRay only...
Way back in one of the beta threads, I think it was Rob that mentioned that 3DL was just 're-upped'...and if memory serves, that's generally a 3 yr thing. So, it will be a while before 3DL, if ever, goes away.
And by the time 6 or 7 rolls around 3DL could very well have GPU acceleration, too...and a bunch of other 'goodies'.
I loaded up a prop from the set and the surface material is 3delight.
I think the blurb was saying that the materials were manipulated to render in iray.
There are still plenty of folks using 3delight and prefer it. Iray is popular but that doesnt mean it is a superior renderer.
There are still plenty of folks using 3delight and prefer it. Iray is popular but that doesnt mean it is a superior renderer.
So does anyone know (perhaps Spit?) if this set comes with Iray settings, or whether the PA set up settings for the pieces himself, without including them? And would this mean we should take each piece and use the Daz Studio Uber Iray shaders on them? Even the water, beach and trees? Really like this set but afraid I won't be able to figure out how to "set the surfaces for iray" myself... -Cathy
And believe it or not some (not me) still use 32bit for which there is no iray that said there seems to be a trend for iray only among PA's I believe most new DAZ originals ( not G3F) and PC items still have 3Delight Poser companion files and mats too.
And needless to say, when ALL of the promotional images are in Iray, it's certainly not going spur sales to non-Iray using customers when there's no indication as to what the item looks like in 3Delight. Of course, the number one guilty party in this regard right now is DAZ itself, so one can only fault PAs so much for falling into line behind them. Realistically though, there should be at least one render for any of the main three renderers that are applicable to a specific DAZ product, and the cat text should clearly spell out which ones the product is set up for.
The description is not well written, and as Daz runs a curated marketplace, they should help PAs provide a little more detail in their product listings. The PA gets more sales, which means Daz makes more money. That's perfect sense to me, but sometimes Daz goes out of their way to leave money on the table.
The set doesn't say it has any 3DL content at all, and given the file list here:
http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/22811/file_list
it looks to be Iray only. That saiid, it comes with some interesting features that should have been highlighted in the product text. There are "sky props" for the sky background, so you can use the Sun/Sky in the Iray environment.
While I'm not sure this set fills my needs, it does seem to have some unique aspects to it, but you'd never know that from the description. Imagine spending all that time developing the product to only write two sentences to sell it. That's a shame.
To PAs: Write full, complete, and compelling descriptions if you want us to buy the labor of your hard work. Be working on the marketing of your product *while* you are developing it.
To Daz: Help out your vendors by giving holistic feedback, including suggesting marketing text. By the time they are finished on a project, the PA may be too snowblind to know how to best sell it.
And really, how hard is it to plug a few images into some slots in a shader and make a few tests/adjustments and then save as a material preset?
I wouldn't mind, at all, if all that was given were the raw image maps...no presets at all.
My thoughts exactly! I render in Luxrender and have to do this EVERY time i start a project
I use Luxrender, 3Delight (often with other than Daz 'standard' shaders), Iray, Cycles and in the past Pov-ray and Kerkythea...so, yeah, each and every one is a somewhat different setup. At least once you get something set up, you can then save your own presets.
I can never understand why some people consider a product unusable unless it happens to have the shaders for their preferred renderer. As long as you have access to the obj data and the textures, anything can be made to work in pretty much any 3d app for any renderer. Granted it is a bit more work without the shaders of choice, but it is still doable.
Havos, I'm with you. If there are texture maps, even better. Sew it together with stuff of your choice and bam, cool scene.
Then again, I love messing with textures.
LOL, I'm not with either of you. It needs to work out of the box for MANY reasons. Time constraints, and the knowledge how to do it- and back to time, the time to figure out how to do it. I'm not a technical person. I'm not disagreeing with what you said, only it won't work for me personally. Envy your talent!
It's not a matter of being usable or unusable. Rather, a primary factor that many of us take into account when buying prebuilt assets is speed and convenience. Time is money and if buying a product ends up costing additional time versus what would be expended on a second similar product that works out of the box, then the effective cost of the first product goes up proportionately.
Novica, I agree with you. I still use 3Delight and if the item doesn't work out of the box in 3Delight then I'm not overly interested in spending my hard earned money for it. I'm interested in Bank Vault which is another one by the same PA. From the file list I suspect it will work in 3Delight; but from the description I'm not quite sure.
https://www.daz3d.com/bank-vault
Charlie
I don't want to spend my time re-texturing. Yeah, I can and do reshade stuff. But lately I've begun to question the quality of content sold at DAZ. I was told repeately that the store has high standards which have become higher lately, but to be honest some of the textures seem pretty poorly done.
I am not an especially choosy person but yeah, I do want clothing that doesn't look like plastic.
I also think stuff should look good out of the box. At least baseline good.
I'm with Novica on that one.
Most of the materials have the omUberSurface shader applied. It appears to me the set was originally setup with omUberSurface shaders with some surfaces cherry picked and have the IrayUber shader applied. In this render, I reviewed the materials of the renderered objects and listed the omUberSurface and IrayUber materials:
IrayUber Materials: Straw Roofs, Large Rocks, Dry Sand, Sea Surface, Barware glasses, liquid
omUberSurface Materials: All Plants, bark and leaves, Beach Chairs, Hut Stools, Hut Bases, Kayaks, Sea Foam, Wet Sand (by the sea edge), Sea Bottom, Umbrella Framework, Surf Boards, Fruits, coconuts, props on the bar hut.
I used the Iray sky-sun built in lighting and hid the four "sky" props, as it blocked the lighting. Render with a GTX 980 took 14 minutes. I added a light set and tried rendering with 3Delight, but the render came to sloooow (did I say sloooooooow?) crawl when it hit the transmapped palm trees which tied up the CPU and web browsing became unuseable. I aborted the render.
Lindsey, have you tried the 3Delight render with progressive mode on? That may help with the transmapped trees?
If the textures are poor I agree with you, redoing the textures is a lot of work, and you need non trivial expertise to make a good job of it. My comments were addressed purely to the shaders, many of which can be switched with a few clicks, leaving the original textures in place.
Some of the clothing items on sale here (and elsewhere) do not have textures at all, and clearly in these cases getting the same result with a different shader/renderer is not easy.
Thank you for the suggestion! Progressive mode while rendering in 3Delight did improve the render speed immensely!
I agree with Novica on the shader/retexturing issue - I enjoy using shader presets, but to make my own, I really have no clue how to do that - I am not very technical. I find it's not easy for me to follow alot of the tutorials because they seem to assume that the reader/watcher has alot more experience and understanding than I personally have in this field. I've tried following the Iray threads but so much of what's discussed there just goes over my head.
I really envy those of you who so easily know how to set these things up for yourselves, but I am far away from that point myself.
Although it would be appreciated, I would not expect a set to have both material types included. It would sure be nice though if it would clearly state what it does include. -Cathy