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Do You Have Suggestions for Changes to the Galleries?

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  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    plasma_ring said:

    My understanding is that the purpose of the gallery is "display your art" and not "accurately demonstrate the capabilities of the software." I think it's very cool that some people enjoy the challenge of working entirely within DS to get their desired results; some of us are graphic artists who use 3D as part of a much bigger workflow. The gallery containing both types of work just shows how flexible the products are and how they can fit many different needs. That said, I am certainly rethinking whether or not my art belongs in the Daz gallery at all since a lot of it is paintover work. 

    I love to look at everyone's art and I have a personal policy that if something is interesting enough for me to click on, it's interesting enough for me to click the like button (comments are always way harder to get on any kind of post; in social media marketing they actually have a significant monetary value above a like or reshare). I think the existing gallery format probably made me way picker about what I clicked on than I otherwise would be, because loading times were pretty slow and there were a relatively small number of images on each page. 

    But this kind of thing is always a popularity contest to some degree, in the sense that folks are more likely to trust that something has value if other people do. It's pretty common for people to only comment on social media posts if they see other people commenting, or only look/like if someone else has. I usually don't get much traction anywhere I post if I'm just yeeting stuff into the ring, but do okay when I target stuff to my very niche corner of fandom. If I was going to target work to the Daz gallery, I'd concentrate on trying to make striking close up portraits or really strong cinematic compositions (worth noting that both of these are readable at a thumbnail size). 

    I assume Daz is probably already well into whatever gallery changes they're planning on, but my wishlist would probably be:

    • Faster loading
    • Random image rotation on the sidebar 
    • More flexible search for items used (IIRC in the current format you have to start your search with the exact name of the item to get popups, which is fun when 10,000 item names begin with "dForce")
    • Infinite scroll with bigger thumbnails that show the entire image (would need alternative less image-heavy options)
    • Better use of tagging (ability to follow specific tags, suggested related tags/images)

    I think some folks would probably balk at those or consider them intrusive, but they do improve visibility and make it easier to recirculate older art. Currently it's a little like Twitter, where if an image doesn't get pickup right away it can just fall off the front page and never be seen again. 

    The gallery images on product pages feature is amazing and I think it's only part of DazDeals addon if I'm remembering correctly? It would be awesome if Daz integrated that officially, if so. 

     I wonder how many new users see a heavily postworked image and think to themselves, "what settings/product did the artist use in DS/Iray/3delight to get that effect?"

    If I hadn't seen artists using Daz assets to do that kind of work, I would never have developed my current artstyle. I can totally respect if the community is uninterested in seeing gallery images that aren't straightforward renders, but when I see something I'm interested in replicating I research how to do it. If it turns out to be a workflow I don't want to learn, it's still cool to know how it's done and that it's possible. 

    100% yes to the more flexible search having to type in dforce for every dforce product is deeply painful

    100% no to infinite scroll. it uses up more memory and always seems to stall out on every site that has ever implemented. "infinite" is a lie. at some point it decides its lost connection and the only way to fix is completely reload at which point you're back at the top and have to manually scroll throught the equivalent of 15 pages. Infinite scroll is a blight on humanity

  • Pixel8tedPixel8ted Posts: 602
    edited February 2021

    Griffin Avid said:

    I say you go all out.

    Add a filter for each rendering engine. Iray and 3Delight so I won't be FORCED to see art done with a render engine I don't use.

    Add a filter for PC+ so I don't have to see art from non-members.

    Add a PRODUCT LIBRARY filter so I only see art done using products I own.

    Add a wishlist button so I only see art made with items I might buy someday....

    Add an ART, RenderART, Digital Art, and CGIart-  multiple-choice menu so I NEVER have to see the kind of [insert descriptor] Art I don't want to.

    Maybe we should separate by orientation and by how long you've been using Daz. Like, under 18 months goes into a special beginner sub-gallery.

    ----------------------

    What's really needed - is all the base features of Social Media. 

    - make SHARING your gallery a thing.

    - Make the links easy to understand and use.

    - Honestly, it should really connect to other social media sites...like the ability to link your other accounts.

    - flesh it out enough so that if someone asks where they can see your art, you can answer in the gallery from Daz. I don't think anyone really does that now.

    -----------------------------

    And also make the Iray Render Watermark [you know, the one from the promos] available (more easily downloaded) and, and  also make one for postwork...like it says "THIS WON'T BE MADE WITH DAZ STUDIO...good luck tryiing though!"

     

     

    YES.  I get exactly what you are saying.

    Somewhere along the line it seems to be forgotten that it is an art gallery.  PA's have their promo images on the same page where the "Add to Cart Button" is located.  If you don't feel that you are getting good enough promo images to evaluate an item, you should be asking for improvements to the product pages and NOT looking to limit  what can be submitted to the Gallery.  

    Post edited by Pixel8ted on
  • Pixel8tedPixel8ted Posts: 602
    edited February 2021

    I want to further say I don't see it as a hobby artist's responsibility to only post renders RAW as a DAZ advertisement.  Not getting paid for that; not my job.  Producing an image 100% true to a product is the sole responsibility of the PA or whoever they have designated to create that set of renders on their product page.  

    Post edited by Pixel8ted on
  • plasma_ringplasma_ring Posts: 1,027
    edited February 2021

    j cade said:

    plasma_ring said:

    My understanding is that the purpose of the gallery is "display your art" and not "accurately demonstrate the capabilities of the software." I think it's very cool that some people enjoy the challenge of working entirely within DS to get their desired results; some of us are graphic artists who use 3D as part of a much bigger workflow. The gallery containing both types of work just shows how flexible the products are and how they can fit many different needs. That said, I am certainly rethinking whether or not my art belongs in the Daz gallery at all since a lot of it is paintover work. 

    I love to look at everyone's art and I have a personal policy that if something is interesting enough for me to click on, it's interesting enough for me to click the like button (comments are always way harder to get on any kind of post; in social media marketing they actually have a significant monetary value above a like or reshare). I think the existing gallery format probably made me way picker about what I clicked on than I otherwise would be, because loading times were pretty slow and there were a relatively small number of images on each page. 

    But this kind of thing is always a popularity contest to some degree, in the sense that folks are more likely to trust that something has value if other people do. It's pretty common for people to only comment on social media posts if they see other people commenting, or only look/like if someone else has. I usually don't get much traction anywhere I post if I'm just yeeting stuff into the ring, but do okay when I target stuff to my very niche corner of fandom. If I was going to target work to the Daz gallery, I'd concentrate on trying to make striking close up portraits or really strong cinematic compositions (worth noting that both of these are readable at a thumbnail size). 

    I assume Daz is probably already well into whatever gallery changes they're planning on, but my wishlist would probably be:

    • Faster loading
    • Random image rotation on the sidebar 
    • More flexible search for items used (IIRC in the current format you have to start your search with the exact name of the item to get popups, which is fun when 10,000 item names begin with "dForce")
    • Infinite scroll with bigger thumbnails that show the entire image (would need alternative less image-heavy options)
    • Better use of tagging (ability to follow specific tags, suggested related tags/images)

    I think some folks would probably balk at those or consider them intrusive, but they do improve visibility and make it easier to recirculate older art. Currently it's a little like Twitter, where if an image doesn't get pickup right away it can just fall off the front page and never be seen again. 

    The gallery images on product pages feature is amazing and I think it's only part of DazDeals addon if I'm remembering correctly? It would be awesome if Daz integrated that officially, if so. 

     I wonder how many new users see a heavily postworked image and think to themselves, "what settings/product did the artist use in DS/Iray/3delight to get that effect?"

    If I hadn't seen artists using Daz assets to do that kind of work, I would never have developed my current artstyle. I can totally respect if the community is uninterested in seeing gallery images that aren't straightforward renders, but when I see something I'm interested in replicating I research how to do it. If it turns out to be a workflow I don't want to learn, it's still cool to know how it's done and that it's possible. 

    100% yes to the more flexible search having to type in dforce for every dforce product is deeply painful

    100% no to infinite scroll. it uses up more memory and always seems to stall out on every site that has ever implemented. "infinite" is a lie. at some point it decides its lost connection and the only way to fix is completely reload at which point you're back at the top and have to manually scroll throught the equivalent of 15 pages. Infinite scroll is a blight on humanity

    That's fair. I drew most of my list from what contributed to content longevity and visibility on other sites I've been on; Tumblr folks spend a lot of time browsing tags and the ability to scroll constantly means there's no first page to fall off of that people don't click past. But it does get buggy even there and Daz isn't a site designed specifically to host billions of pieces of user-uploaded media.  

    Pixel8ted said:

    I want to further say I don't see it as a hobby artist's responsibility to only post renders RAW as a DAZ advertisement.  Not getting paid for that; not my job.  Producing an image 100% true to a product is the sole responsibility of the PA or whoever they have designated to create that set of renders on their product page.  

    Yeah, this is the core of it for me. I said I'd like to see the gallery visibility from product pages integrated as an official feature, but I kind of wonder if that wouldn't contribute to the idea that gallery images should be representative of the products used. 

    Post edited by plasma_ring on
  • Pixel8tedPixel8ted Posts: 602
    edited February 2021

    I wouldn't be opposed to a touch enabled before/after slider feature in the gallery.

    Something along the lines of this:  https://koenromers.com/cocoen/

    (Not advocating for or against this particular script just pointing out an example of what I am talking about.)

    Edit: This assumes that the default image in gallery could be set as the finished image the artist desires to be displayed with the scrubber bar able to access the starter image if supplied by the artist.  *Starter image being whatever render composition the artist uses before doing major edits. It should also be Opt-In per image not a requirement.

    Post edited by Pixel8ted on
  • 00qisq0000qisq00 Posts: 13

    A dark mode sure would be nice, for the forums too. 

    Would be nice to be able to follow artists as well.

  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 1,385

    I'll leave this here...

    https://blog.daz3d.com/how-to-make-money-with-daz-studio-get-paid-to-make-art/

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,838

    ..one of the other possibilites not mentioned is graphic novels which a few here have created and/or are working on.

  • Griffin AvidGriffin Avid Posts: 3,814

    That list needs about another ten entries.

    And some of those suggestions don't exactly lead to cash. sad

  • DisparateDreamerDisparateDreamer Posts: 2,520

    i'd like the ability to grab a link to share the image to other sites/bring them back to daz. (share to fb/twitter/whatever).

    With the animation abilities of Daz Studio always improving, it'd be great if the galleries could also host animations. Let's show off what DS is capable of! :D

    I don't get the post work thing and think it's a bit... moot. Even Daz the program has inside it the ability to "postwork" with color correction and layers and stuff. and it's usually pretty obvious when something is or isn't heavily modified outside of Daz, so I don't think it really matters. 

    "Photoshop" is only if you HAVE photoshop, a lot of 'postwork' is not in photoshop. I don't have photoshop. Any work i do is in free programs. 

    I'd like an algorithm to randomly show the new pictures from a set time frame, so you don't just see a lump of wips like others have said. It'd be great if there was some gallery organization though so you could browse themes, see what people do with things. 

     

    Just my couple of wishes :D

  • MimicMollyMimicMolly Posts: 2,321
    edited February 2021

    You know what? The only thing I really hope they do in the galleries is actually link and credit the artists who post in it. See this official blog entry? Doesn't mention the artist who created that Cyborg Queen Elizabeth I/Gloriana pic that's being used in the header. https://blog.daz3d.com/daz-3d-and-tafi-content-arrives-in-the-unity-asset-store/

    Sadly, I can't remember who made it either, but I do remember seeing it trending in the galleries before they got closed. There was another such case earlier, a render was used without credit for a newsletter. The artist took it down, but eventually reposted it back. It's strange that I don't see a concern about lack of crediting.

    Even if it's from a product promo, I'd like to see the product it came from too.

    Post edited by MimicMolly on
  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,735

    MimicMolly said:

    You know what? The only thing I really hope they do in the galleries is actually link and credit the artists who post in it. See this official blog entry? Doesn't mention the artist who created that Cyborg Queen Elizabeth I/Gloriana pic that's being used in the header. https://blog.daz3d.com/daz-3d-and-tafi-content-arrives-in-the-unity-asset-store/

    Sadly, I can't remember who made it either, but I do remember seeing it trending in the galleries before they got closed. There was another such case earlier, a render was used without credit for a newsletter. The artist took it down, but eventually reposted it back. It's strange that I don't see a concern about lack of crediting.

    Even if it's from a product promo, I'd like to see the product it came from too.

    For the record, EULA states you grant them the rights to use images you posted in the gallery as they want.

    Yes, it would be nice if they did credit the original artist, but they don't have to.

  • ANGELREAPER1972ANGELREAPER1972 Posts: 4,555

    couple of things others mentioned the comment section, when I've commented on someone elses work asking them a question or whatever I don't know if they replied to my comment on their work or not which brings up related to the next thing when we liked something and want to revisit the liked image for whatever reason but for example to see if the creator has commented back it was virtually impossible to find the liked image or others in the section that displayed images we liked as they were not in any order and were mixed up massively 

  • ANGELREAPER1972ANGELREAPER1972 Posts: 4,555

    Leana said:

    MimicMolly said:

    You know what? The only thing I really hope they do in the galleries is actually link and credit the artists who post in it. See this official blog entry? Doesn't mention the artist who created that Cyborg Queen Elizabeth I/Gloriana pic that's being used in the header. https://blog.daz3d.com/daz-3d-and-tafi-content-arrives-in-the-unity-asset-store/

    Sadly, I can't remember who made it either, but I do remember seeing it trending in the galleries before they got closed. There was another such case earlier, a render was used without credit for a newsletter. The artist took it down, but eventually reposted it back. It's strange that I don't see a concern about lack of crediting.

    Even if it's from a product promo, I'd like to see the product it came from too.

    For the record, EULA states you grant them the rights to use images you posted in the gallery as they want.

    Yes, it would be nice if they did credit the original artist, but they don't have to.

    The artist posted about this on facebook in one of the groups I'm inthey had their signiture on the render but it got removed. so the artist complained and deleted all their work if I remember right the issue eventually got resolved and the artist got credited and their signiture readded

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited February 2021

    I would like to see the ability to embed our animations into the gallery like we can at renderosity.

    It takes a lot of work both prep and post work to make a short story animation, and animation get so little love for the effort a person puts into them .   so having or putting on labels for prep or post work is just silly . But it sure be nice to upload our animations in the gallery be side the still art  . Daz studio is capable of rendering so much more than still art. Its to bad we can't show it in the galleries.

    A sample of Daz Studio  animated short.

    Click to play~ best viewed in 1080HD

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,010

    removing a signature from someones art, seriously how would DAZ think that would go down well regardless of a gallery EULA surprise

  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 1,385

    Leana said:

    For the record, EULA states you grant them the rights to use images you posted in the gallery as they want.

    Yes, it would be nice if they did credit the original artist, but they don't have to.

     all should read that EULA carefully, some questions posted here are answered already there. cool

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    Would like the ability to remove comments or block certain individuals. There is nothing like posting a nice image, and having a troll comment appear. 

  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 3,003

    Serene Night said:

    Would like the ability to remove comments or block certain individuals. There is nothing like posting a nice image, and having a troll comment appear. 

    I'm fairly sure comments *could* be removed if you went into the edit mode, just not directly on the main page.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    Allowing gallery posters to control what is posted under their art is necessity to providing a friendly safe environment for artists.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,838

    Ivy said:

    I would like to see the ability to embed our animations into the gallery like we can at renderosity.

    It takes a lot of work both prep and post work to make a short story animation, and animation get so little love for the effort a person puts into them .   so having or putting on labels for prep or post work is just silly . But it sure be nice to upload our animations in the gallery be side the still art  . Daz studio is capable of rendering so much more than still art. Its to bad we can't show it in the galleries.

    A sample of Daz Studio  animated short.

    Click to play~ best viewed in 1080HD

    ..very nice (particularly that last scene with the newspaper) and I agree with being able to upload to the gallery. 

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165

    kyoto kid said:

    Ivy said:

    I would like to see the ability to embed our animations into the gallery like we can at renderosity.

    It takes a lot of work both prep and post work to make a short story animation, and animation get so little love for the effort a person puts into them .   so having or putting on labels for prep or post work is just silly . But it sure be nice to upload our animations in the gallery be side the still art  . Daz studio is capable of rendering so much more than still art. Its to bad we can't show it in the galleries.

    A sample of Daz Studio  animated short.

    Click to play~ best viewed in 1080HD

    ..very nice (particularly that last scene with the newspaper) and I agree with being able to upload to the gallery. 

    Thanks @kk

  • SummerhorseSummerhorse Posts: 684

    Serene Night said:

    Allowing gallery posters to control what is posted under their art is necessity to providing a friendly safe environment for artists.

     

    I could swear that we were able to do that, and I agree with you that we should be able to do so in future.

    I would LOVE to be able to follow an artist. I don't always have time to scroll through the whole gallery for new posts.

  • plasma_ringplasma_ring Posts: 1,027

    Leana said:

    MimicMolly said:

    You know what? The only thing I really hope they do in the galleries is actually link and credit the artists who post in it. See this official blog entry? Doesn't mention the artist who created that Cyborg Queen Elizabeth I/Gloriana pic that's being used in the header. https://blog.daz3d.com/daz-3d-and-tafi-content-arrives-in-the-unity-asset-store/

    Sadly, I can't remember who made it either, but I do remember seeing it trending in the galleries before they got closed. There was another such case earlier, a render was used without credit for a newsletter. The artist took it down, but eventually reposted it back. It's strange that I don't see a concern about lack of crediting.

    Even if it's from a product promo, I'd like to see the product it came from too.

    For the record, EULA states you grant them the rights to use images you posted in the gallery as they want.

    Yes, it would be nice if they did credit the original artist, but they don't have to.

    They are one of the only companies with that kind of language in the EULA I've ever seen actually leverage it for assets. Usually platforms will go out of their way to reassure users that they're not just trying to mine them for free work, and will be meticulous about credit for the same reason. My work has an extra layer of proactive submission consent people have to give before we even reshare their posts. 

    Every few months someone discovers nearly that exact boilerplate on whatever site they're posting on and causes a minor panic by spreading the word that DeviantArt or Twitter is exploiting art uploaded to their site, and folks have to explain that you need to grant them those rights just so they can host images. It's legal for them to do exactly what the copy says they can for their own benefit, but it's not a user-friendly practice and can result in lost trust. 

  • dennisgray41dennisgray41 Posts: 860

    RichardC said:

    Based on responses to a previous post, it seems like it would be beneficial to have an open discussion about possible new directions for the Galleries to take, whenever they decide to return.
    For instance, one person complained about images that are primarily Photoshop layer art rather than DAZ 3D renders. Should Gallery images be restricted to renders with minimal postwork in Photoshop?
    Another person made a comment about upvoting seeming like a popularity contest. Should voting be limited to DAZ employees, with comments still open to everyone?

    If you have ideas and suggestions, please chime in.

    Thanks to everyone at DAZ for all that you and your vendors do. It's great software and a great store.

    Richard C.

    I would like there to be Galleries!

  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 1,385

    Serene Night said:

    Would like the ability to remove comments or block certain individuals. There is nothing like posting a nice image, and having a troll comment appear. 

    +1 but we cannot even delete our forum comments, sometimes duplicated due to slow server load.

    Trolls are extint... now we call them Haters. 

  • BendinggrassBendinggrass Posts: 1,380

    FSMCDesigns said:

    MimicMolly said:

    Perhaps "postworked" art should have its own gallery sub-category. Digital painting, in itself, is another art form too. It's always interesting to see how people create their digital art.

    I agree, but then again who decides what is postwork and what is not? To me sharpening, color correcttion, or contrast, etc are not things I consider postwork, but I have seen plenty of users that do.

    I enjoy creating digital imagery, but bringing a base render into photoshop and spending hours, even days painting over it is a totally different skill set. While I enjoy viewing images like that, it's not what I would want to do myself. Maybe a tag for postwork or non postwork when uploading images, that way there is some small distinction, especially for new users that see the difference between both types, but don't realize there is a difference in more than just the image quality/style. it's like comparing my paint by the numbers landscape to a Van Gogh in a gallery, LOL. I wonder how many new users see a heavily postworked image and think to themselves, "what settings/product did the artist use in DS/Iray/3delight to get that effect?"

    I enjoy viewing art that is created thru the same technic/style as my own more than looking at images that are created with different technics/styles that i will never use/ have access to. Kinda like looking at images that are rendered with different renderers. I hate looking at an image and thinking about how the artist did what they did so I could try and emulate what they did only to discover they used a different renderer like octane or Vray..

    Good suggestions.

    Perhaps we could have a category for Heavily Post-Worked Image, with the original present also, or through a link. It would be an education to see what people do in post-work.

    A WIP for that also could show the steps used in post-work.

    Add to that the categories of Science Fiction, Fantasy, Portrait, Program Used (eg., DS, Carara, Poser, etc.), Pin Up, Military, Landscape, etc., and it could be a place to get lost in. 

  • MelissaGTMelissaGT Posts: 2,611
    edited February 2021

    Bendinggrass said:

    FSMCDesigns said:

    MimicMolly said:

    Perhaps "postworked" art should have its own gallery sub-category. Digital painting, in itself, is another art form too. It's always interesting to see how people create their digital art.

    I agree, but then again who decides what is postwork and what is not? To me sharpening, color correcttion, or contrast, etc are not things I consider postwork, but I have seen plenty of users that do.

    I enjoy creating digital imagery, but bringing a base render into photoshop and spending hours, even days painting over it is a totally different skill set. While I enjoy viewing images like that, it's not what I would want to do myself. Maybe a tag for postwork or non postwork when uploading images, that way there is some small distinction, especially for new users that see the difference between both types, but don't realize there is a difference in more than just the image quality/style. it's like comparing my paint by the numbers landscape to a Van Gogh in a gallery, LOL. I wonder how many new users see a heavily postworked image and think to themselves, "what settings/product did the artist use in DS/Iray/3delight to get that effect?"

    I enjoy viewing art that is created thru the same technic/style as my own more than looking at images that are created with different technics/styles that i will never use/ have access to. Kinda like looking at images that are rendered with different renderers. I hate looking at an image and thinking about how the artist did what they did so I could try and emulate what they did only to discover they used a different renderer like octane or Vray..

    Good suggestions.

    Perhaps we could have a category for Heavily Post-Worked Image, with the original present also, or through a link. It would be an education to see what people do in post-work.

    A WIP for that also could show the steps used in post-work.

    Add to that the categories of Science Fiction, Fantasy, Portrait, Program Used (eg., DS, Carara, Poser, etc.), Pin Up, Military, Landscape, etc., and it could be a place to get lost in. 

    It should be the artist's prerogative on if they want to share before/after postwork.

    And I'll say it again, separating out post-worked images feels like they are being labeled as "other" or "lesser" when that should not be case. If someone truly wishes to see only raw renders, then I like the idea of giving the poster the option to use a #no_postwork or #raw_render tag that they can search by. 

    (Remember, there are those who feel that a raw render not sent through some sort of post-work process is unfinished, I'm not saying I'm one of them, but it's the other side of the debate coin and there are just as many folks who postwork as there that don't...so segratating is not a good idea, in my opinion...it's all art and it's all valid in the gallery.)

    Post edited by MelissaGT on
  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 1,385

    Even if one artists share their knowledge many few ones would replicate them, not all postwork involves 100% Photoshop, what if the artist used Gimp, Krita, Adobe Ilustrator, LightRoom or Corel Photopaint?

    had you read some titles as:

    "Created in Zbrush, apparel using Marvelous Designer, Textured in Marmoset Toolbag, Rendered in Arnold, Rigged in Maya and Postworked in PS" , imagine an artist explaining any step of this and the quantity of people that could replicate all the steps, not all works are made in one only software and not all images on one gallery site should defined as only DS rendered, and is not bad, but with the Bridges available now you could ask for a postwork and the image was rendered in...UnrealEngine for example.

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    i personally have no interest in postworked.  i want to see the possibilities of the render software.

    my favorite format of art viewing is the slide shows people are setting to music on the yt.  i'll watch em over and over, especially slide shows set to the cheery, perky musicc, 

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