Show Daz that Carrara users are a market worth supporting! How many Product Pages do you have?

evilproducer · July 2015

bigh said:
I bet most of the models were free or less then $2

and some people like to fib about what they have .

You're not getting Page Envy are you? ;-P

I don't think anybody is "fibbing," as the question at the beginning of the thread was about how many pages were in the product library. Many discounted items and freebies require a PC membership, so even if you join just for those, you're still buying a membership.

Even if most of someone's library were discounted or free, it still illustrates the ability to use content from the DAZ store.

PhilW · July 2015

Superdog said:

PhilW said:

If you have a number of Aniblocks, o you have the Aniblock Carrara Importer? You can then use Aniblocks directly in Carrara, in the same way that you can use NLA Clips.

I do have the aniblock importer which is great but working with aniblocks is not ideal in either DS or Carrara because when joining them together there are often problems making the animation flow realistically from one block to another. That takes huge amounts of tweaking using keyframes to solve. I want to know how to do this as easy as possible. What I'd like is a tutorial about all these little problems that never seem to get addressed in other tutorials about animation using DAZ figures. A lot of the animation tutorials seem to skim the surface and don't address rigging and other problems when using different figures with aniblocks and BVH files or even when trying to create realistic movement from scratch.

I really would like a tutorial that goes in-depth not just about how to create a walk cycle even though that's important for beginners too but one that shows us how to solve sliding feet, twitching and various other anomolies that completely ruin an animation. The problem is that just one moment of these glitches in an animation utterly destroys the illusion of realistic movement so I want to prevent them happening at all. That might seem a tall order but I believe it's possible, especially if I knew how to harness all the features in Carrara, and I want to learn how to reach this level of ability with as many tips and tricks as possible.

I'm not asking for much am I?

I agree with Wendy that this should probably be a separate topic rather than derailing this thread, but just to say that it probably comes down to - do you want to do it quick and easy, or do you want to do it well? To get maximum quality and control, you probably need to hand animate most things, and animation is a time-consuming endeavour by definition.

Chohole · July 2015

Just a reminder TOS bullet point #2

Plus I see an awful lot of assumption and speculation being made here by some people. That can amount to attacking other members by using assumptions as fact.

Headwax · July 2015

Thanks Chohole, and thank you to everyone who has responded (-and are still responding to) the initial questions. ;)

if Daz wants to know how much money they can make out of Carrara users if they support us, then it's obvious they can get a good idea by looking at this thread.

If they don't support Carrara in the future there will be two sets of losers.

Of course, one set of ' losers' will be the Carara community.

It's obvious to me, given the totals that joe mumma has kindly put together, that the biggest loser, in a financial sense, will be daz.

Given that possible outcome, I wonder if they will tell their shareholders what a stupid mistake they made?

PhilW · July 2015

It would be good to send a summary to someone at DAZ rather than rely on them looking at this thread. I think Kevin and Carl would be the right people.

rampart_1576840087 · July 2015

I made an earlier posting... in this thread. I don't count by pages. I have spent over $1,200 on content since January. All of PhilWeeks tutorials, and all manner of other content items to use in Carrara.

I can assure anyone from Daz3d, if they are listenting... I would not have spent 1/10 that amount on Daz3d content I could not use with Carrara.

Carrara was my focus when I came onto these forurms and began to make inquiries about Carrara.

If Daz3d decides to cancel Carrara I hope there will be some good input on these forums from other Carrara users sharing iformatoin about application/s that will provide comparable tools.

If Daz3d quits Carrrara I will be angry as well

Chohole · July 2015

PhilW said:

It would be good to send a summary to someone at DAZ rather than rely on them looking at this thread. I think Kevin and Carl would be the right people.

Surely it is more a thing for the marketing dept.

rampart_1576840087 · July 2015

PhilW said:

It would be good to send a summary to someone at DAZ rather than rely on them looking at this thread. I think Kevin and Carl would be the right people.

I have gone through your videos so many times. I have learned something new everytime, as I have become more proficient with Carrara. You have done a real service to this community.

I realize many more volumes could be developed. --- If Carrara goes on I think terrains and shaders could be a valuable tutorial package. There is alot of informaton available, but teaching and sharing are two different things.

Best Regards

PhilW · July 2015

Rampart - that's an interesting idea! My next training title will be about Animating in Carrara, but I have always felt that Carrara can do many of the things that Vue can do (OK, Vue is very tailored to landscapes while Carrara is more of an all rounder), so something around Landscapes in Carrara, covering terrains, skies, replicators etc. would maybe get more people using these under-utilised resources in Carrara.

PhilW · July 2015

Chohole said:

PhilW said:

It would be good to send a summary to someone at DAZ rather than rely on them looking at this thread. I think Kevin and Carl would be the right people.

Surely it is more a thing for the marketing dept.

Thanks Chohole - do you have a name and email address?

Chohole · July 2015

PhilW said:

Chohole said:

PhilW said:

It would be good to send a summary to someone at DAZ rather than rely on them looking at this thread. I think Kevin and Carl would be the right people.

Surely it is more a thing for the marketing dept.

Thanks Chohole - do you have a name and email address?

Surely, as a PA you have that sort of contact with DAZ, moreso than the Forum Team does.

rampart_1576840087 · July 2015

PhilW said:

Rampart - that's an interesting idea! My next training title will be about Animating in Carrara, but I have always felt that Carrara can do many of the things that Vue can do (OK, Vue is very tailored to landscapes while Carrara is more of an all rounder), so something around Landscapes in Carrara, covering terrains, skies, replicators etc. would maybe get more people using these under-utilised resources in Carrara.

Vue is a serious expense for terrain building. Carrara will manage terrains well enough for most video production and the quick build tools work well enough. Bryce is better for more specific things, but I suspect Bryce will disappear before Carrara.

Iclone uses Earth Sculptor, which has no quick build tools. Iclone did update recently to allow Image masks, and height map migration. This opened the IClone for many other terrain builder tools. The application of shaders for image masks, and height maps is all it takes for migration to Iclone for Carrara terrain migration.

Anyway, best of luck with animations. IMO, if you can do something with animations you may need to go outside Carrara and use some other tools that faciliate animation in Carrara. The Carrara timeline is confusing and basically sucks.

DUDU · July 2015

rampart_1576840087 said:
The Carrara timeline is confusing and basically sucks.

It is precisely this timeline which I just love in Carrara, have you ever seen that in Poser, it's a nightmare !

Superdog · July 2015

PhilW said:

Superdog said:

PhilW said:

If you have a number of Aniblocks, o you have the Aniblock Carrara Importer? You can then use Aniblocks directly in Carrara, in the same way that you can use NLA Clips.

I do have the aniblock importer which is great but working with aniblocks is not ideal in either DS or Carrara because when joining them together there are often problems making the animation flow realistically from one block to another. That takes huge amounts of tweaking using keyframes to solve. I want to know how to do this as easy as possible. What I'd like is a tutorial about all these little problems that never seem to get addressed in other tutorials about animation using DAZ figures. A lot of the animation tutorials seem to skim the surface and don't address rigging and other problems when using different figures with aniblocks and BVH files or even when trying to create realistic movement from scratch.

I really would like a tutorial that goes in-depth not just about how to create a walk cycle even though that's important for beginners too but one that shows us how to solve sliding feet, twitching and various other anomolies that completely ruin an animation. The problem is that just one moment of these glitches in an animation utterly destroys the illusion of realistic movement so I want to prevent them happening at all. That might seem a tall order but I believe it's possible, especially if I knew how to harness all the features in Carrara, and I want to learn how to reach this level of ability with as many tips and tricks as possible.

I'm not asking for much am I?

I agree with Wendy that this should probably be a separate topic rather than derailing this thread, but just to say that it probably comes down to - do you want to do it quick and easy, or do you want to do it well? To get maximum quality and control, you probably need to hand animate most things, and animation is a time-consuming endeavour by definition.

Yes, apologies for taking the thread OT somewhat but I think it's related in that more people might work in Carrara if they were shown how to take advantage of its superior features that many people like me don't yet know how to use. I definitely want to animate with maximum quality and control. I would like to animate figures realistically so a training video animating balls and cubes which seems to be where a lot of animation training associated with DS/Carrara begins and ends isn't very helpful. I want to learn how to apply subtle hand and eye movements, How to make figures transistion smoothly from one position to another. The mechanics of the moving body is an essential part of realistic animation but that doesn't seem to get focused on apart from how to create a walk cycle which is part of so many training videos already available. Animation training that I've seen so far seems a bit like a training video about lighting that focuses on the technical details of how to use a light but not on how to create realistic lighting. I'm sure there is more to share about Carrara animation than just what the different animation tools do. I want to learn how to use them creatively.

Milo · July 2015

PhilW WHen you do your animation tutorial, there is a nice discussiong going on about locking the feet and 3dage pointed to a sharecg addon by fabaone for genesis as target helpers for feet and has a number of ERC additions. (you are probably already more aware of this but thought just in case )

I can tell you while I got DS back when it first came out, I bought Carrara and the products, tutorials etc I have purchased from daz over the lifetime I have been here has been for Carrara.

mmoir · July 2015

Superdog,

If you started a thread about animating I willl definitely put my 2cents in when I can to help the learning process along. It looks like we want the same goal with regards to animating in Carrara. Hopefully you or someone else starts a thread that we can all participate in. I did have themed animation challenge threads for Carrara users but haven't posted one in a couple of months.

Mike

JaguarElla said:

Superdog said:

PhilW said:

If you have a number of Aniblocks, o you have the Aniblock Carrara Importer? You can then use Aniblocks directly in Carrara, in the same way that you can use NLA Clips.

I do have the aniblock importer which is great but working with aniblocks is not ideal in either DS or Carrara because when joining them together there are often problems making the animation flow realistically from one block to another. That takes huge amounts of tweaking using keyframes to solve. I want to know how to do this as easy as possible. What I'd like is a tutorial about all these little problems that never seem to get addressed in other tutorials about animation using DAZ figures. A lot of the animation tutorials seem to skim the surface and don't address rigging and other problems when using different figures with aniblocks and BVH files or even when trying to create realistic movement from scratch.

I really would like a tutorial that goes in-depth not just about how to create a walk cycle even though that's important for beginners too but one that shows us how to solve sliding feet, twitching and various other anomolies that completely ruin an animation. The problem is that just one moment of these glitches in an animation utterly destroys the illusion of realistic movement so I want to prevent them happening at all. That might seem a tall order but I believe it's possible, especially if I knew how to harness all the features in Carrara, and I want to learn how to reach this level of ability with as many tips and tricks as possible.

I'm not asking for much am I?

just possibly in the wrong thread

there are lots of people like Mark Moir as well as Phil who know heaps about animation, maybe start a dedicated thread on your concerns etc

Steve K · July 2015

PhilW said:

Superdog - I am planning to do a training title around Animation in Carrara, maybe that will help?

Sounds good, Phil. I've been animating in Carrara for years, but I'm sure I'm missing some techniques. I've certainly picked up some good tips in your earlier Carrara training titles.

Steve K · July 2015

PhilW said:

... Not everyone who uses Carrara and buys content frequents these forums, and even if they do, they may not have responded to this thread (judging by views vs. comments, there are a lot of lurkers!). So I reckon that you can probably multiply your totals by anywhere between 2x and 10x the revenues for DAZ. And that looks to me like a figure that deserves a little support.

Good points, Phil.

Steve K · July 2015

Superdog said:

Tim_A said:

Don't dump regular customers to go chasing after rainbows

I am reminded of a movie scene where a manager of a car rental place is talking to the company owner. The owner is explaining that he is starting a new company that will offer a lower price service - cheaper cars, less customer service, less expensive locations, etc. The new company will of course be competing with the existing, higher quality company. The manger thinks for a few seconds, then tells the owner, "Yeah, I've heard of that strategy. Its called 'pissing in the soup' ".

starboard · July 2015

I would very much welcome Phil's upcoming tutorials on animation. Especially with respect to walk cycles. Each time I have to create one in Carrara I end up making a search on line for some aid. I always end up reverting to Eadweard Mutbridge's book on The Human Figure in Motion.. first published in 1887. Surely there can be something better after all these years. Adn yet, with his primitive photoagraphy he seems to have got the essence.

Starboradtack

starboard · July 2015

Sorry about the spelling...It should be Muybridge.. Trying to dash off the e-mail before we go out to eat. It really is an excellent book..

Starboardtack

PhilW · July 2015

Muybridge may be an old source, but as far as I know, people walked pretty much the same then as now! His work has been a classic reference for animators for decades.

0oseven · July 2015

A bit late in the discussion but

1] 15 Since introduction of Daz Install manager [ messy with problems] I am reluctant to buy daz products - which unfortunately wont help our cause.

I would like option to use old installer.

2] Carrara - As each version of Studio is released, I like it less - Animate plugin however is excellent.

3] No - or any Genesis - I stay with V4/M4 because my bvh or poser animation library works with them.

In my opinion the best thing Daz could do is have Carrara break away from Studio in the sense it is marketed separately to a different audience and would gain more users if it was seen to be supported and had a future. It is worth far more than the $150 they ask for it.

de3an · July 2015

PhilW said:

Muybridge may be an old source, but as far as I know, people walked pretty much the same then as now!

Except in the 1970's when some people walked like this:

Sorry, OT but I couldn't resist.

BC Rice · July 2015

I've never used DAZ3D. Carrara is the only 3D program I use. I spent around $1,000 last year on products, I know. I also picked up carrara 8.5 today (I finally made the move from 7Pro because of the sale). That urged me to pick up a platinum subscription and I grabbed another 60 bucks worth of product.

I'm happy with Carrara. I'm sure I'll be even more happy with 8.5. All I've ever cared about (much more than the rendering stuff that I know gets everyone else super moist) is the animation interface. It would be nice to have a proper animation interface ala iClone or Poser where you can build your animations and then load them into a character. Right now I pretty much have to exclusively create or pay to have created mocaps.

I'm a fan of mocaps, but it'd be nice to have a little something within Carrara that would allow one to build some small animations without having to load a bunch of secondary files, ya know?

Other than that...I don't know that I need a bunch more from DAZ with regards to Carrara. Like, it feels to me like it beats DAZ3D in every conceivable way. Maybe they're just nearing the limits of what they can do (within the framework of their business model). I mean, program research and development is probably pretty expensive and time consuming and maybe the returns just aren't there? I don't know.

Im happy with Carrara. I think the more 3rd parties can jump in like with this Octane thing, the better. But yeah, that's the only reason I buy anything from DAZ -- it's to use it in Carrara.

BC Rice · July 2015

(To clarify, I mean, like, to be able to "build" animations via a slider interface. Like, "walking slowly, hey, wave a hand, now smile, while you're still walking -- lock, save and upload to the character." That would be nice.

DADA_universe · July 2015

head wax said:

Thanks Chohole, and thank you to everyone who has responded (-and are still responding to) the initial questions. ;)

if Daz wants to know how much money they can make out of Carrara users if they support us, then it's obvious they can get a good idea by looking at this thread.

If they don't support Carrara in the future there will be two sets of losers.

Of course, one set of ' losers' will be the Carara community.

It's obvious to me, given the totals that joe mumma has kindly put together, that the biggest loser, in a financial sense, will be daz.

Given that possible outcome, I wonder if they will tell their shareholders what a stupid mistake they made?

I just hope Daz won't make neurotics of some of us based on how much they are allowing the optimism vs pessimism pendulum to swing with reckless abandon. There I was resolutely seated in lotus position, breathing in and breathing out and humming to myself....."it shall be well with Carrara.....it shall be well with Carrara", (you get the picture?). Then my resless eyes had to wander to this irksome portion taken from a course called 'The Dark Side of Technology Careers' (the title should have warned me, but I'm stubborn like that) by some dude called Dan Appleman on the Digital Tutors website. I know, I know, I have no one but myself to blame. At this rate, Daz might have to consider selling "Psychotherapy Sessions for Carrara Users" on their store because they sure are creating some decent demand for it......come to think of it, maybe that is what their whole growth plan for Carrara is all about!

How do you know if a product is going to fail? Surprisingly, it's a bit easier than knowing if it will succeed. First, ask yourself if the product is any good. Check out the bug list. Are problems being addressed? Do fixes cause new bugs? If you see that bugs are not being addressed or that every attempt at a fix causes massive new problems, it suggests serious process and engineering issues that may cripple the product. If the product is shipping, check out customer forums. Are people happy? Great. Are they complaining that the product lacks features? Also great, it means that you'll have good upgrade revenue. Are they complaining that it doesn't work the way it's supposed to or doesn't meet specifications? That's a problem. Check out your company's product marketing. If you can't find it, you have good reason to be worried. If you're at a public company, read your company's financial report. It will often break down individual product lines so you can get a sense of which products lines have increasing revenue and which ones are failing or not meeting expectations. Product success and failure is a bit like a hurricane. You can't really anticipate its path.It has the power to either sink a company or blow it to huge success, and if you pay attention you can get just enough advance notice to know whether you need to get out of the way or can sit back and enjoy the ride.

DesertDude · July 2015

BC Rice said:

(To clarify, I mean, like, to be able to "build" animations via a slider interface. Like, "walking slowly, hey, wave a hand, now smile, while you're still walking -- lock, save and upload to the character." That would be nice.

I don't have experience using NLA tracks, but maybe something to look into. Apologies if that is not helpful, like I said, I have no experience using them.

PhilW · July 2015

The whole NLA system is pretty powerful and a great aid to animating. Definitely something worth investigating.

BC Rice · July 2015

Yeah, I think it's a great aid. It's just not particularly awesome at creating organic movements from scratch. Having a lot of built in tools, like a variable walk cycle slider, emotion slider, et al, would go a long way. It's something you can do in a variety of other programs, then save out, then import into Carrara. It would just be cool if Carrara had the ability to do it natively like other lesser render engines (like Poser and iClone) have.

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