DAZ Studio Pro BETA [Project Iradium] - version 4.8.0.4!

Robert Freise · March 2015

MelMaverick said:

Iray requires a 64-bit operating system.
If your computer has that, if may be you didn't download and install all three files. Or they were installed in the wrong order. If all three files are installed, try uninstalling all three and then reinstalling starting with the main DAZ Studio 4.8 Public Build Beta file. Once that is installed, go ahead and install the other two.

ACross,

Thanks for the quick reply. My system is only 32-bit. I had a feeling the answer was going to be something simple. I'm planning to buy a new computer in June. Is it possible to get a rig that will handle Daz smoothly for around $5,000 or less? The computer I have now has been a good machine, but it's been a nightmare running Bryce and Daz on it.

My System
Rosewill BlackHawk-Ultra Full Tower Gaming Computer Case, support up to HPTX MB, Support Dual PSU, come with 8 cooling Fans
ASUS SABERTOOTH 990FX R2.0 AM3+ AMD 990FX + SB950 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
AMD FX 9370 8 core 4.4 Ghz
32 Gb ram
EVGA GeForce GTX 760 SC 4GB GDDR5 w/ EVGA ACX Cooler
Wacom Intuous 5 Touch
Wacom mouse
2 27inch Asus monitors
Logitech Z623 200 w 2.1 Speaker System, THX-Certified
2 blu-ray writers
3 3tb hard drives
Lighted keyboard
Hauppauge 1213 WinTV-HVR-2250 Media Center Kit Dual TV Tuner

Ordered from the parts from Newegg and built it myself for about $3100.00
Reason I built was that way I had total control of what went in it
But you should be able to find an off the shelf unit for no more or less

NW316 · March 2015

First Iray render. Needed to composite in the background as I haven't figured out the skydome requirements for Iray yet. Took over 3 hrs to render.

glaseye · March 2015

Khory said:
UberSurface, HSS, AoA SSS… how well do these common shaders convert automatically?

All of those load properly for the most part as does LIE. Some of them will need surface tweaking though.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, or something not installed right, but when I load a 4.7 scene in 4.8beta that uses Ubersurfacxe2, or apply ubersurface 2 on a material in the beta, it doesn't work right, settings, and their effects, disappear
attached 2 images
1 base shader setting on a primitive in 4.8
2 Ubersurface2 applied

Anyone else having this problem?

MBusch · March 2015

glaseye2 said:
Khory said:
UberSurface, HSS, AoA SSS… how well do these common shaders convert automatically?

All of those load properly for the most part as does LIE. Some of them will need surface tweaking though.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, or something not installed right, but when I load a 4.7 scene in 4.8beta that uses Ubersurfacxe2, or apply ubersurface 2 on a material in the beta, it doesn't work right, settings, and their effects, disappear
attached 2 images
1 base shader setting on a primitive in 4.8
2 Ubersurface2 applied

Anyone else having this problem?

Probably you need reinstall Ubersurface 2 to work with the Beta.

Barubary · March 2015

SpottedKitty said:
ccbn213 said:
As you can see, the light works but the Historical Masonary shaders do not (in photoreal).

This is something we're all going to have to watch out for. Those Historical Masonry shaders might look great (just installed the first set myself) but — they're custom 3Delight shaders. They won't ever work in Iray, and nothing short of a total rebuild to take advantage of native Iray features will make them work.

but - at the core of most of those shader packs, there's just a bunch of tiling textures with their respective bump / displacement / specular / normal maps. If Iray can render tiling surfaces at all you can still take advantage of those.

Never had a problem using those products in LuxRender anyway.

Richard Haseltine · March 2015

glaseye2 said:
Khory said:
UberSurface, HSS, AoA SSS… how well do these common shaders convert automatically?

All of those load properly for the most part as does LIE. Some of them will need surface tweaking though.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, or something not installed right, but when I load a 4.7 scene in 4.8beta that uses Ubersurfacxe2, or apply ubersurface 2 on a material in the beta, it doesn't work right, settings, and their effects, disappear
attached 2 images
1 base shader setting on a primitive in 4.8
2 Ubersurface2 applied

Anyone else having this problem?

If this is the first time you've had a public beta installed you will need to reinstall plug-ins and shaders so that the necessary files are in the application folder.

glaseye · March 2015

Thanks, will try that......

Minevera_MacDougal · March 2015

So I've tried the beta out for a while now and it mostly operates the same. However I have only been able to make one render using the Iray engine. What I have been noticing a lot is even though I have both GPUs selected it wants to only use one (my secondary). Sometimes it defaults to the CPU even when that is not selected at all. I have tried this with SLI disabled and it will still do this to me. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

CPU= Intel Core i5 2400 @ 3.10GHz Sandy Bridge 32nm Technology
RAM= 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 824MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard= ASUSTeK Computer INC. P8P67 DELUXE (LGA1155)
Graphics= 1279MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 (EVGA) *2

DAZ_Spooky · March 2015

rednec0 said:
So I've tried the beta out for a while now and it mostly operates the same. However I have only been able to make one render using the Iray engine. What I have been noticing a lot is even though I have both GPUs selected it wants to only use one (my secondary). Sometimes it defaults to the CPU even when that is not selected at all. I have tried this with SLI disabled and it will still do this to me. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
CPU= Intel Core i5 2400 @ 3.10GHz Sandy Bridge 32nm Technology
RAM= 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 824MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard= ASUSTeK Computer INC. P8P67 DELUXE (LGA1155)
Graphics= 1279MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 (EVGA) *2

A GTX 570 has (typically) 1.25 GB of dedicated Video RAM, and because of that, you will usually go right through that and drop to CPU.

Minevera_MacDougal · March 2015

DAZ_Spooky said:
A GTX 570 has (typically) 1.25 GB of dedicated Video RAM, and because of that, you will usually go right through that and drop to CPU.

Shoot, well that justifies investing in at least a Quadro GPU then. I was beginning to think that was the case.

mtl1 · March 2015

I was in the process of building an i7-4790 rig when the DAZ beta released and now I'm wondering whether my original choice of a 750 Ti would be sufficient for renders (or if using CPU-mode would actually be faster)?

I mean, I could go for a 760, but it's a little out of my price range at the moment. o_O

DAZ_Spooky · March 2015

mtl1 said:
I was in the process of building an i7-4790 rig when the DAZ beta released and now I'm wondering whether my original choice of a 750 Ti would be sufficient for renders (or if using CPU-mode would actually be faster)?
I mean, I could go for a 760, but it's a little out of my price range at the moment. o_O

IIRC the 750TI does not have 4GB of RAM, which is what we are recommending, based on our testing. The GT740 has a 4GB model and comes in at around $100. It isn't as powerful as the 750 or 760 but typical scenes will fit on it. (If you don't go crazy with the sub-d and don't optimize, for example using texture atlas, roughly 3-4 figures and an environment fit onto a 4GB card.)

Remember if it doesn't fit on the card, the card is not used. So even if you buy a K6000, or a TitanX and you build a scene that takes more than 12GB of Video RAM, you will be rendering CPU only.

ZarconDeeGrissom · March 2015

DAZ_Spooky said:
mtl1 said:
I was in the process of building an i7-4790 rig when the DAZ beta released and now I'm wondering whether my original choice of a 750 Ti would be sufficient for renders (or if using CPU-mode would actually be faster)?
I mean, I could go for a 760, but it's a little out of my price range at the moment. o_O

IIRC the 750TI does not have 4GB of RAM, which is what we are recommending, based on our testing. The GT740 has a 4GB model and comes in at around $100. It isn't as powerful as the 750 or 760 but typical scenes will fit on it. (If you don't go crazy with the sub-d and don't optimize, for example using texture atlas, roughly 3-4 figures and an environment fit onto a 4GB card.)

Remember if it doesn't fit on the card, the card is not used. So even if you buy a K6000, or a TitanX and you build a scene that takes more than 12GB of Video RAM, you will be rendering CPU only.
I have an honest question there based on My past experiences. If I have a scene that combined with windows7 64bit (yes Daz Studio as well), and NOTHING else running. And that scene consumes almost all of 16GB of RAM in the computer (or 32GB in my most recent experience), How will a 4GB video card ever be of use?

Are the scenes some how compressed before going to the graphics card? What is a reasonable limit in system ram, to make sure the scene runs on the GPU?

mtl1 · March 2015

DAZ_Spooky said:
mtl1 said:
I was in the process of building an i7-4790 rig when the DAZ beta released and now I'm wondering whether my original choice of a 750 Ti would be sufficient for renders (or if using CPU-mode would actually be faster)?
I mean, I could go for a 760, but it's a little out of my price range at the moment. o_O

IIRC the 750TI does not have 4GB of RAM, which is what we are recommending, based on our testing. The GT740 has a 4GB model and comes in at around $100. It isn't as powerful as the 750 or 760 but typical scenes will fit on it. (If you don't go crazy with the sub-d and don't optimize, for example using texture atlas, roughly 3-4 figures and an environment fit onto a 4GB card.)

Remember if it doesn't fit on the card, the card is not used. So even if you buy a K6000, or a TitanX and you build a scene that takes more than 12GB of Video RAM, you will be rendering CPU only.

Thank you for the 740 suggestion! Has anyone compiled a list of benchmarks with their scenes yet? I'm still curious on the CPU-only versus GPU render times. If the difference isn't too high, then I might end up waiting for prices to come down again since the 740 is now a couple of generations old.

(I'm buying the i7 regardless, since it's doubling as a simulation/other work stuff rig)

DAZ_Spooky · March 2015

zarcondeegrissom said:
DAZ_Spooky said:
mtl1 said:
I was in the process of building an i7-4790 rig when the DAZ beta released and now I'm wondering whether my original choice of a 750 Ti would be sufficient for renders (or if using CPU-mode would actually be faster)?
I mean, I could go for a 760, but it's a little out of my price range at the moment. o_O
IIRC the 750TI does not have 4GB of RAM, which is what we are recommending, based on our testing. The GT740 has a 4GB model and comes in at around $100. It isn't as powerful as the 750 or 760 but typical scenes will fit on it. (If you don't go crazy with the sub-d and don't optimize, for example using texture atlas, roughly 3-4 figures and an environment fit onto a 4GB card.)
Remember if it doesn't fit on the card, the card is not used. So even if you buy a K6000, or a TitanX and you build a scene that takes more than 12GB of Video RAM, you will be rendering CPU only.

I have an honest question there based on My past experiences. If I have a scene that combined with windows7 64bit (yes Daz Studio as well), and NOTHING else running. And that scene consumes almost all of 16GB of RAM in the computer (or 32GB in my most recent experience), How will a 4GB video card ever be of use?

Are the scenes some how compressed before going to the graphics card?Oh you can definitely blow out the Video Ram regardless of the card. I have, for example, blown out a K6000 (with 12GB of RAM). It is not typical though. LOL.

The question, at that point, is do you simplify the scene, render in layers and composite or render CPU only.

We do, by default, have some texture compression (NVIDIA's Recommendation) on, and you can change those settings. You can also optimize things using instancing and/or texture atlas, but you can never prevent, completely, going through the Video RAM.

DAZ_Spooky · March 2015

mtl1 said:
DAZ_Spooky said:
mtl1 said:
I was in the process of building an i7-4790 rig when the DAZ beta released and now I'm wondering whether my original choice of a 750 Ti would be sufficient for renders (or if using CPU-mode would actually be faster)?
I mean, I could go for a 760, but it's a little out of my price range at the moment. o_O
IIRC the 750TI does not have 4GB of RAM, which is what we are recommending, based on our testing. The GT740 has a 4GB model and comes in at around $100. It isn't as powerful as the 750 or 760 but typical scenes will fit on it. (If you don't go crazy with the sub-d and don't optimize, for example using texture atlas, roughly 3-4 figures and an environment fit onto a 4GB card.)
Remember if it doesn't fit on the card, the card is not used. So even if you buy a K6000, or a TitanX and you build a scene that takes more than 12GB of Video RAM, you will be rendering CPU only.

Thank you for the 740 suggestion! Has anyone compiled a list of benchmarks with their scenes yet? I'm still curious on the CPU-only versus GPU render times. If the difference isn't too high, then I might end up waiting for prices to come down again since the 740 is now a couple of generations old.

(I'm buying the i7 regardless, since it's doubling as a simulation/other work stuff rig)

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/53771/

mtl1 · March 2015

DAZ_Spooky said:
mtl1 said:
DAZ_Spooky said:
mtl1 said:
I was in the process of building an i7-4790 rig when the DAZ beta released and now I'm wondering whether my original choice of a 750 Ti would be sufficient for renders (or if using CPU-mode would actually be faster)?
I mean, I could go for a 760, but it's a little out of my price range at the moment. o_O
IIRC the 750TI does not have 4GB of RAM, which is what we are recommending, based on our testing. The GT740 has a 4GB model and comes in at around $100. It isn't as powerful as the 750 or 760 but typical scenes will fit on it. (If you don't go crazy with the sub-d and don't optimize, for example using texture atlas, roughly 3-4 figures and an environment fit onto a 4GB card.)
Remember if it doesn't fit on the card, the card is not used. So even if you buy a K6000, or a TitanX and you build a scene that takes more than 12GB of Video RAM, you will be rendering CPU only.

Thank you for the 740 suggestion! Has anyone compiled a list of benchmarks with their scenes yet? I'm still curious on the CPU-only versus GPU render times. If the difference isn't too high, then I might end up waiting for prices to come down again since the 740 is now a couple of generations old.

(I'm buying the i7 regardless, since it's doubling as a simulation/other work stuff rig)

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/53771/

Thank you!! :)

Havos · March 2015

I am also curious to known how much of a typical scene's RAM usage in building it will need to be transferred over to the video card for the GPU render. Clearly meshes need to be, as does the texture maps, but I assume the huge amount of memory needed to hold the information to be able to morph and/or pose a figure would not be needed. I say this because a fully dressed genesis 1/2 figure consumes about 1 GB of memory when loaded, although converting the whole lot to a prop reduces that to about 200 MB or so. So if 800MB was needed for all the posing and morphing stuff, then I assume this 800MB will not get transferred to the video card for rendering? I mean why would the renderer need that info?

DAZ_Spooky · March 2015

Havos said:
I am also curious to known how much of a typical scene's RAM usage in building it will need to be transferred over to the video card for the GPU render. Clearly meshes need to be, as does the texture maps, but I assume the huge amount of memory needed to hold the information to be able to morph and/or pose a figure would not be needed. I say this because a fully dressed genesis 1/2 figure consumes about 1 GB of memory when loaded, although converting the whole lot to a prop reduces that to about 200 MB or so. So if 800MB was needed for all the posing and morphing stuff, then I assume this 800MB will not get transferred to the video card for rendering? I mean why would the renderer need that info?

Yes, though you do need the SubD'd mesh, not the base mesh.

Havos · March 2015

DAZ_Spooky said:
Havos said:
I am also curious to known how much of a typical scene's RAM usage in building it will need to be transferred over to the video card for the GPU render. Clearly meshes need to be, as does the texture maps, but I assume the huge amount of memory needed to hold the information to be able to morph and/or pose a figure would not be needed. I say this because a fully dressed genesis 1/2 figure consumes about 1 GB of memory when loaded, although converting the whole lot to a prop reduces that to about 200 MB or so. So if 800MB was needed for all the posing and morphing stuff, then I assume this 800MB will not get transferred to the video card for rendering? I mean why would the renderer need that info?

Yes, though you do need the SubD'd mesh, not the base mesh.

ok, thanks for the confirmation. So hopefully this means that background characters can be left at the base mesh resolution (since there would be little advantage applying subd to them), so will not consume too much of the precious video memory.

DAZ_Spooky · March 2015

Havos said:
DAZ_Spooky said:
Havos said:
I am also curious to known how much of a typical scene's RAM usage in building it will need to be transferred over to the video card for the GPU render. Clearly meshes need to be, as does the texture maps, but I assume the huge amount of memory needed to hold the information to be able to morph and/or pose a figure would not be needed. I say this because a fully dressed genesis 1/2 figure consumes about 1 GB of memory when loaded, although converting the whole lot to a prop reduces that to about 200 MB or so. So if 800MB was needed for all the posing and morphing stuff, then I assume this 800MB will not get transferred to the video card for rendering? I mean why would the renderer need that info?

Yes, though you do need the SubD'd mesh, not the base mesh.

ok, thanks for the confirmation. So hopefully this means that background characters can be left at the base mesh resolution (since there would be little advantage applying subd to them), so will not consume too much of the precious video memory.Note that Iray will handling Instancing, not to the same degree as Carrara, but it does do instancing. :)

MelMaverick · March 2015

I'm probably not the best person to answer this question, but I'll forge ahead anyway. :)
I'm running both DS 4.7 and DS 4.8 Beta on an off-the-shelf HP Envy with integrated graphics. Only 16GB of RAM, too. That said, renders can be slow. Especially with Iray. But the computer can handle it. Here are the specs:

HP Envy 700-327c
Intel i7-4770 3.40GHz
16GB RAM (Maximum for this motherboard)
Win7Pro x64 OS
Integrated Intel HD Graphics (Set to "Quality" for 3D)
Power Supply: Internal 300W (100V-240V)
(One PCI Express x16 slot (Gen 3.0) for upgrading video card)

DAZ is talking to Nvidia about getting DAZ customers a break on Nvidia cards. Details haven't been disclosed, and it may not happen. But you have plenty of time to wait them out.

And if you have $5K to invest, you will end up with a very nice, and fast, system. Just be sure and get advice from the great guys and gals here on what exactly you need. I know I will when the time comes to upgrade my computer.

My System
Rosewill BlackHawk-Ultra Full Tower Gaming Computer Case, support up to HPTX MB, Support Dual PSU, come with 8 cooling Fans
ASUS SABERTOOTH 990FX R2.0 AM3+ AMD 990FX + SB950 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
AMD FX 9370 8 core 4.4 Ghz
32 Gb ram
EVGA GeForce GTX 760 SC 4GB GDDR5 w/ EVGA ACX Cooler
Wacom Intuous 5 Touch
Wacom mouse
2 27inch Asus monitors
Logitech Z623 200 w 2.1 Speaker System, THX-Certified
2 blu-ray writers
3 3tb hard drives
Lighted keyboard
Hauppauge 1213 WinTV-HVR-2250 Media Center Kit Dual TV Tuner

Ordered from the parts from Newegg and built it myself for about $3100.00
Reason I built was that way I had total control of what went in it
But you should be able to find an off the shelf unit for no more or less

ACross and Robert,

Thank you both very much. This gives me a point of departure.

Scotsprincess · March 2015

I noticed that some people were having problems with fireflies so I worked on that angle as I checked my core speeds and temps. This scene was done with no Iray shaders, one photometric point light (using an IES light) and rendered in scene only. I find that running the dome when not using it actually adds a good hour or more to my render time. When I leave the settings on default in progressive rendering a whole slew of fireflies appear and seem to breed copiously! LOL With just this slight adjustment in rendering quality and converged ratio the problem was solved. I even stopped the render early since no more of those pesky things were visible. My leopard had enough spots without adding more.

Rogerbee · March 2015

Guys, can someone check something for me? In 3Delight in 4.8, does having progressive rendering on speed up renders? In DS4.7, I did a scene with Gia and my usual light set, with progressive rendering off it took 8m 30s and with it on it took 1m 30s with no noticeable drop in quality. A couple of my friends have 4.8 and they told me that progressive rendering slowed down their times with 3Delight. Surely that isn't right? Why would the same function have the opposite effect?

Can anyone else with 4.8 test 3Delight with progressive on and off and tell me what they notice?

CHEERS!

Richard Haseltine · March 2015

Progressive render can be faster than standard with complex scenes, but slower with less complex. It depends on your lighting and models.

Mustakettu85 · March 2015

Rogerbee said:
A couple of my friends have 4.8 and they told me that progressive rendering slowed down their times with 3Delight. Surely that isn't right? Why would the same function have the opposite effect?

The most complete guide would be this (with the right shaders, 3Delight does path tracing in the same module aka "hider" that gets called for the "progressive" option; the REYES is the default hider DS uses) :
https://3delight.atlassian.net/wiki/display/3DFM/Pros+and+Cons+of+Path+Tracing+vs+REYES

-----------

I'm sorry if this has been discussed already, but since the thread is huge and I don't know of a "search this thread" function...

In 4.8, Shader Builder has preprocessor issues for all shader types save for surface shaders (gives the "can't find source file" error when trying to compile). Is it just my machine, is it being addressed as we speak, or do I have to file a bug report?

Cliff Bowman · March 2015

Mustakettu85 said:
I'm sorry if this has been discussed already, but since the thread is huge and I don't know of a "search this thread" function...

Google is probably the closest thing you have to a friend there - try Googling:

can’t find source file site:http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/53671/

and you'll see not much of relevance in this thread :(

Cheers,

Cliff

Rogerbee · March 2015

Thanks guys!

It speeds up what I throw at it so that'll do me!

CHEERS!

Kerya · March 2015

Excuse me ... just to help my poor brain - but could we close this thread and go on in the new one
DAZ Studio Pro BETA [Project Iradium] - version 4.8.0.9!
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/54058/P150

Trying to catch up in two (three with the Iray tips and tricks) is a bit hard for me ... Please?

Rogerbee · March 2015

Not a bad idea, but, I just went through that thread and my poor brain couldn't understand a word anyone was saying! Oh well, I subscribed in case I see something I recognise.

CHEERS!

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