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I'm not sure I understood all that. So are you saying that body morphing V6 to be like another figure would lack...may not have as smoothly blended hips/breasts, and would lack any bone or JCM adjustments that the "real" character figure has?
This is a crude analogy, but this is how I've always looked at it:
Joint controlled morphs are basically morphs that automatically kick in when a figure is moved a certain way. Think of it is as if the figure was a mannequin made of foam rubber and you were trying to bend one of the arms. If you do that with a real like piece of foam with nothing inside, it will curve gradually in an arc, so you have the rigging that takes the place of bones and keeps eveything from flexing except where you want it. However, it's still just foam and it's going form unnatural creases and bulges the more you bend it, and since this is digital foam, areas that collide will overlap. So the designer has to create a set of JCMs that create a natural looking crease and point of contact on the inside while maintaining the proper elbow shape on the outside. Every DAZ figure has hundreds of these JCMs running in the background The problem is that the shapes that a JCM creates have to be relatively specific to create a naturalistic look, so the more generic you try to make them, the less effective they become. So as you change the shape of the actual figure, there's generally a range in which they work really well, a range in which they work okay and a point where it looks like you're folding a piece of rubber instead of skin. So there comes a point, especially when you're doing things like changing the basic proportions of the body and lengthening or shortening the "bones" underneath, where things just stop looking right. (This is something you really notice when you start transferring shapes from Gen4 to Genesis and Genesis to the G2s.) So every Genesis and G2F figure, and many of the more advanced character sets (like Smay's Stalker Girl), needs a number of additional jcms added on top of the base figure's.
Hi jasonk,
I use DAZ for the same purpose you described in the original post. I've used all of the non-toon, DAZ original figures and a few by PAs. By far, Olympia + the morph sets have served this purpose the best. I've made her tall and thin (not grotesquely skinny, just thin), short and thick, petite, imposing, and changed her face into dozens and dozens of completely different characters. In the final works, I don't think anyone would say "Did you use the same model for reference?". They look like completely different people. However, most of this is going to fall on you when you're drawing, shading and highlighting. Generally, I think this happens quite naturally. I don't try to re-create the reference images, I use them for reference. Unless you're drawing is extremely rigid, they won't all look the same. After an initial sketch, the first thing I do is look at it without looking at the reference picture. I always make tons of adjustments, tweaks and fixes before I move on to color. Even at this secondary sketch phase, they rarely look much like the model.
On a related note, Victoria 6 is one seriously skinny woman. I don't find her to be versatile at all. There's a lot of talk here about UV maps and skins. I rarely change these. When I decide on skin tone, I tend to either create them from my own personal preferences or use photos from the internet.
In the end, you'll just have to try it and see. However, don't even try using DAZ without the face and body morphs. It will give you the impression that the tool is extremely limited, which is very far from the truth.
Good luck.
Jim
..Vicky 6, "skinny", with those boobs, hips and that bum?
Crikey, then Giselle must be Daz's "Twiggy". ;-)
I was referring more to the toothpick arms, pencil legs and neck you could snap with two fingers. :) Seriously though, to me, Victoria looks comical holding a weapon.
I see Giselle as more of a toon figure. I think Twiggy could kick her butt. :)
It's cool that DAZ has so much variety available. Everyone can find something they like.
...well, Giselle is Daz's basic "fantasy fey" figure and with the right bit of morphing, she can look rather convincing. She actually works very well as a base for elven characters (which is why there needs to be a male counterpart).
When you get down to it., none of the Daz figures are truly "realistic" particularly "out of the box" without resorting to some morphing.
I tend to spend a lot of time and effort on morphing. Actually built a decent child character from buxom ol' 5'11" Vicky 4 several years ago with the aid of a Thorne character shape that allowed for dialing down the breasts without the mesh collapsing . Had to scale all limb sections and torso areas independently from each other to get the right physique (clothing fits back then were a PITA as I couldn't use K3 clothing since I didn't have that Crossdresser licence). At the time, K4 as still about 2 years away.
Funny, I stumbled into DAZ3D for similar reasons about 6 months ago. I had purchased some art manikins to get some active poses worked out and when I was searching for more realistic ones I somehow ended up here.
I know use the physical ones for rough mockups for my 3D figures and that has helped a lot. I can also play with a couple of desk lamps for quick shadow placement and then rig lights in DAZ.
I personally like Gia for a lot of fantasy and Medieval renders and things like Pathfinder and D&D characters for friends. All of this makes sketching way easier for me as I was never good at figure art before now. Guess I still am bad, but this just lets me CHEAT better, LoL!
Lilith is finding its way into some work as well, especially for the "Evil Queen" type stuff and I virtually always use the body morphs I have from dozens of models and morph packs. Consider using some morphs AFTER you pose the figure to get just what you want. You may be very surprised how well that works to flesh out or reduce a joint, bend or special look.
Another option to consider that works well for me is to do several renders of different models and morphs and basically zoom in close for detail. I make a full body render with the best pose and morphed looked and then if an ankle and foot is a bit off, put another model in that pose or use another morph. Who cares about the rest of the body or how it looks. Then I just use whatever reference I want for my final art.
That's really cool. It's also a good illustration of how much effect the morphs can have on a base figure. I spend a lot of time morphing as well. When I first starting using DAZ, I didn't understand what the morphs were for. I found the whole experience really frustrating as my "reference" images didn't really serve much of a purpose. Now, morphing is about making the model represent the type of character I'm going to draw. So, to over-simplify, things like longer legs and shorter torso for a "bad girl", sorceress type, or a larger head for a "good girl". For my style, Olympia was a breath through. I used to spend a lot of time trying to bulk Victoria up. Now, I'm more likely to slim Olympia down (a little). I like the results a lot better as she appears to have more mass and not look frail, if that makes sense.
Cool. Would you be willing to post an example? I'd love to see how different people use DAZ for drawing reference.
Cool. Would you be willing to post an example? I'd love to see how different people use DAZ for drawing reference.
These are my first renders I have shared... They are character concepts that are being finalized and will get dropped into a common scene.
Poses here will be changed and of course there is no lighting.
We have Anastasia the 19 year old princess who likes to be called Anarchy and is a Swashbuckler type.
We have Ivan her Dwarven bodyguard, even though she needs none.
Hunter, Ana's brother is the Crown Prince, but spends most of his time in the forest around the castle performing his Druidic arts.
We have Merelias, the Halfling, a Cavalier and soon to be standard bearer.
Theo the childhood friend of Ivan, the Minotaur fighter.
Three more belong to this group but are still in process. They are all in scale to each other, though the test renders don't really show that, except for some body proportions and morphs. I believe every single figure has morphs. It was interesting to get the weapons and clothes and hair and looks that each player required of their character.
Those are all really cool. I particularly like the Minotaur. So, then you use these renders as reference for drawings?
It's interesting. Most of my renders don't look anywhere near that finished. In fact, half of my renders have some kind of grid for textures that I use in the sketching phase. I'd be very curious to see one of the finished drawings to see how you interpret the render.
Cool. Would you be willing to post an example? I'd love to see how different people use DAZ for drawing reference.
Thought I'd put up a link to this tutorial... I haven't tried it, but it seems like several of you might find it useful:
http://www.daz3d.com/daz-studio-as-an-artists-tool-reference-for-lineart
Weight mapping is a method to define which parts of the mesh should flex and by how much. Currently weight mapping can not be changed like UV mapping, it is set during the rigging stage. Rigging is adjustable only in the sense that the 'bones' can stretch or shrink in order to stay in sync with the mesh, if you lengthen the legs the rigging needs to lengthen also. If all you want to do is use the figure for reference you can just use the basic textures that come with the Starter Essentials or you could even just set different color for the materials and not bother with textures at all. If you really want realism pick up some anatomy books for artist, with a way to simulate muscles inside the mesh you are only going to get an approximation from any figure made for DAZ Studio or Poser.
@Jestmart: That is really helpful explanation of weight mapping.
Thanks Scott, that looks good. Added to my WL for now.
It's interesting. Most of my renders don't look anywhere near that finished. In fact, half of my renders have some kind of grid for textures that I use in the sketching phase. I'd be very curious to see one of the finished drawings to see how you interpret the render.
Those will actually be used in a 3D scene of the group in their favorite tavern.
I tend to pose figures in action stances and with some expression to convey a bit of their backstory. Organic/human shapes have been really hard for me to draw, as my mind just works differently with hard shapes and vector type art. I have done some silhouette type art that turned out very well, but I have a project where I need more definition. I am still playing with shaders and post work too, to see if maybe I can just use the render/post work to create what is needed.