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Just because it happens every time doesn't mean it is acceptable. WooHoo - empty my wallet again!!!
When you have just spent a year building up a library of morphs and characters and add-ons for G2 Females and are then urged to forget all that and start building yet another library of equivalent products for the new generation, you become disillusioned. Unless, of course, you have lots of money and these are trivial sums in your world.
Thanks! Here are some turnarounds. Very excited about V7's ability to put her arms over her head without her shoulders looking like Gumby.
The face wasn't touched in z-brush, just adjusted base G3F's face slightly with dials in DAZ. The body morph was made in z-brush.
I've read something here and there about the new UV maps being more friendly with z-brush but so far I haven't discovered in what way... exporting my displacement maps was the same routine as ever before, still had to export different UV zones separately so they don't layer on top of each other. Is there a new trick with the new style of UV maps that allows them to work better in z-brush?
Thought I'd share something I discovered while playing around with dawn and clones that may be useful with this new figure. I was able to use V4's clone to convert Gen2 clothing to Dawn with reasonable success.
Here is Gen 3 wearing Littlefox's V4 sugar pants and corset converted using the gen2 clone. Took 5 mins, smoothing modifier added but no work in a modelling program. I tend to find even with autofit that I still make minor fixes when converting clothing no matter which clone I'm using.
I know that it isn't perfect but with a fix morph for any minor problems (quick and easy using either ZBrush or Hexagon) perfectly usable.
cheers
Pen
you forgot link or pic
G3f has no forearm side-side dial
is this intended ?
you forgot link or pic
thanks...fixed it.
Just because it happens every time doesn't mean it is acceptable. WooHoo - empty my wallet again!!!
When you have just spent a year building up a library of morphs and characters and add-ons for G2 Females and are then urged to forget all that and start building yet another library of equivalent products for the new generation, you become disillusioned. Unless, of course, you have lots of money and these are trivial sums in your world.
It's not V7 emptying your wallet, it is you yourself. G2 doesn't magically disapear. Nobody force an upgrade. Lot's ofothers keep supporting G2 and lower. Idon't see any reason to complain. Not ready for V7 yet? Then just wait, wait, till your ready. Why all that panicing?
forearm side/side is unnatural. Try that on yourself, and your bones will break painfully. An ellbow joint is for bending only. BTW: that's, why your forearm has 2 paralell bones. Only both together make it possible to twist the wrist.
My guess is that it is intentional since the human elbow doesn't move that way in nature (any perceived real world side-side movement of the elbow should be able to be accomplished by twisting the shoulder).
But I think you can still get the same thing as what on previous generations was labeled side-side movement there by unhiding and then unlocking the "z-rotate" parameter on the forearm. (to show hidden parameters, select "show hidden properties" from the parameters tab's context menu)
But really, the human elbow can't do this movement, unlike the knee which is a hinge joint that does have side-side some wiggle room in real life. (though it isn't super comfortable)
I am with you all the way on this and your previous to this post too. I started out with this end of 3D stuff right here at DAZ and DS in 2004. I was dying to try out Poser too, but had to save my pennies a while for that. In 2006 I got P6. And the upgrade treadmill for the software AND all the Figures began for ME. It had already been going on with some folks here for the entire time I'd been here, and they had pretty much the same things to say you already did.
The technology does a major shift upwards roughly every 18 months to two years. I hadn't realized Genesis 2 had been out some 17 months already till Aeon Soul reminded me in a post at DA. Gosh where DOES the time GO!!!! Still, there was a major technology shift this time, and DAZ's direction shows a course toward MAINSTREAM ready use of their Figure products. Hence, Genesis 3 is keeping new standards in mesh, skin, morph articulation and animation. Unless SM-Poser makes a major course change, Poser will never use Genesis 3 and up.
And as you indicate, with Gen 4, which was around YEARS before Genesis, there is a suitable variety of both Figure enhancement and character products as well as accessories. So we, the home users, the 'cottage industry' where all of THIS began, do have the ability to continue with some very fine and usable Figures for older versions of Studio as well as all versions of Poser.
Then too, DAZ could totally surprise ALL of us, pull a cool rabbit out of the hat and give us a plugin that allows ALL the software to freely utilize Genesis 3 to its fullest! Well, I can WISH can't I?
Now hopefully Richard Haseltine is around and when I holler HALP! he will, as always, do what his good self can to help me WHEN I go on and install DS 4.8...59. I already installed the FREE! Genesis 3 Female Essentials and Victoria 7 to the appropriate (for me!) 'runtime'. A DAZ ONLY runtime. I undoubtedly will run into the odd problem or two, but I am dying to see just what this new technology shift brings!
But I will still be a Poser user. ;)
McG.
Yes, lot's of fights in the forums are useless. I am a happy Poser user too. And nobody forces me to decide for either one. Ready for V7? Go get her. Not ready? Relax and wait. Don't let anybody spoil your fun. ;)
Are the people that made the argument before still around?
You also note that I did not make the argument when G1 came out or even when G2 came out.
I just think that not much was done with either of those, so I'm starting to get a bit hesitant on investing in new characters when chances are they will be obsolete a few months later.
Well anyway, so far I'm still around and as I said I'm still giving V7 a chance. But right now I am looking at reinstalling Studio 3 because really for any projects that are more than some "realistic looking" pin-up poster (like for example comic strips or making covers for my novels etc.) genesis is on the one hand too complex , but on the other hand too limited with available accessories. (working on a scene takes too long, rendering it is even worse - so useless for a comic even if there were the necessary props available for the new models which however is also not the case - It was mentioned by some people they like to make their own wardrobe/props, good if you have the time and talent for it - I have neither so this is also rarely an option for me).
@pearbear:
Nice real-life like shape. very cool :)
quote: "Thanks! Here are some turnarounds. Very excited about V7’s ability to put her arms over her head without her shoulders looking like Gumby."
Nice, isn't it?
forearm side/side is unnatural. Try that on yourself, and your bones will break painfully. An ellbow joint is for bending only. BTW: that's, why your forearm has 2 paralell bones. Only both together make it possible to twist the wrist.
no that's not true
I can do all three movements
and G2f could also
and without it its hard to convert her animations to G3f
no, you can't. You are twisting the shoulder instead.
no that's not true
I can do all three movements
and G2f could also
and without it its hard to convert her animations to G3f
If you straighten your elbow out, you'll see that you can't bend it at all from side to side. When your elbow is bent, anything that looks like side to side motion is actually due to your shoulder twisting. That's probably why DAZ now hid the elbow side-side parameter.
But as was mentioned a couple posts ago, if you need to convert G2F poses that have side-side elbow bending you can just unhide and unlock z-rotation on g3f's forearm. The G2F-G3F Pose Converter product (from Zev0 and DraagonStorm) even comes with an "unlock forearm Z-rotate" shortcut button which does exactly this.
ok theres definitely something wrong with the bone names
whats called shoulder here is the upper arm (humerus)
collar is ok
a shoulder bone we do not have in this skeleton
Probably because there isn't actually a shoulder bone in a human skeleton. Humerus is correct for the upper arm bone
Depends on which medical reference you use:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVoPG9HtYF8
.
Depends on which medical reference you use:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVoPG9HtYF8
.
That was excellent, thank you!
pTex is not just polycount-specific, it's mesh-specific. It's a procedural mapping between the polygons of the model and the texture elements, otherwise it wouldn't be transferable without some kind of uv-like mapping. So there would be no way to make a pTex version of a G2F map and applying it to G3F without first making a G2F mapping for g3F - which would then obviate the need to use pTex.
It should be possible to rework the mesh to allow map transfer - the problem would be, at the very least, breaking the overlapping surfaces down so that each resultant surface took only a single map in G2F and G3F - doing that, by what MallenLane posted, might well involve adding new edge loops. That's why there's an expectation that this will require something along the lines of the old UTC making conversions of maps, rather than a simple mapping option in the Surfaces pane.
pTex is not just polycount-specific, it's mesh-specific. It's a procedural mapping between the polygons of the model and the texture elements, otherwise it wouldn't be transferable without some kind of uv-like mapping. So there would be no way to make a pTex version of a G2F map and applying it to G3F without first making a G2F mapping for g3F - which would then obviate the need to use pTex.
It should be possible to rework the mesh to allow map transfer - the problem would be, at the very least, breaking the overlapping surfaces down so that each resultant surface took only a single map in G2F and G3F - doing that, by what MallenLane posted, might well involve adding new edge loops. That's why there's an expectation that this will require something along the lines of the old UTC making conversions of maps, rather than a simple mapping option in the Surfaces pane.
Would it not (in theory at least), be easier to transfer Generation 3 maps (I am meaning old Gen 3, not Genesis 3 here), than the V4 style maps that Genesis and Genesis 2 use. At least with Generation 3 there was just 1 head and 1 body texture. The only area that would cause a problem would be the maps join at the neck.
pTex is not just polycount-specific, it's mesh-specific. It's a procedural mapping between the polygons of the model and the texture elements, otherwise it wouldn't be transferable without some kind of uv-like mapping. So there would be no way to make a pTex version of a G2F map and applying it to G3F without first making a G2F mapping for g3F - which would then obviate the need to use pTex.
It should be possible to rework the mesh to allow map transfer - the problem would be, at the very least, breaking the overlapping surfaces down so that each resultant surface took only a single map in G2F and G3F - doing that, by what MallenLane posted, might well involve adding new edge loops. That's why there's an expectation that this will require something along the lines of the old UTC making conversions of maps, rather than a simple mapping option in the Surfaces pane.
Look, I do understand what Ptex is. That is why it can be used. Essentially, you need a mapping, in the mathematical sense, of on set of polygons to another. Since the two meshes are not the same polycount, you would need to subdivide both meshes until they reached a common number of polygons. At this point you could use another program, such as Blender, to automatically create a set of Genesis 2 UVs to the Genesis 3 figure, or you can create a mathematical mapping of the polygons from one model to the other. You can do this once, find the mapping, and then create a new Ptex files with a reorder polygon mapping, and then export out the textures from the mesh.
Now, is this easy, and something that should be done by the end user? No, but a PA could in fact do this.
Except I'm not sure how the results of such a conversion would look. There's bound to a loss of detail and a general 'smudgieness' when done that way. I never thought that UTC converted maps looked as good as the originals and with higher resolution maps, the loss of detail will probably be worse. Couple that with the fact that normal maps will be a mess afterwards...not sure about the other control maps, but displacement will also suffer some degradation.
You need more advanced interpolation schemes than some trivial bilinear/bicubic algorithm. Luckily on the subject of field interpolation from sparse data there is a huge amount of academic work (e.g. see Kriging). If anybody (third parties or DAZ_people) is interested, I have a lot of references on the subject.
Except I'm not sure how the results of such a conversion would look. There's bound to a loss of detail and a general 'smudgieness' when done that way. I never thought that UTC converted maps looked as good as the originals and with higher resolution maps, the loss of detail will probably be worse. Couple that with the fact that normal maps will be a mess afterwards...not sure about the other control maps, but displacement will also suffer some degradation.
Except, ironically, a lot of the talk here has been about use in games, where the end resolution would be considerably lower than what most people render at.
You need more advanced interpolation schemes than some trivial bilinear/bicubic algorithm. Luckily on the subject of field interpolation from sparse data there is a huge amount of academic work (e.g. see Kriging). If anybody (third parties or DAZ_people) is interested, I have a lot of references on the subject.
It sound interesting. In my job there are people working with kriging for enviromental data. I hadn't use it directly for my work, but it is suppossed that I can read and assimilate about this.
Yup. However, a side to side dial for the forearm would be very welcome in a clothing rig. Sleeves bend to the side very readily. And sometimes you *want* it that way.
Dear Creator of Texture Converter 2,
It looks like you get your old job back with Genesis 3 :D
time to get crakin!
Yup. However, a side to side dial for the forearm would be very welcome in a clothing rig. Sleeves bend to the side very readily. And sometimes you *want* it that way.
Okay, last time!:
You can unhide and unlock the z-rotate dial on G3F's forearm (or her clothing's forearm) if you want to do this.
On G2F, the elbow side to side dial was also locked by default (pose presets that used it unlocked it). The only change with it here in G3F is that it is hidden and now labeled "Z Rotate" instead of "Side-Side". You can unhide it and still use it just the same as before though if you wish. You can even rename it "Side-Side" if you're feeling nostalgic.