Request: Please List Products Used in Promos
Taylor-S-Rose
Posts: 74
Open request to artists: can you please list the products you used in your promo images?
Example: you make a model named Jane Doe for Josephene 8 and use Haydina Hair, Classic Bikini, and Sparkling Jewelry in the promo images.
Would it be possible to actually put IN the notes Haydina Hair, Classic Bikini, and Sparkling Jewelry?
I ask because there are a lot of characters where I want to buy the character AND the hair in the promo, but I can't find the latter.
Here's a good example:
https://www.daz3d.com/samantha-for-genesis-8-female
I have the character. What's the hair? Who knows?
The same goes for hair packages. On a scale of 1-10, I think the model used in the promo image is 12 beautiful.
https://www.daz3d.com/alyssa-ponytail-hair-for-genesis-8-females
What model is it? Who knows? Is it a custom character that doesn't exist anywhere? Is it one that exists on a different site?
It's one of the reasons I love Sabby's stuff over on Renderosity -- 99% of her character models list everything used in the promo images, so I can put together the whole set instead of just a bald, naked morph.
I'm not the only one who would benefit. In the couple of weeks I've been here on the forums I've seen at least a dozen threads to the effect of "can anyone tell me who this model/hair is?"
Just a request from a humble customer. :D
Thank you!
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Comments
One answer from 2020:
"Sadly, because it can be a lot of work, and turn out to be a very long list.
On top of that, not all PAs make their own promo's, some hire other artists to make promos, or they shared their work pre-release with some friends for testing, who might've sent them some awesome render using their product.
Hopefully, the new store will feature some better tools for including details about assets used in promos. I'd even suggest some feature to suggest what assets were used, with an optional viewable list of suspected assets. If the PA could be bothered, he could occasionally look through the list of suspected assets and flag the ones that are correct for inclusion in the "official" promo credits."
One answer from 2018:
"Re: Lighting
Based on the complaints in this thread, just listing the lighting set used wouldn't be nearly enough. A user would need/want to know each setting, which option / preset in set and every parameter used for each light. Not even remotely practical for products with several promos.
I don't get the sense of entitlement some users have. They are paying for the prodcut and the time/skill needed to make same. Anything is a bonus. When's the last time a purchaser saw a list of every item used in the car or house or toaster?"
A creator noted in 2013:
"I don't post attribution for my commercial or hobby work unless I want to promote the product or help people learn. Reason is, I pay for this privilege to use the product, and unless the license specifically states I must do so- in which case I would never buy from that vendor, I do not.
Just as I do not post disclosures on the clipart and photos I use in designing brochures. =-)"
From 2020:
"There's a strong chance that the majority of those products are products for other websites. Most artists are pretty good at listing products in promo images but Daz does not allow the author to list products that are from another website. Usually, if you see a product you want that is not listed in the description, you can probably find it at renderosity."
If you ever submit images to the gallery and have to remember which one of 10,000 assets you might have used, it becomes an incredible chore. Of course, you can't advetise products from other stores so they don't get mentioned, and there are products that are discontinued so they are useless to mention, there are products that aren't really products (there is an early iray hair color set that was created just for the promo in Blender
or the various Mal3imagery characters which are purely Blender creations.
In short, people do their best.
If you look in the freebie forum you'll see there is a competition to create renders with freebie items in them, limiting the content to 5 paid for items. Part of the rules of the competition is that you must list & provide links to every freebie & paid for item. I have found that it is a hugely onerous requirement, and never takes less than twice the time necessary to create the image just to compile the list. I have to confess that it's so onerous that I have not taken part in many recent competitions as the fun is drained out of it by the effort needed to comply.
Can I suggest you take part in one of the image competitions to experience what I mean. It is fun to create the image, but listing everything's source really isn't.
So.. Nice idea. In reality, forget it.
Regards,
Richard.
Gotcha.
Well, request still stands for what it's worth.
At the same time I did not realize how much of a headache it could be to include everything in the notes and understand why some artists choose not to do so.
The DAZ Store seems to mess up too. There's been some G9 characters who've had Gens MATs included but the store listing doesn't mention it in the "What's Included" section. Imagine going through all the trouble of listing everything and DAZ eats up your list.
It's better to ask in the forums or wherever you hang out with other DS users. Someone will usually know because they own the item. It would be nice if the DAZ Galleries actually connected to the store without the use of that extension. (Mostly because I'm usually not on my PC.) Some PAs, like Morris, usually post their product promo renders there.
For products with metadata there is http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/scripting/api_reference/samples/metadata/list_products_used/start
I understand your perspective for the case you describe, but I don't think that absolves PAs from such a simple responsibility in the case of selling their products. But then again, I feel the same about gallery images, too. Of course, it should also be very easy to do for PAs in the store system, and I don't know that it is.
Tim
Hey Taylor-S-Rose, I too wanted to know what the character was, so I emailed the creator, and the reply I got wa that she thinks it is " Osuine character sold at renderosity", but could not be sure, Hope that helps you.
Geordie
Is there somewhere were this simple responsibility is stated as a contractual obligation? Who decides that it is a responsibility? I have a relative who worked in museums; when you see that Da Vinci with the little label saying "Adoration of the Angels, 1505, canvis, oil paints, gold gilt", it is the responsibility of the museum and not Da Vinci to supply that information.
What "responsibility"? You can want that information all you want, but that doesn't mean that PAs are responsible for providing it. As I always say in these discussions, the one and only job of a promo render is to advertise the product being sold. I certainly encourage PAs to list products used, but utterly reject the idea that they have a responsibility to do so, much less that they should be required to (not that you're suggesting it, but others have).
Oh, that was a good idea.
Thank you.
I don't know that I'd say PAs have any responsibility to list the products used in their promos.
I just find it frustrating to see a promo image of, say, a hair asset with a nice model with nice clothes, and have no idea where to find the models or clothes. Though I think I may have been spoiled by Sabby over on Renderosity, who posts full lists of promo assets with all her products. I think she's an exception.
So that's why I posted this request regarding products, here in this product request forum.
Hopefully some PA will read this request and it will compel him/her to list the stuff they use in their promos.
Or they're just as free to list products without detailing the assets.
It's just a request. :)
I have asked for this for years...since 2005!! There are many products here and at Rendo where other products used in the promos are listed! I appreciate that so very much.
It is truly an missed opportunity for the other vendors.
When you download a free product, usually the creator wants you to give credit if the product is used.
I have a few gallery pics here and at Rendo and I definitely try to list all of the products used. I want to acknowledge and show appreciation for both the freebies and paid products. I want to help sell those products. I want the creator to know all of their hard work was not in vain and it is wonderful to use.
I certainly understand Vincent van Gogh not listing all of the products he used! LOL
However, I do a lot of crafts...like furniture painting and stenciling. I belong to a lot of groups that showcase their hard work. I do want to know what type of paint and where they purchased the stencils. Trust me, my work will NEVER look the same :(
Well, there are, indeed, two sides to every coin. Sometimes, I work on a project in DS and have no idea whose shaders I used if I mixed a bunch together...which I do. Sometimes, when playing with morphs, I use so many that I would have to look at "Currently Used" in DS, a function I love!! In the galleries, I state in my comments that I will be glad to open the file in DS and do a print screen of what I used :)
Please know, that when I begin doing my own artwork, that I don't want to just copy the promo from the product. My creative juices start flowing...I start experimenting and my work is my own. I, also, don't want to be accused of copying the other artist.
I was absolutely embarressed seeing two gallery works at another site that looked exactly alike. The first artist was, of course, upset.
So, I am so very thankful to the vendors or promo artists that take the time to list products.
You are right, of course. A promo render is essentially an advertisement. If a restaurant advertises a hamburger on a plate, we don't expect the restaurant to tell us where the plate came from. Maybe someone needs to train an AI to identify all products used in a promo render.
Tim
Okay. I create a promo for a product. All assets, poses, dial setting, light setups, camera settings and shaders except for the ones in the actual product advertised are my own custom ones not available in any store.
Why do you believe I have any responsibility providing them to you?
There's also a bit of a prisoner's dilemma at play here. The effort of identifying and linking to all assets used in promo renders that were made by other PAs won't result in any additional sales of a PA's own products, so there isn't much incentive for any PA to do this; there IS, however, a benefit to other PAs linking to their products, so the best-case scenario for any given PA is that other PAs link to their products, but they don't link to other PAs' products.