EULA With 3D Print License?

ms_art

@ 01i - Good points that you make. I would argue that because of the unique creations that you can make due to the morphs, you should be able to profit from them. That said, hopefully for Daz and the PAs, most people will agree with you. :o)

@Richard - True, but as others on this thread have pointed out - some of Daz's competitors have chosen a different route. Again, in my opinion, the route that Daz is taking with this alienates customers. It's totally possible that I'm in the minority, but it has definitely made me more cautious as far as current and future purchases from Daz.

Hopefully I'll change my mind as I would hate to say goodbye to the great/fun products sold in the store--especially Raiya's absolutely beautiful creations! :o)

Cheers, All! And happy creating!

knuckledusterharris_b01188de76

By making a DAZ figure with an open license (even if they charged a couple hundred bucks for it) would give them a tremendous opportunity to sell clothing and accessories. I think this is a very short-sighted strategy for them.
Sooner or later, someone will do exactly that, and then where will they be? Surely their artists aren't the only ones who can sculpt and rig a figure.

Cybersox

The railroad companies didn't get into the car and bus industry because it was competition for their existing business. The shipping companies didn't invest in airlines. Xerox invented the mouse and the graphic interface, but never entered the home computer market. Polaroid failed to move to digital cameras. Ampex invented the video cassette recorder, but never got into the consumer VCR business. That didn't stop any of those innovations from happening.

So, if DAZ doesn't make 3D printing practical for the typical consumer, someone else will eventually take that market.... which, in this day and age, most likely means somebody financed via Kickstarter, who most of us have even heard of yet.

ms_art

Well, I'm glad that I'm not alone in thinking the way that I do about this.

It just seems unreasonable to expect people to pay $30 for new Gen2 models that seem to be coming out pretty regularly + hair + wardrobe + props etc and now + a forthcoming 3d commercial license. It seems pretty clear that if you want to 3d print for commercial purposes, you will buy a few basic pieces and come up with creative ways to change the look of those few pieces.

So how does this make money for Daz and the PAs in the long run? Hopefully they've done the benefit/cost analysis and factored in the loss of revenue from customers only purchasing the bare necessities because of this...

01i

I do wish they'd hurry up and make a commercial license. But having subscribed to this thread, I must say I'm amazed at the number of people, who seem to think that it's reasonable to make money from someone else's intellectual property, without needing to purchase a license that grants them permission to do so.

hacsart

Cybersox13 said:

The railroad companies didn't get into the car and bus industry because it was competition for their existing business.

Heh - actually a lot of railroads ran (and some still do, think GO Transit) bus lines and in some cases water shipping and ferry services as well... and in one case (Canadian Pacific) an airline and an express trucking service as well, although as separate divisions.. I can remember my rail-issued employee pass being accepted on CP Air when I was traveling on company business...

But we digress....

knuckledusterharris_b01188de76

01i said:

I do wish they'd hurry up and make a commercial license. But having subscribed to this thread, I must say I'm amazed at the number of people, who seem to think that it's reasonable to make money from someone else's intellectual property, without needing to purchase a license that grants them permission to do so.

I for one would be willing to pay for a license--I'd pay a lot for a blanket license that would allow me to use a few key figures as the basis for commercial sculpts--the problem is, there is no license available. It's been taken completely off the table.
Oh well, I'm putting the finishing touches on the rigging and weight maps for my own figure--it's not as good as Genesis by any stretch of the imagination, but it will work for my purposes. I'm a sculptor who needed to man up and learn to rig anyway--this just gave me the push I needed.

Storyteller

gump1 said:

01i said:

I do wish they'd hurry up and make a commercial license. But having subscribed to this thread, I must say I'm amazed at the number of people, who seem to think that it's reasonable to make money from someone else's intellectual property, without needing to purchase a license that grants them permission to do so.

I for one would be willing to pay for a license--I'd pay a lot for a blanket license that would allow me to use a few key figures as the basis for commercial sculpts--the problem is, there is no license available. It's been taken completely off the table.
Oh well, I'm putting the finishing touches on the rigging and weight maps for my own figure--it's not as good as Genesis by any stretch of the imagination, but it will work for my purposes. I'm a sculptor who needed to man up and learn to rig anyway--this just gave me the push I needed.

this seems to be the way to go, creating ones own figures outright.

Silver Dolphin

If you want to make money with 3D printing there are great open-source alternatives out there. Using Blender and Make Human you have somewhere to start. Make a Model for closed printing and fashion it the way you want. If you need more detail hire someone talented to make textures, clothes and accessories for you if you don't want to do the work or don't have the talent or patience to do it. Daz owns these products and if you want to make money make your own! If you can't find an artist go to the local community college and recruit one. Students always need money and you can feel good knowing you contributed to their education. - Just my 2cents

wiz

01i said:

I do wish they'd hurry up and make a commercial license. But having subscribed to this thread, I must say I'm amazed at the number of people, who seem to think that it's reasonable to make money from someone else's intellectual property, without needing to purchase a license that grants them permission to do so.

I'm curious how, in your "reasonable" world, the existing license is:

* fine for an print maker who manages to sell 200 prints off a website for $100 each, but not for a carver who sells 200 little statues off a similar website for the same $100 each.

* fine for a painter who uses a 2D illustration for the basis of a $50,000 painting, but not for a sculptor who uses it as the basis for a $50,000 statue.

* fine for a beginner who manages to get $20 for an illustration here or there, but not for a beginner who manages to get $20 for a figurine here or there.

Any market niche you can name for 2D: from wall art ranging from $50-$5,000, to an animated feature, greeting cards, a TV commercial, a comic book, a tee shirt, a mug, an engraving, a character merged into a photograph, a 3D (stereo glasses) movie, or a 50 foot billboard, every last one of them has a parallel example as 3D.

3D isn't a bigger revenue stream than 2D, not is it a substantially different one. As I've already shown several times, there's even a lot of examples (bas relief, silhouettes, embossing, etc) where you can't even clearly define the result as 2D or 3D.

So, so you think DAZ is going to offer each product with your choice of a 2D or a 3D license, at the same price (because the markets are so parallel)? Isn't it totally unfair to demand the 2D license fee up front, force every artist to pay it even if they're only making 3D art? Explain how that is "reasonable"? Why is a "2D rendering" worth less than a "3D rendering"?

FSMCDesigns

Silver Dolphin said:

If you want to make money with 3D printing there are great open-source alternatives out there. Using Blender and Make Human you have somewhere to start. Make a Model for closed printing and fashion it the way you want. If you need more detail hire someone talented to make textures, clothes and accessories for you if you don't want to do the work or don't have the talent or patience to do it. Daz owns these products and if you want to make money make your own! If you can't find an artist go to the local community college and recruit one. Students always need money and you can feel good knowing you contributed to their education. - Just my 2cents

\

Couldn't agree more. Couple of weeks ago i found out a buddy of mine had access to a quality 3D printer and I loaded up a couple of original models (vehicles) in 3DSMax i had worked on before that i thought would be cool as a test run. It took a little work to get them manifold and a few trial runs, but 2 of them printed up really nice and i could really see a market and how it could be beneficial to sell these.

With the quality of DAZ models, it makes sense for less than talented modelers to want to use them for printing quality commercial 3D figurines, but they are DAZ property and they did the majority of the work, so they should be compensated for it as well. Hopefully a commercial license will come, but I venture a guess it will probably be costly and out of most users reach.

wiz

FSMCDesigns said:

With the quality of DAZ models, it makes sense for less than talented modelers to want to use them for printing quality commercial 3D figurines,
I'm assuming you mean "less talented" modelers, not "less than talented". It's not always an issue of talent. I model better than 90% of what I buy, but I buy a lot of stuff, mainly because "I can't afford me" for a lot of my projects, that is, the dollar value of my time exceeds the income from a particular model. If there's something generic and useful, it's an easy decision.

However, the larger issue is that you don't use these existing models for "printing quality commercial 3D figurines". They're poorly suited for that purpose. Sculpting is an entirely different art, knowing how to master tricks like

* adding a little extra thickness to ankles and shins (or wrists and forearms) so that they don't break as easily, while still making the figure look proportioned and graceful. Knowing the difference between what parts of a figure are under compressive loading, and what parts are under tension.

* knowing which details will show at a particular scale in a particular medium (whether it's bronze, cold cast marble, slip cast porcelain, wood carving, 3D printing via sintering, UV cuing, or hot laydown) and which won't, and how to compensate by exaggerating other details or distracting.

Right now, a lot of people who don't collect figurines or have any experience assessing their quality are oohing and aahing over those free gifts. Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but that thing is unsellable. It's a novelty, a dancing bear. Cool for about 5 minutes, and then you want to watch (or do) some real dancing. I look at that figure and see a dozen things that need to be changed to make it castable, and some of t

FSMCDesigns said:

but they are DAZ property and they did the majority of the work, so they should be compensated for it as well.

They are being compensated. Did you read my response to 01i, right above your post? There is little difference in the variety of uses or the potential revenue streams between "2D" and "3D" art. In fact, if there's a difference, at all, it's that 2D represents a potentially greater revenue stream. But I doubt DAZ is going to offer a discount on models bought only for 3D use (the correct response to a reduced revenue stream) nor are they going to come up with some insane scheme to purchase figures as 2D, 3D, or both. The days of specialized licensing are long past, and this attempt to resurrect them is, quite frankly, silly.

Hopefully a commercial license will come, but I venture a guess it will probably be costly and out of most users reach.
Initially, it will be. Then the 3D modeling distributors that tried this and discovered that it hurt the bottom line will rethink and simply allow unlimited 3D printing, just like they currently allow unlimited 2D printing, because from the end customer point of view, stuff is stuff.