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Thanks Diomede! That looks like a very straightforward walkthrough to how it's done, will try to get some time to test later on tonight. I have no reason to believe the low poly proxy won't work fine as the hair source, but testing will show me whether I'm right or wrong My instinct is that this will provide a universal solution for all figure types to share hair (knock on wood!)
The link I gave you uses the genesis 2 female as the target. Just replace the regular genesis (1) at each step.
The video tutorials you have already released are excellent. I can't wait to see what you do with this. If you need a similar envelope for V4, there is already one posted on sharecg.by PhilW.
http://www.sharecg.com/v/51666/related/5/3D-Model/Lo-Res-V4-Proxy-Figure
Thanks, Phil.
Man, I'm doing something very wrong, can't figure out what exactly. I'm able to follow the steps opening up the low poly object in Studio4 and making it conform to the Genesis1 with no problems at all. But when I save as a wearable preset, when I load it in Carrara it doesn't load the low poly as a conforming clothing, but instead loads a whole new Genesis as the conforming clothing to the existing Genesis in the scene (at first I thought it was doing nothing, but when I undid the 'fit to' in Carrara and scaled it up I could see it was an exact duplicate of my Genesis1 in the scene, not the low poly mesh at all).
I also tried saving it as a cr2 file from Studio as a conforming clothing item with the Poser runtime directory (which is my preferred solution actually if I can get this to work somehow) but while it seems to save, and there is something there, when I load this item, it is completely invisible in my scene and has no mesh, also it's scaled really really weirdly. I'm starting to run in circles, and I'm sure I'm doing something wrong here, so stepping back from the computer for a bit to ask for help and guidance...
Watched a few more vids and figured out most of my problem - I didn't realize I had to export the .obj out of Daz studio again, I thought when I exported the CR2 file that as long as I pointed it to the original .obj geometry file that was all that was needed. Exported the .obj file into it's own Poser runtime, then exported the cr2 file and now I have a conformable clothing that is 99% workable and loads onto Genesis ready to run. The sole exception is somehow or other it seems to have deleted the hip section (not the bones, but the mesh/polys). Not a big deal in general, because most hairstyles won't be so long as to touch the waist, but if I wanted a super long 'hair-down-to-her-butt' hairstyle I'd still need a butt for it to collide against. Not sure why the hip section is suddenly MIA when I load it up as conforming clothing, obviously I'm still doing something wrong during the export from Studio...
Jonstark, thank you for this awesome tutorial!
Gotta say it... I Love You, Man! :ahhh:
I'm not sure, but it sounds to me that within Studio, the bodysuit may have been treated like the base figure and the genesis treated as the wearable preset. If so, there is an easy fix. Just make sure at the step when you do SAVE AS : WEARABLE PRESET the genesis figure is selected, not the bodysuit (might seem counterintuitive). Daz Studio will be looking for things conforming to Genesis and then create a list of items that can be treated as wearable presets. That way, you could save out a pair of shoes, pants, and a shirt as one wearable preset instead of just the left shoe, then just the right shoe, then just the pants, then just the shirt.
- I loaded the default genesis in Carrara.
- I used vertex modeling in the assembly room to create an envelope for the genesis figure.
- I saved the base for later use.
- I rescaled the suit to 1.042%
- I exported the suit as an obj with the Poser style format checked.
- In Studio, I loaded the default Genesis. I imported my exported bodysuit and made sure that it fit over genesis
- I selected the bodysuit, then chose EDIT : Object : Transfer Utility
- Source is the genesis, target is the bodysuit obj.
- Daz Studio then transforms the bodysuit obj to a conforming figure with multiple bodyparts
- ** with genesis selected,** I used save as wearable preset.
- save the preset either to the default My DAZ3D Library subfolders or to a custom location
- In Carrara, I refreshed the wearable preset folder in the browser and loaded the converted bodysuit figure.
- In Carrara, I loaded genesis
- In Carrara, i selected the appropriate level of the bodysuit and used “fit to” to apply the bodysuit to the Genesis.
- I morphed the genesis to V5 and applied a pose. The bodysuit morphed and posed as well
I will take a couple of posts and post some screenshots
More screen shots
yet more screenshots
Thanks, Diomede! That was exactly the problem, I falsely assumed the bodsuit envelope was what should be selected, not the Genesis. Just gave it a 2nd try and it now seems to save as a wearable preset just fine. I'll have to test to see if I get any weird stuff when doing the hair sims. I was able to earlier save a cr2 version of the envelope that could be added to Genesis1 as a regular conformable clothing outfit, but I am seeing that Genesis works so hard to make it fit that it actually can break the mesh in small places, which means unstableness in hair sims. Hopefully saving it as a wearable preset instead that should work more smoothly with Genesis autofit won't end up breaking the mesh and the hair sims will work ok, but some testing is needed. Thanks for putting me back on the right path :)
The genesis cr2 option is intended for people trying to use genesis in Poser. I have just assumed that it wouldn't work at all in Carrara. But maybe a genesis cr2 could work in Carrara with more experimentation, eh? For the moment, though, probably best to use the .duf version.
I would still caution that growing the hair directly on the conforming mesh might get undesired results when the base genesis is morphed. Still might have to use a hair cap even if the low poly mesh still serves as a proxy collision object. Can't wait to see what you accomplish.
I would still caution that growing the hair directly on the conforming mesh might get undesired results when the base genesis is morphed. Still might have to use a hair cap even if the low poly mesh still serves as a proxy collision object. Can't wait to see what you accomplish.
Ah dangit, you're right. When the underlying Genesis moves, it makes the proxy distort, even if ever so slightly, and when a polygon breaks, it can fling the hair that's growing from it at a random weird angle, even if only for a frame. I get less random hijinks when using the wearable preset than a conforming cr2, but I still get some, so it really does look like the only solution for a 'universal' hair will be to have another invisible haircap that can ride on whatever character head we're using...
A little disappointing, but again I still think there's a universal solution, as both you and Dart have mentioned, of doing just the hair cap for the hair, and then having another proxy for it to collide against other sections of the body. Maybe broken up into boned sections even, and made into soft body attach... don't want to let my imagination run away with me, but I'd love to be able to do dynamic hair and dynamic cloth sims using the same proxy setup for ease...
I watched all your videos last night.
Very well done, an outstanding contribution to this community.
Your videos are excellent, Your points about the quality you can produce with Carrara Hair tools is confirmation that Carrara is a capable animation software.
Thank you very much for caring enough to share.
Thank you rampart1, I very much appreciate the kind words, and I do hope it's of good use to you. Although I know you are new to Carrara, I can tell just from your posts and the kinds of questions you've been asking that you will be a very formidable and capable user of Carrara very shortly. I hope the hair is as much fun to play with for you as it has been for me. :)
I've finished the more complex tutorial on the 2nd hairstyle, and mostly just rewatching them in youtube now to sort of self-edit at how many times I say something stupid or drone on repeating a point ad nauseum... I'm thinking I should remake them in a better fashion, but don't have the time at the moment, and even though I actually make several mistakes while creating the 2nd and more complex style right on screen in front of everybody, I'm thinking mistakes/corrections are valuable info too, because it shows how easy the tools are to use and quickly correct the mistakes. So while it's not perfect, I think I might post them just as they are, and then my OCD might make me redo them sometime down the road...
I'll add links in a bit, I think, better to charge ahead :)
Ultimately I want to use Diomede's low poly character to build some free hairsets that are 'ready to go' for animation and donate to the community for use on any figure. Have yet to get that project together, but I'm hoping by the end of the coming week...
Wondering around the Carrara Discussion forum I stumbled across this post and after starting the first video: Part 1 Overview, I immediately subscribed to this thread. First I want to say thank you for doing this tutorial! I have purchased tutorials where the narrator talks slow, you can barely understand him because of his accent, and after finishing the tutorial feeling like you didn't really learn anything.
I love that you speak clearly, and with an up tempo pace, getting a lot of information in including the little things. Great Job!
Now I was sitting there watching the 'Overview' video, thinking all these great things about Jonstark, "Wow! This guys great!", "He's the Man!" and then I hear you say how bad you hated "Studio" and how you thought it was the worst tool ever and I was like, "DELETE",pressing the delete button! LOL
JK! Jonstark, I found it very funny and definitely don't hold it against you! I have some software like that myself and know how you feel!
Amazing job on the tutorial and I cant wait to actually follow along in Carrara!
Lol, yeah I have always been kind of allergic to Studio's interface; every time I have to go into Studio to do anything I always end up lost, stumbling around, frustrated, saying 'where's the...?' etc. Even when trying to follow someone's step-by-step tutorial I have troubles. Studio has gotten a little better though, and I know a lot of people love it, it's just one of those apps I have a hard time meshing with and figuring out. :)
Thank you very much for the kind words and feedback, when I'm listening back to myself after creating them I'm always feeling like I sound like a bit of a dolt, repeating certain points too many times (I find myself muttering at the screen while listening to myself 'idiot, you already said that 3 times for heaven's sake give it a rest').
I'm currently on a Carrara hair craze, because all of this and what's possible with it is still so new to me, so I'm having a blast playing with and animating it, I hope it's as much fun for you as well :)
To help add to your madness, have you thought about braids? I nned beards for some characters and having a realistic braided mustache or Beard on a viking warrior would really make me like Carrara more! ;)
Been busy this weekend, but couldn't help thinking about your question, GarrettDR, and had a few minutes today to play around with the idea of braiding Carrara hair.
I've found it's certainly possible to do, but difficult, and may not be worthwhile. Here's why:
I the hair modeling room, the guide hairs do not collide with each other. So it's not as easy as simply putting 3 guide hairs growing out of the same polygon and then simply using the brush tool to pull them over and through each other like you would in braiding hair in real life, since they don't collide with each other, each time you pull one 'across' the other they will slip through.
There's a good reason for this, it actually is a feature and not a bug (imo :) ) It's put together that way so that if you were working with a hair model with 100 guide hairs and you needed to pull one specific guide hair from the front to the back, if the guide hairs could collide it would be nearly impossible to perform such a simple (and oftentimes necessary) operation. Hairs do collide with each other in simulations and in the final will reflect this, but the fact that guide hairs don't collide in the hair modeling room makes it much more tricky to make a braid.
Now you still can make a braid though, it just takes a bit more finesse.
First you would put your 3 guide hairs on a single polygon (or if it's a particularly thick braid, maybe 2 or 3 polygons). You need to have a lot of segments because you're going to be a lot of very tight curves, so I would say at least 100 - 200 segments. I wouldn't bother draping at all, I would use the brush tool to pull them - making sure they are close together - down into exactly the position you want the braid to be in.
Next change the view in the modeling room to both a Front and a Left (or Right) view, make them side by side instead of horizontal top and bottom by clicking the '2 Views' option twice. Now you can see the hairs from the left and front cameras side by side to get a true perception of the way the 3 hairs lay against each other.
Pick 1 of the guide hairs to be your 'center' hair. This one will not be moved at all, the other two will be 'braided' around it. Now it's all a matter of fine tuning with the brush tool for the other two hairs, making sure the 'stiffness' of the tool is set very low or at 0 so that you're only pulling/pushing a few of the hair segments at a time instead of the whole length of the hair being effected by each of your brushes. At intervals take on of the 2 'moving' guide hairs and make it curve back and forth and up and down over the 'straight' hair in the middle. Get it about like you want it, then go back to the other 'moving' guide hair and repeat the process, but moving exactly opposite to how you moved the first guide hair, so that if the guide hair 1 was moved to curve left and down, then guide hair 2 at the same point will be moved to curve right and up (in relation to that non-moving straight center guide hair).
Now this can take some time and finessing and a very deft touch to get it looking right, so you'll want to come the party equipped with plenty of patience... :)
Once you're done, and have your braid 'braided' then remember you will want to set the shape stiffness fairly high for this, if it's set low then in simulations and hair movements you'll end up shaking the braid loose. You may want to put a primitive torus (parented to the head) around the tip of the braid as well at hold it in place.
I'm not sure it's worth the effort, frankly, as I think you simply model a hair braid possibly even easier, rig it with bones for motion, and use that instead (as long as it's textured well it should look fine) since braids are necessarily much stiffer and less flowing in movement then regular loose hair would be anyway, and it might be easier to control with a primitive, but my initial experimenting with the idea does lead me to believe it's at least possible in Carrara. Here's a few screenshots that may (or may not) help:
I just finished both Tutorials - OUTSTANDING! I have worked or tried to in the hair room off and on but was never really satisfied with my result. I tried the simple hair from part 2 and using the tips from the Tutorials I am much happier with the results. I am going to try a more complex hair now if I can keep the style in mind (not a lot of room there). Thanks so much for the two tutorials and am looking forward the third.
Thanks very much EUGENWD! I'm still hair-crazy and excited about how easy and quick Carrara hair is to animate for such realistic results, I've been playing more every day and learning more as I go (I just recently realized we can apparently set the air dampening for a value higher than 100%, for example which might be very useful in some circumstances).
I hope to put some time together this week to try to test and refine a method for a 'universal' proxy that could be used with any figure, got a few ideas in mind :)
Hey Jonstark,
I started your tutorial yesterday and because of limited time I wasn't quite able to get all the way through the first one, but I have listened and occasionally peek over and watched both tutorial videos several times at work. Man, some of the things you say is hilarious! Great Tutorials! I have been trying to go through them and make notes when I can because you give so much information! i am, however, not doing hair right now, but beards. I have been using two groups, one for the beard, the second for the mustache. And looking at your advice on modeling a braid and rigging it.
Thanks for your time and effort on the Braids! I believe you are right that it may not be worth while, but I am going to experiment with your findings.
"Once you’re done, and have your braid ‘braided’ then remember you will want to set the shape stiffness fairly high for this, if it’s set low then in simulations and hair movements you’ll end up shaking the braid loose. You may want to put a primitive torus (parented to the head) around the tip of the braid as well at hold it in place."
You talked about parenting a primitive to the head to hold the braid in place. Can you not parent a primitive to a segment of the hair itself? Anyway, As soon as I Finish my first beard animation, I will post it up on my Carrara experience post along with any other Carrara hair I create! Can't wait to see more from you!
Thanks!
Hi Jonstark,
I made a face shield and parented it to the head of PhilW's V4 proxy, but it doesn't seem to stop the hair falling through it (see pic) . In the effects windows, I got collide with hairs checked for the face shield. What am I doing wrong?\
P.S.: How to you parent the V4 proxy to the V4 figure so the when V4 moves, the proxy has the same movements? I tried without success. Thanks.
Hi Argus, those hairs sticking through the neck is a sure sign that your autogrouping isn't enabled or if it is needs some adjusting (middle tab in the hair room, down towards the bottom, my usual setting is to check 'autogrouping' and I tend to only use the check for 'Distance Along' set to 3.4 or so). The only thing that ever collides against objects in simulations are the guide hairs, but the guide hairs are never visible in renders, only the loose hairs that 'follow' the guide hairs, but they will only naturally follow the guide hairs within a certain radius, so any loose hairs that don't have a guide hair to follow will just fall with gravity and straight through any mesh. So auto grouping being turned on basically tells all the loose hairs 'hey, you *will* follow a guide hair, whether you like it or not'. If you flip on auto grouping, 99.9% of those loose hairs that are failing through the normal collisons of mesh will be pulled the guide hairs, and no more hair sticking through neck effect :)
For the V4 proxy, it's just like loading it as conforming clothing on the character. So put the character in the scene, then drag and drop the clothing onto the character (or just use the 'fit to' drop down in the General tab for the proxy).
It doesn't conform like a clothing item?
Interesting idea Garrett, never even occurred to me to try to parent an object to the hair itself (although I know we can't parent to any particular hair segment, it would just be parented to the hair as a whole). I don't think it would work well, even though I'm curious to try, simply because the hair will move and sway with wind forces and scene effects, and something like a 'ponytail holder' we would want to remain constant in relation to the motion of the head, but maybe I'm wrong. Might be fun to play with an see.
I haven't built a beard yet, I think there's a very nice tutorial on that though over at the carrara café (if memory serves) and I would think larger hair size (and stiffer, without much movement) would be more appropriate for a beard then on the scalp. Maybe even using the fur setting, although maybe not.
Interesting idea Garrett, never even occurred to me to try to parent an object to the hair itself (although I know we can't parent to any particular hair segment, it would just be parented to the hair as a whole). I don't think it would work well, even though I'm curious to try, simply because the hair will move and sway with wind forces and scene effects, and something like a 'ponytail holder' we would want to remain constant in relation to the motion of the head, but maybe I'm wrong. Might be fun to play with an see.
I haven't built a beard yet, I think there's a very nice tutorial on that though over at the carrara café (if memory serves) and I would think larger hair size (and stiffer, without much movement) would be more appropriate for a beard then on the scalp. Maybe even using the fur setting, although maybe not.
I don't know if it was included with C8.5, but in earlier versions there were hair samples included. They would be in the Object Browser under Hair. They are built on hair caps. One is a ponytail style. I would check it out if it's there.
Yup still there, under 'samples' in objects tab under the hair folder. Took a look at the ponytail (it's not a straight ponytail but rather a curly-q ponytail style), it's not made for animation, and I was shocked by the number of guide hairs - over 1000! Serious overkill on the guide hairs there :) It has another V4 skullcap though, that could be useful.
I usually reduce the guides, but it is a versatile stile and since it is dynamic, it isn't that hard to set the parameters. I also get rid of the curls by using the smooth tool. Mostly I pointed it out because it was mentioned above about using a tie or something and wondering whether it could be parented to the hair. This shows and effective method. Use the skull cap (or head) to grow the main hair, and then grow the ponytail out of the tie object.