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I didn't even see it mentioned anywhere that it would be in there to download. I saw a few mentions that the bases are print ready, but no explanation why or how to go about getting them. Nevertheless, thank you for the free update.
So I do have a question about the 3D printing.
We are allowed to use DAZ models to render images and print them on paper for commercial purposes.
But we are not allowed to use DAZ models to print a 3D figure for commercial purposes.
Why not?
A short simple answer is that, in commercial situations, you may do what is agreed to but there is no assumption that you can do things outside the agreement. The EULA that we all agreed to with Daz3D allows the renders to be used commercially but that doesn't mean that anything you do with the product can be used in a commercial sense. For example, you can't sell something you bought from DAZ3d like software to a third party even though you bought it because part of the agreement was that you can't sell it to a third party. An analogy is buying a piece of music; you buy it with the permission to listen to it by yourself or with others. If you try to use the music commercially, you will be sued since that was' part of the agreement.
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...OK, a little confused here.
Let's say that Custom 3D Printing at Daz is up and running. I'd like to have a figure of my favourite little mechanical lady, Aikobot Maria (Aiko 3) to have on my desk. I set up the character and the pose I want her in. OK now, I don't have 3DS, Autodesk 123, or ZBursh because I cannot afford them. My modelling skill is next to nowhere so using a more basic modelling programme to "seal" the mesh is out of the question. So, will that process be covered in the cost of the custom printing?
Short answer: I think so.
Longer answer: Aiko 3 isn't Genesis 2 figure. Genesis 2 figures are printable right now. Keiko is Genesis 2, and many people say she is Aiko 3. So Keiko should be printable.
More Questions: My question is how they handle the clothing and watertighting it to the figures. I don't know. Is it just genesis 2 clothing that can print, or will they print genesis and generation 4 clothing? I don't know.
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I think that is stretching it just a tad :lol:
commercial use very obviously means mass producing or reselling tangible models as in die cast, 3D printed etc
a film is like a render not a solid model so putting your figurine in a film is obviously not breaching the EULA any more than using a render chromakeyed or composited in and probably less practical anyway.
A sword modeled to look like a DAZ sword would probably be more easily machined or even forged with renders as references anyway than 3D printed, not a practical means for making weapons or props, cosplayers copy game weapons all the time the old fashioned way by visual reference and assembling from hotwire cut styrofoam, tin plate, plastic, leather whatever, some use more sophisticated means other cut out cardboard but amounts to the same thing really and hard to say is any particular copyrighed weapon or not unless has a unique logo or something.
Honestly I do not yet know what kind of quality can be achieved with 3D prints anyway. It is one thing to create a small 3d figurine. It may be quite another challenge to create a life sized replica of a prop. The DAZ Rose though allready looks very promising!
I can however confirm that it is quite a challenge to get hiqh quality film props in Europe or Switzerland so people tend to get creative.
I am under the impression though that you could get away with 3d prints for props used by "extras" in the background that are not shown in close ups.
Looking forward to watching more behind the scene videos of the 3D printing by DAZ to get a better understanding what is possible. :coolsmile:
So my questions.. I saw in the DAZ Store that there are pre posed humans and one dragon.
1) Can we send DAZ a pose file that we prefer the character to be in or are the ones in the store sold just as they are?
2) What about non DAZ figures like Dusk or Dawn?
3) What about morphs that are non DAZ standards (like my Bruno morphs), can those be applied to the Gen 2 figure, dress and pose the figure and then uploaded to the DAZ3D servers to order or is that out of the question for now?
Seems like a great idea to have your own creations sitting on your physical desktop! Neat!
Yup. I guess you export your figure as an OBJ, so you should be able to apply just anything, but I'm no expert, so I'm sitting it through until DAZ gives us a tutorial on printing on your own. The shipping fees from Buffalo to Europe would kill me - and remember exchange rates too.
They have said that there will be a section for custom models to be printed, but it is coming later in the year. I guess we will get the details once it is enabled, so we will just have to wait till then, rather than indulging in all sorts of speculation.
Great. Thanks to the both of you! :-)
They have said that there will be a section for custom models to be printed, but it is coming later in the year. I guess we will get the details once it is enabled, so we will just have to wait till then, rather than indulging in all sorts of speculation.
While I agree that there's no use in speculation, getting the questions out there isn't necessarily a bad thing. People may have questions that DAZ hasn't thought of. We just have to remember that the answers aren't available yet.
I know they don't regularly come into the forums, but they have posted in several threads about the 3d printing, and they may keep an eye on them going forward.
...well Aikobot Maria is not so much "clothing" as she is more of an A3 character morph and skin similar to say, Sylfie (who I wouldn't mind having a figure of either). Gen3 skins will not transfer to Genesis (as they all use a "default" UV set) at least not without a lot of work
involving TC2 and even then it's not totally perfect. The Aikobot Maria character is incompatible with Kieko.
Also would love the original Droid and Joe Bot, neither of which are Genesis based.
Looking at the promo images of the models available at the moment, I can't say I'm that impressed with the quality, particularly Lee and Mei Lin - but I think that is because the figures are small and the sandstone effect at that scale means that some definition is lost. I hope that DAZ will offer custom-printed models in a larger scale (I reckon 15cm tall or more if you want real detail) but I reckon that will be expensive. On the Internet, it seems to cost around $150 upwards for that sort of size model. The project is potentially very exciting, though, and personally I'd be willing to pay for quality.
Interesting. Right now I do not have the space for a 3d printer but how big is a 3d printer? Are they fragile? Does the 3d printer paint the models or do I have to paint them myself?
It depends on the model and type as there are many choices out there.
Most of the lower-end consumer printers are fairly small. The specs for one of the DaVinci models says that it is 18" x 20" x 22" with a print size of 7.8" x 7.8" x 7.48. There are some models out there that are smaller (and less capable) and the high-end consumer printers can be much larger.
When you get into the professional printers, they can get much larger. One printer was listed as 76" x 30" x 57" for the largest model. This is similar to the ones used by Shapeways and WhiteCloud to print the full-color sandstone models. And the scientists at Oak Ridge National Laboratory used a really large printer to printer a full-sized replica of a 1965 Shelby Cobra. (That's not even mentioning the Chinese who demonstrated a construction printer by printing a 5-story apartment building).
Returning to the consumer models, most of the printers used what's called fused filament deposition i.e. they melt a thin plastic filament and use the melted plastic to build the model in layers. Most printers can only print with one filament (and thus one color) at a time though some of the higher end consumer models can use 2-4 different filaments at a time.
That means generally, you would have to paint the resulting model if you have a consumer 3D printer.
As for the fragility of the printer, it depends on the printer. Some printers have their working parts fully enclosed and are about as robust as a typically ink-jet printer. Others have metal (sometime wood) frames, but have all of the working parts exposed to the environment.
I think because you are entering the realm of manufacturing. Once you start making physical objects, the fact that you are 3d printing is irrelevant. There's no difference in the eyes of the law between you printing and selling a DAZ figurine without a licence and making an selling an iPhone without a licence. (note: not a lawyer etc).
Point is, just because you've got a digital file of something, doesn't mean you can build and sell a physical version.
Maybe Daz will come out with a commercial 3d print licence - rather like the game dev licenses that have started to appear...
Reselling of custom 3D prints created by DAZ
1) Someone orders a 3D print of a replica of a sword sold in the DAZ store and pays $59.95. Can that person resell that sword for 200$ in a shop that sells fantasy articles?
2) Someone orders 100 3d prints of a replica of a sword sold in the DAZ store and pays $59.95 per item = 5995$. Can that person resell those 100 swords for 100$ per piece = 10'000$ and make a profit of 4'005$ on that transaction?
Once DAZ has received money for the 3d print can the user do whatever he wants with it?
Or
Is it recommended that for each custom 3d print order the customer has to indicate for what purposes the 3d print is used and the price varies depending on the intended use?
- - -
In general a list with a lot of practical examples what is considered commercial use and what is personal use would help me better understand.
From what I understand of first sale yes, if you buy a physical item you get to resell that same item for whatever you want. What you can't do is duplicate it. IE, if you buy a music CD you can sell that physical CD for whatever you can get for it, you can't make copies of it and sell those. Same with books. Digital media (the meshes and textures) are not physical items which is why they are licensed rather than sold. If DAZ boxed them up and sold them on a disc, you would be able to sell the box and disc to someone else under right of first sale, again you would not be able to make copies.
So if you paid $60 a piece for 100 copies of an item you would be able to sell those copies without violating copyright laws.
Where it gets more complicated is that you might be able to sell the box with the Daz3D software in it but you can't legally sell the license that makes it active. That is nontransferable. Likewise, you would need some sort of commercial license to sell 3d printed figures of Daz3D licensed characters much like one needs to have a licensing deal with Disney to sell toys with Mickey Mouse on it.
The original question though is whether you could sell an item you paid DAZ to print. It's up to DAZ to ensure it has the rights to print that item, but once it sells it to you, you have a right to resell that physical item. You don't need a licensing deal with Disney to sell a Mickey Mouse phone you bought at a Disney store for example. You do need a license to produce and sell Mickey Mouse phones.
Yes, the question of producing and selling items is complicated, that is separate from buying and reselling an item.
Agreed you do have the right to sell a single Mickey Mouse phone to someone else but the situation changes when you try to become a vendor or reseller in volume. In the United States, at least, the licensing comes into play at that point. Likewise, you play a song in your house, no problem, but if you decide to play that song regularly through your business, ASCAP comes and says you have to pay a royalty since it is now a "performance" of a licensed work.
Of course it would. 100% totally fair.
Exactly as fair as if an artist uses a $10 store model for a $2 million advertising campaign.
A 3D print is not a one-time sale to someone else who is going to then produce a many copies of it, any more than a 2D print is.
3d model -> illustrator with a "paper" printer in his basement -> print hanging in a booth in an art fair.
3d model -> digital sculptor with a 3d printer in his basement -> 3d print sitting on a table in an booth in an art fair.
or
3d model -> illustrator -> 200 prints sold off a website for $100 each.
3d model -> sculptor -> 200 little statues sold off a website for $100 each.
Same orders of magnitude of money, same sort of distribution, same sort of customers. Yes, sometimes the money is very imbalanced. Some artist might get $50,000 for an original painting and $1,000 each for signed and numbered prints, while another may make all of $10 from the very same $10 model. Just like one sculptor may get $50,000 for the original marble and $1,000 each for a run of bronzes, while another artist manages to get $10 out of a small clay figure.
How do you get that it's OK to take a 3D model and produce: wall art, an animated feature, greeting cards, a TV commercial, a comic book, a tee shirt, a mug, an engraving, a character merged into a photograph, a 3D (stereo glasses) movie, a billboard, etc, but it's not OK to take a 3D model and produce tabletop art, Christmas ornaments, collectable dolls, a mug (important example, we'll come back to mugs), a statue, a topiary figure.
If I were a novelty item distributor, and you came to me and told me you had a property licensed for "flat" wall art, but not for "3d art", I'd escort you out the front door, and move on to the next dealer, hoping to find someone with some trace of competence. You're not Disney, licensing a billion dollar property on a case by case business. Photographers used to believe that even small one-man shops could license case-by-case, which is why that entire industry has pretty much collapsed when you compare how it is today to 20 years ago.
For that matter, how do you define "3D printing" to begin with? Ever see a relief sculpture? (If you're not familiar, Google it now, because this is going to make the whole conversation make sense, and pretty much totally explode the misconception that a "3D print" and "regular print" aren't both just "prints"). At what point does a print become 3D?
You license a drawing for a greeting card, and someone sets up a silk screen with raised ink in the figure's hair. Is it "3D" yet?
How about if they use 6 layers of thermographic printing? 3D now? You can build up the raised surface an 1/8 inch that way. What if they add fuzzy flocking?
What if they make dies and emboss it? That could have 1/4 inch deep detail on an 18 inch paper print, and even deeper in foil. 3D? A gallery will hang it on the wall right alongside the lithographs, serigraphs, etc, because "prints are prints".
What if someone carves their version of Han Solo in the carbonite, 1/2 inch thick on a 6 inch slab. 3D? How about if they carve deeper. Where's the threshold for 3D? An inch thick? 2 inches?
At what point is it officially "3D"? Who even cares? The gallery owner? The novelty distributor selling collectables in 1000 piece lots? The advertising customer? You better have an all-inclusive license to deal with those.
And even if it is 3D, at what point is it a "different" form of artwork that needs a different licensing model, because trust me, for every contrived example you can come up with about how a piece of art is "definitely" 2D, I can counter with a "3D" example operating with a similar (if not identical) business model, distribution chain, and profit potential.
Music isn't a physical item. What you are licensing is performance rights. The closest example is a store, it buys the Mickey Mouse phones in volume from Disney, then can sell those phones They don't need licensing rights to do that. Disney can set conditions for selling the phones of course, but unless specific conditions are set before hand (Fair Trade Law would be an example of that), the store is able to sell those phones to whomever at whatever price they can get .
I still thing the hard thing to work out is how to license 3D reproduction, the same way that problems came up in using geometry in games development That basically is performance rights.
Of course there is. The first is copyright law, the second is patent law.
The company that makes the Mickey Mouse phones needs the license. In this model, Daz3D is Disney, the purchaser of the 3d asset is the equivalent of the company making the phone, and the store selling the figure or phone is the one who doesn't need the license. It seems boring and silly that individuals who set them selves as small companies have to follow the rules of a small company but it is the reality. All of this is premature since Daz3d hasn't even discussed commercial licensing yet.
I assume this is about 3d models gotten at daz not models made with daz software like hexagon or Carrara (assuming that they are original works created.)
That's essentially correct, assuming that said item hasn't been textured or otherwise treated using something purchased from DAZ.
The difference is that DAZ and other Poser-type products are intentionally sold for the purpose of creating art, whereas the value of a MM phone lies in the underlying value of the MM IP itself. Let's face it, the number of people who'd actually buy and wear a V6 T-shirt is incredibly limited... DAZ actually did produce some Aiko and Hiro shirts back during the Gen 3 days, and I understand that most of them were given away rather than sold. The way the new EULA is written is essentially the equivalent of an art supply store saying "We'll sell you some paint, but you can only use it on canvas or paper, and if we catch you painting a chair with it, we won't sell you any more pigments." I don't think that's what they really intended, as in the long run that will just drive everyone over to other art stores, but companies have been known to do some incredibly foolish things in the past with the best of intentions.