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Is there an accurate grand piano model compatible with MCasual's MIDI script?

GuidotoriusGuidotorius Posts: 11
edited December 1969 in The Commons

Hi, all!

Does anyone know of a physically-accurate 3D model of a full-sized concert grand piano compatible with DAZ Studio and MCasual's MIDI script?

My goal is to animate it, so to be useful the model must have rigged keys and pedals; an adjustable lid, stick (aka lid prop), keyboard cover (aka fall board), and music stand (aka music desk); and a modeled interior (not a 2D photo, or worse, nothing at all).

As those interested in this post probably already know, MCasual has created a script that allows users to animate a piano keyboard using MIDI data (translated into a txt file), for which I can only say, "Thank you!" Due to MCasual's efforts, I'm one step closer to fulfilling my dream of creating a music video featuring an animated grand piano performing my piano music. However, there is still one catch to making my dream come true. I cannot seem to find an accurate 3D model of a full-sized concert grand that is compatible with DAZ Studio, a complaint that Kyoto Kid raised in 2013. Since then, has an accurate full-sized grand piano model with rigging become available that works in DAZ Studio?

I've tried a variety of solutions.

1. Hiro Nakazawa has demonstrated a strategy to use Japanese-language freeware to import a baby grand into iCone, which would likely also work in DAZ. However, I haven't been able to get the Japanese-language freeware to work properly on my system, and the model, although a great baby grand, cannot replace a full-sized concert grand piano. (I've tried and it's simply too small to look right in the scene!)

2. Content developer Dimension3D sells a MIDI Piano Bundle--containing an upright piano, electronic piano and synthesizer--through Content Paradise. It allows users to automatically animate any of the models it contains by uploading a MIDI file into a Windows app that converts it to posable key data. This solution works in Poser 10, but does not work properly in DAZ or iClone. In both programs, linear interpolation appears to cause the keys to be depressed in slow motion and stay depressed for much longer than the notes last, at least in DAZ. Unlike wendy♥catz, I could not get a working version of the upright to import into iClone. (I'm not sure why.) Although it's nice to have a working upright for Poser 10 projects, an upright piano does not a grand piano make, and unless I shell out several hundred dollars for Poser Pro 2014 or Poser Game Developer, I'm working in a 32-bit program that can't seem to render complex scenes without hanging my system. In this respect, the 64-bit DAZ and iClone do much better. Furthermore, Poser 10 cannot export FBX files, so it doesn't play nicely with other programs (Poser Game Developer does, however, but it costs several hundred dollars.)

3. I've tried downloading Archive3D models, CGShare models, and contacting several content developers who've made accurate concert grands for 3D Studio Max. I still haven't found an accurate, fully rigged model. I've been quoted a cost of $100 to have one custom made, which is not a bad price, but a bit out of my price range at the moment.

4. Meanwhile, for $20, I can generate fully automated, MIDI-controlled 3D animations of a concert grand using the iPad app Piano 3D that feature moving cameras, smooth dissolves, effective lighting, and great reflections. Even the interior of the piano looks great (although it appears to be non-functional). Best of all, I can upload my own MIDI files to the app and have it play them. I can even upload videos of its generically-named "Concert Grand" playing my piano pieces to YouTube, so why don't I use it? Because I want artistic control over the scene, camera angles, look of the piano, etc. Plus, there are hundreds of Piano 3D videos on YouTube, and they all look about the same. It's simply not yet an appropriate solution for storytelling, but if its developers would sell a DAZ Studio prop version of it, now that would be interesting...

5. In theory, I might be able to use a workaround to obtain the model I want. I could replace the keys in TecFlip's Grand Piano model (available free through 3D Warehouse) with the keys from Dimension 3D's upright. If MCasual's script can animate the Dimension 3D MIDI Piano keys correctly in DAZ, something the original Dimension 3D app cannot do, then we're in business. TecFlip's model is pretty good; however, it's not a full-sized concert grand, but it is workable. What I'm looking for, though, is a rigged full-sized concert grand.

Anyone know of an accurate, rigged grand piano model?

Comments

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,273
    edited December 1969

    have you asked cas?

  • GuidotoriusGuidotorius Posts: 11
    edited December 1969

    I presume you mean MCasual? Is that who you mean by cas? If so, I have been corresponding with him. In our last correspondence, he indicated that there were rigged models online. Indeed, I've found many free grand piano models, but so far none are fully rigged concert grands. That's the challenge I'm trying to solve.

  • MarcCCTxMarcCCTx Posts: 943
    edited December 1969

    Dumb question, could you hide the body of a correctly rigged keyboard and hide the keys on an incorrect grand piano. (Pain in the neck, but don't most keyboards have a standard 88 keys, or is there more to this?)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,856
    edited December 1969

    ...so far, the most accurate Concert Grand Piano model I have found is still the Kawai EX (124$) over on Turbosquid . However aside from not having a rigged keyboard it only allows for what is termed "Editorial" use (one needs to actually read the full terms and conditions of the licence). They have added a second model, a Yamaha 9' for 99$ but the same licence conditions apply. Both are available in .obj format which is the only one that can be directly imported into Daz.

    The issue of usage basically comes down to this: If the model bears the name of an actual piano maker (like Kawai, Bosendorfer, or Steinway) the licence comes under what is known as Intellectual property rights. These are held not by the modeller, but the actual company that creates/manufactures the item in RL. Therefore to use either of the pianos above in any other form like a game, advert, story illustration, film, etc., would require securing an agreement from the actual manufacturer of the item that is modelled (in this instance Kawai or Yamaha) which could be more trouble and cost than it is worth if it is even possible.

    Meanwhile,

    A friend recently found this free one over on Rendo which is pretty good and includes the interior frame and strings.

    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/?item_id=75378

    Yeah it would be nice if Ness released a full concert grand as the Harpsichord is very nicely detailed.

  • AVU4UAVU4U Posts: 67

    Nicely detailed, but it won't do what you want which is to maped midi notes to the keys. I brought it into Daz 4.8 and its only a .obj file. Maybe the Blender file has the parts, but since I don't have bBlender In dunno.

     

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,856

    ...Blender is free.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    kyoto kid said:

    ...Blender is free.

     oO

    I've looked at the file in Blender...and the keys are all one obj. and aren't even in groups.  You'd need to separate each key into at least it's own group, if not individual obj to make it able to be rigged in DS.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,856
    edited July 2015

    ... yeah, I know, I don't use it because it just doesn't jive with the way I think, however, I realise for others it could be an option as some seem to be able to comprehend it far better than I out of the box.

    One may expect I would suggest Hexagon, but it is really "hit or miss" as to it's stability, thus the frustration level is just about as bad (if not worse) as when it crashes you lose work.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited July 2015

    Yeah, Blender is a horse of a different color...

    I think one of the things is that I've been using it for ages (at least 10 yrs now) because it was one of the programs that didn't cost a fortune that was very capable of doing Morrowind mods.

    But for the piano, it isn't 'hard' work to make it so it could be animated...just very tedious/repetative (full keybaord...not a quick/easy job).

    Dang it...my daughter saw your sig...

    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • KeironKeiron Posts: 419
    edited May 2016

    Hi Guidotorius

    I've just imported the piano model into Blender unfortunately the keys aren't seperate nor are the hammers, it would take a lot of work in Blender to make it all animatable

    If you are OK with the just the keys playing using Mcasuals MIDIload script you could use the Grand Piano from Renderosity.com

    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?search=musical+instruments its around $10 from Truform, this one has movable keys and pedals

    I have made a set of profiles for this grand, which you can load inside Mcasuals script that work well

    I have also created an Excel sheet to correct a number of problems, found in the MIDI file in the case of a piano

    "note on, note on, note off note off" have been corrected to "note on, note off, note on, note off" as well as a heep of other issues I found

    let me know if you would like to try the profiles and Excel file out

    Please note the Excel file is for Windows not Mac

     

    I have also tried the MIDI keyboard kit before with the same issues you have seen, didn't work in Daz Studio

    Casual offered his skills to produce MIDIload, he is a Star and made it work for us all and went on, to make it even better

    In connection with using other Keyboards and Piano models you will likely need a profile for each, as most of them have different naming conventions

    I've uploaded a number of help videos on youtube which are also available here in Daz Forums "Art Studio"

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/70673/animating-a-keyboard-using-a-midi-text-file#latest

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/67013/animating-a-drum-with-midi/p1

    The piano image shows the piano from Truform. I have thined down the lid and stand a bit and converted the textures to Iray

    I'm currently rendering my next video with the Piano and my own animatable Sax using Iray, so its gonna take a while

    sax01052.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 783K
    Post edited by Keiron on
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