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EULA With 3D Print License?

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  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 13,349
    edited February 2015

    I haven't thoroughly digested the new EULA yet but from the "Print Your Own" page it looks like we can only print for personal use and unlike 2D prints we can't sell the figurines.

    Genesis 2 provides characters that are 3D print-ready. This means that you can simply morph, pose and print them on any 3D printer. Many other assets in the DAZ 3D store will also work for 3D printing, depending on what technologies or services you are using to print them. As you will see in the End User License Agreement, assets purchased from DAZ 3D may be used to 3D print for personal use but not for resale or other business uses. More information on that will come throughout 2015.
    Post edited by Charlie Judge on
  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,896
    edited December 1969

    Hmmm.... I just read the new EULA, and see reference to 3D printing only in the section covering the case where you've purchased a “Game Develoer License” (nice typo btw... :roll:)
    So you need to purchase a game developper licence to use 3D printing?
    Because if that's the case you really, really need to make that obvious on the new 3D Print page, because right now it seems like it's ok with the regular licence....

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,896
    edited December 1969

    Charlie Judge said:
    I haven't thoroughly digested the new EULA yet but from the "Print Your Own" page it looks like we can only print for personal use and unlike 2D prints we can't sell the figurines. Yup, it's private use only, even in the EULA:
    The creation of three-dimensional physical representations (3D-print, molded copy, CNC-routed copy, and the like) of Content or any three-dimensional art derived from the Content is permitted only for personal, non-commercial use by the User. Additionally, the user may not grant other entities or individuals the right to produce such physical representations of the Content except for the sole purpose of providing the print to the User for their personal use.
  • Charlie JudgeCharlie Judge Posts: 13,349
    edited December 1969

    Leana said:
    Charlie Judge said:
    I haven't thoroughly digested the new EULA yet but from the "Print Your Own" page it looks like we can only print for personal use and unlike 2D prints we can't sell the figurines. Yup, it's private use only, even in the EULA:
    The creation of three-dimensional physical representations (3D-print, molded copy, CNC-routed copy, and the like) of Content or any three-dimensional art derived from the Content is permitted only for personal, non-commercial use by the User. Additionally, the user may not grant other entities or individuals the right to produce such physical representations of the Content except for the sole purpose of providing the print to the User for their personal use.

    Personally, I'm not much interested in making a 3D print just for my personal use. It would be nice if DAZ would consider permitting commercial use even if it required purchase of an additional license similar to the Game Developers license.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,896
    edited December 1969

    They say " More information on that will come throughout 2015" on the 3D print page, so they probably have plans for this.

    I'd really like clarification on whether or not you need to purchase the game developper licence for 3D printing though...

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 9,444
    edited February 2015

    Leana said:
    Charlie Judge said:
    I haven't thoroughly digested the new EULA yet but from the "Print Your Own" page it looks like we can only print for personal use and unlike 2D prints we can't sell the figurines. Yup, it's private use only, even in the EULA:
    The creation of three-dimensional physical representations (3D-print, molded copy, CNC-routed copy, and the like) of Content or any three-dimensional art derived from the Content is permitted only for personal, non-commercial use by the User. Additionally, the user may not grant other entities or individuals the right to produce such physical representations of the Content except for the sole purpose of providing the print to the User for their personal use.

    Trust DAZ to get it bass-ackwards. Unless they amend the commercial restrictions to mass reproductions, not one offs, they're going to have to hire a full time team to police the net and every craft fair in the world. As it is, they're effectively giving themselves an economically unenforceable restriction, while at the same time handing a huge potential business off to another figure producer. And the icing on the cake is trying to get into a manufacturing process at the same time, which is going to end up costing them an arm and a leg in redos unless they 're farming the work out to an established company that already has the bugs worked out of their system.

    Seriously, I sometimes wonder if DAZ doesn't actually start each meeting with the phrase "Hey, how can we shoot ourselves in the foot THIS week?"

    Post edited by Cybersox on
  • DAZ_KevinDAZ_Kevin Posts: 2,420
    edited December 1969

    You do not need the Game Developer License for Personal Non-Commercial 3d Printing.

    Leana said:
    They say " More information on that will come throughout 2015" on the 3D print page, so they probably have plans for this.

    I'd really like clarification on whether or not you need to purchase the game developper licence for 3D printing though...

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,847
    edited December 1969

    Cybersox13 said:

    Trust DAZ to get it bass-ackwards. Unless they amend the commercial restrictions to mass reproductions, not one offs, they're going to have to hire a full time team to police the net and every craft fair in the world. As it is, they're effectively giving themselves an economically unenforceable restriction, while at the same time handing a huge potential business off to another figure producer. And the icing on the cake is trying to get into a manufacturing process at the same time, which is going to end up costing them an arm and a leg in redos unless they 're farming the work out to an established company that already has the bugs worked out of their system.

    Seriously, I sometimes wonder if DAZ doesn't actually start each meeting with the phrase "Hey, how can we shoot ourselves in the foot THIS week?"

    I have to agree.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Kevin said:
    You do not need the Game Developer License for Personal Non-Commercial 3d Printing.

    Leana said:
    They say " More information on that will come throughout 2015" on the 3D print page, so they probably have plans for this.

    I'd really like clarification on whether or not you need to purchase the game developper licence for 3D printing though...

    Thank you for clarifying this :-)

  • Nick_1939Nick_1939 Posts: 37
    edited February 2015

    Hello!
    Confused about the EULA agreement with DAZ, I am not interested in 3D model printing but I am interested in knowing if I would be able to use a model commercially in a 2d print? Other words 2d renders of 3d models for commercial printing. Thanks!

    Post edited by Nick_1939 on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,992
    edited December 1969

    Tazz1 said:
    Hello!
    Confused about the EULA agreement with DAZ, I am not interested in 3D model printing but I am interested in knowing if I would be able to use a model commercially in a 2d print? Thanks!

    Yes, as long as it isn't a direct render of a texture file or a way to get around the 3D limits (a series of layers to laminate together to make a 3D model, for example) you can generally sell 2D prints and animations. The main exception is the Anne Marie Goddard Digital Clone, as noted on the product page.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,896
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Kevin said:
    You do not need the Game Developer License for Personal Non-Commercial 3d Printing.
    Thanks for the clarification. I see it in the standard part of the EULA too now. Not sure if I was too tired when I read this or if it was updated, but I'm glad the licence is not required.
  • Nick_1939Nick_1939 Posts: 37
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    Tazz1 said:
    Hello!
    Confused about the EULA agreement with DAZ, I am not interested in 3D model printing but I am interested in knowing if I would be able to use a model commercially in a 2d print? Thanks!

    Yes, as long as it isn't a direct render of a texture file or a way to get around the 3D limits (a series of layers to laminate together to make a 3D model, for example) you can generally sell 2D prints and animations. The main exception is the Anne Marie Goddard Digital Clone, as noted on the product page.


    So the Model's original texture (Skin) would have to be altered? Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks! Richard.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,896
    edited February 2015

    Tazz1 said:
    So the Model's original texture (Skin) would have to be altered? Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks! Richard.
    No, what Richard means is that you can't for example create a plane primitive, put a texture from a product on it and hit render, and then distribute or sell that render, because you're basically just making a full copy of the texture.
    You can definitely sell a render of a model with a skin texture you purchased here without modifiying the skin.
    Post edited by Leana on
  • 01i01i Posts: 20
    edited December 1969

    "assets purchased from DAZ 3D may be used to 3D print for personal use but not for resale or other business uses. More information on that will come throughout 2015."

    I would assume that any form of commercial use 3d printing license would be held back until Daz have their own commercial 3d printing system up and running.

    However, does the quote on the 3D print page mean that a commercial license is coming during 2015, we just have to wait for it?

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    edited December 1969

    I'm looking forward to reading the new EULA tonight.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 9,444
    edited December 1969

    01i said:
    "assets purchased from DAZ 3D may be used to 3D print for personal use but not for resale or other business uses. More information on that will come throughout 2015."

    I would assume that any form of commercial use 3d printing license would be held back until Daz have their own commercial 3d printing system up and running.

    However, does the quote on the 3D print page mean that a commercial license is coming during 2015, we just have to wait for it?

    They really have to do something this year if they want any chance of succeeding. As it is, the price on 3D printers is going to continue to plummet as turntable tech drives the price of entry level units down into the $200 range and more units begin to integrate 3D scanners, so the majority of the market for serving hobbyists is only going to exist for a few years. After that the only profitable section of the market is going to be for the high end, large scale and high volume services... the latter of which will all go to places like Taiwan (where DAZ's EULA restrictions are already pretty pointless.)

  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 2,531
    edited December 1969

    Just use MakeHuman and screw the "pay us money to print this out on your own printer" crap.

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,885
    edited December 1969

    ghastlycomic said:
    Just use MakeHuman and screw the "pay us money to print this out on your own printer" crap.

    They've clarified (including in the EULA) that personal use printing doesn't require an extra license. And I'm betting a commercial license is in the works.

  • AprilYSHAprilYSH Posts: 1,522
    edited December 1969

    DaWaterRat said:
    I'm betting a commercial license is in the works.

    yeah those business to business agreements must be making a few lawyers' lunches (and dinners) these past months!

  • knuckledusterharris_b01188de76knuckledusterharris_b01188de76 Posts: 93
    edited December 1969

    I'm rigging a figure I sculpted on my own in Zbrush, so I will be bidding a fond adieu to Genesis.

  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 2,531
    edited December 1969

    3D Printing right now is at the same stage 2D printing was in the 60s with the first dot matrix printers that cost tens of thousands of dollars. Now a days you can get a full colour laser printer for under $200 that will print dozens of pages per minute.

    I fully expect 3D Printing will progress at a rate much faster than 2D printing did.

    Well' probably have fully automated assembling 3D printers in 20 years capable of autonomously reproducing themselves using just hoppers full of different powdered raw materials.

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    edited December 1969

    ghastlycomic said:
    3D Printing right now is at the same stage 2D printing was in the 60s with the first dot matrix printers that cost tens of thousands of dollars. Now a days you can get a full colour laser printer for under $200 that will print dozens of pages per minute.

    I fully expect 3D Printing will progress at a rate much faster than 2D printing did.

    Well' probably have fully automated assembling 3D printers in 20 years capable of autonomously reproducing themselves using just hoppers full of different powdered raw materials.

    then sky net is next!
  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 9,444
    edited December 1969

    ghastlycomic said:
    3D Printing right now is at the same stage 2D printing was in the 60s with the first dot matrix printers that cost tens of thousands of dollars. Now a days you can get a full colour laser printer for under $200 that will print dozens of pages per minute.

    I fully expect 3D Printing will progress at a rate much faster than 2D printing did.

    Well' probably have fully automated assembling 3D printers in 20 years capable of autonomously reproducing themselves using just hoppers full of different powdered raw materials.


    Not powders. That's the cheap way to do it for now, but for any kind of real structural strength you need laminates and fibers. We've already seen the introduction of low cost computerized wirebending systems, so similar systems designed for handling sheet metal, fiberglass, etc. are inevitable.
  • ms_artms_art Posts: 25
    edited December 1969

    Greetings, All.

    This is my first time posting to the forum, but I've spent a significant amount of money in the Daz store (so much so that I was sent the 3d printed Victoria in Action).

    The reason that I'm posting now is to let everyone know that 1) the figure arrived broken (one of her arms holding a gun broke off) and 2) the fact that Daz is changing the EULA to compete with its customers wanting to print 3D products commercially (or claiming that the arcane wording has always prevented 3D printing for commercial purposes) makes it extremely unlikely that I will continue to purchase from Daz.

    Hopefully the PAs who will no longer benefit from customers like myself will be able to convince the decision makers that this makes poor business sense.

    I'm also *slightly* displeased that in order to access my product library which includes thousands of dollars of products that I have PAID for, I have to accept this new EULA. Really, Daz?

    I apologize for the rant, but it's disappointing because since discovering Daz, I've always looked forward to the emails about new products and sales and now it pains me to see items that I would normally purchase, but instead now pass on. I just really don't feel any desire to support Daz right now (and unfortunately, by default, that includes the great PAs that sell their work through Daz).

    Maybe that will change in the future, but then again, who knows, maybe Daz will change its EULA again to prohibit people from selling 2D products without a license too (including, of course, items that they've paid for previously).

    *Disappointed*

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    edited December 1969

    kfont246 said:
    Greetings, All.

    This is my first time posting to the forum, but I've spent a significant amount of money in the Daz store (so much so that I was sent the 3d printed Victoria in Action).

    The reason that I'm posting now is to let everyone know that 1) the figure arrived broken (one of her arms holding a gun broke off) and 2) the fact that Daz is changing the EULA to compete with its customers wanting to print 3D products commercially (or claiming that the arcane wording has always prevented 3D printing for commercial purposes) makes it extremely unlikely that I will continue to purchase from Daz.

    Hopefully the PAs who will no longer benefit from customers like myself will be able to convince the decision makers that this makes poor business sense.

    I'm also *slightly* displeased that in order to access my product library which includes thousands of dollars of products that I have PAID for, I have to accept this new EULA. Really, Daz?

    I apologize for the rant, but it's disappointing because since discovering Daz, I've always looked forward to the emails about new products and sales and now it pains me to see items that I would normally purchase, but instead now pass on. I just really don't feel any desire to support Daz right now (and unfortunately, by default, that includes the great PAs that sell their work through Daz).

    Maybe that will change in the future, but then again, who knows, maybe Daz will change its EULA again to prohibit people from selling 2D products without a license too (including, of course, items that they've paid for previously).

    *Disappointed*

    At the present moment in time 3D printing is for personal use only. They have said that other variants are coming later.

    As to accepting the EULA, it used to be that you had to accept it every time you ran a DAZ 3D installer for a product. Now you only have to accept it when there is any change in the wording, which is much easier.

  • 01i01i Posts: 20
    edited February 2015

    kfont246 said:
    *snip*

    You do realise that this EULA change has not actually taken anything away right? We've never had permission to 3d print for any purposes before, commercial or otherwise. We've 'gained' permission to print for personal use. Not specifically mentioning 3d printing in the old EULA was not the same as allowing it. IMO we're now one step closer to commercial-use printing, not further away.

    At the present moment in time 3D printing is for personal use only. They have said that other variants are coming later.

    Is that an official acknowledgement that commercial licenses 'are' coming? Or just the same assumptions that we've been hoping for.

    Post edited by 01i on
  • ms_artms_art Posts: 25
    edited December 1969

    01i said:

    You do realise that this EULA change has not actually taken anything away right? We've never had permission to 3d print for any purposes before, commercial or otherwise. We've 'gained' permission to print for personal use. Not specifically mentioning 3d printing in the old EULA was not the same as allowing it. IMO we're now one step closer to commercial-use printing, not further away.

    You do realize that 3d printing is in a nascent stage and just becoming available for the general public, right? In other words, it wasn't specifically mentioned because it wasn't an issue. So from Daz's reaction to this new technology essentially means that any future technological advances will also be restricted by Daz in the same way.

    Kind of makes investing in Daz products seem like a bad long term move if this is the strategy that they're going to take on these new developments. Just my opinion of course...

  • 01i01i Posts: 20
    edited February 2015

    kfont246 said:
    01i said:

    You do realise that this EULA change has not actually taken anything away right? We've never had permission to 3d print for any purposes before, commercial or otherwise. We've 'gained' permission to print for personal use. Not specifically mentioning 3d printing in the old EULA was not the same as allowing it. IMO we're now one step closer to commercial-use printing, not further away.

    You do realize that 3d printing is in a nascent stage and just becoming available for the general public, right? In other words, it wasn't specifically mentioned because it wasn't an issue. So from Daz's reaction to this new technology essentially means that any future technological advances will also be restricted by Daz in the same way.

    Kind of makes investing in Daz products seem like a bad long term move if this is the strategy that they're going to take on these new developments. Just my opinion of course...

    I'd say that modifying agreements in order to prevent 3d printing is going to be a pretty standard strategy in general, when it comes to 3d models, regardless of where you get the models from.

    If you were to buy a miniature figurine, mould it, cast it, and then start selling the duplicates you'd get taken to court. Nobody expects you to be able to buy something and then mould it for sale.

    3d printing someone else's model is no different. The only difference is that there seems to be an attitude that because model files are digital, and 3d printing is a new technology, that it's perfectly fine to replicate other peoples work and make money from it (not saying that you specifically hold this attitude just that it's prevalent).

    If anything, I'd say that the mere hint that a commercial 3d printing license in on the cards, puts Daz in a very positive position, that I suspect will be unusual. Of course, with all that said, I wish they'd hurry up and let us know how much the commercial license is going to cost, and when it'll be available.

    Post edited by 01i on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,992
    edited December 1969

    kfont246 said:
    01i said:

    You do realise that this EULA change has not actually taken anything away right? We've never had permission to 3d print for any purposes before, commercial or otherwise. We've 'gained' permission to print for personal use. Not specifically mentioning 3d printing in the old EULA was not the same as allowing it. IMO we're now one step closer to commercial-use printing, not further away.

    You do realize that 3d printing is in a nascent stage and just becoming available for the general public, right? In other words, it wasn't specifically mentioned because it wasn't an issue. So from Daz's reaction to this new technology essentially means that any future technological advances will also be restricted by Daz in the same way.

    Kind of makes investing in Daz products seem like a bad long term move if this is the strategy that they're going to take on these new developments. Just my opinion of course...

    It is always true that a license grants you rights, and if some new possibility opens up (such as 3D printing) you don't have the right to use it unless and until the license is revised, as it now has been. It doesn't apply to DAZ only but to any content supplier.

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