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Right! I have the same deal with auto-refresh, and leave that off. I just meant that it's 'something like' that! LOL -- but much better. So cool. I can hardly wait to see this in action.
Glad to know I'm not the only one that has to turn it off :)
It's pretty amazing to see your whole "render" refresh so fast when you make changes, and not to even come close to the impact that the little auto-render window in the material room has on your system.
Just revisited this thread and seen the latest clip of the Octane plugin for Carrara from last month on otoy's site ( http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36332&start=20 ) ... I'm still picking up my jaw from the floor! :)
I can certainly see justification for a multi-monitor setup, Carrara in the main moniter, the live render preview window on one of the side monitors and possibly a graphics app on the 3rd monitor...
Here's what I'm I'm still hoping for: Dynamic Hair, the volumetric tools (fire, smoke, fog, clouds), as well as some basic level of carrara's procedurals get implemented into Octane.
I seen the helpful shell command in the video that lets you one click convert the shaders over to Octane shaders which is really cool. Not just cool, but a huge plus.
Still, the big question is going to be Carrara's procedurals, how well do they transfer over... Octane seems to provide some of its own procedurals for carrara within the shader tree, ie: Marble.
For example, the end portion of the video even examples one of Howie Farks summer scenes with the trees, meadow, & pond. Again i'm totally blown away just how fast that scene was rendered, with HDRI lighting i'm assuming. Especially in comparison how long it would traditionally take with a full GI setup in Carrara. Now, going back to the carrara procedurals question, one of my big curiosities is concerning Carrara's terrain tool, which of course uses procedurals. The full lighting, sky, and landscaping creation tools is what drew me to Carrara in the first place many years ago. I would still hope one could still make use of the terrain tools as normal.
I like to layer my terrain, a huge one for the distance, and large to medium ones in the immediate foreground. Right now i'm doing one such scene, a huge mountain face in the background, and a rocky plains (re-sized to 2000ft x 2000ft in the terrain editor) for the immediate foreground. Its going to look great once it finishes rendering at best quality settings in full GI however, Carrara's render is 7 1/2 hours in, and projecting another 31+ hours to go (edit: ok, had the lighting quality jacked a tad too high lol). The test renders alone WITHOUT skylight and indirect lighting enabled take 3 - 16mins a piece. And i'm not even using any carrara trees or traditional poser content type trees. I'm using a generated height map from the terrain for the surface replicator to distribute a few plants here and there, but still, with 2 gen4 figures and a vehicle and a plane of volumetric clouds its taking a serious hit. With the Octane plugin, and a pair of nVidia Titans, well, you can see what i'm getting at :)
I'm betting Octane would still be faster than a pair of 6 - 12 core Xeon cpu's under Carrara's own render engine... ie 2x 6 core Xeons = 24 total cores ( 12 physical + 12 virtual) , or 2x 12 core Xeons = 48 total cores (24 physical + 24 virtual); and possibly requiring Carrara's Grid addon to make full use of 48 cores. And a pair of Titans with an Octane license way more economical all around in both price (cheaper), time (faster) and productivity.
Wouldn't it?
Yet the whole Octane live preview / live render speed point would be moot if some of carrara's features like terrains (procedurals) or even volumetrics isn't possible...
From a hobbyist standpoint of view, either route might be seen as quite an expendature of cash, but then its still a savings in terms of how much time left over to do other stuff in an evening. But then again my last upgrade / build on my rig was back in 2007 that i'm still using today. Especially with Octane, live preview rendering as you work. No more spending time on multiple test renders. Soon as your done adjusting the last item, be it a texture or pose or object, then it could possibly be mere minutes (depending on complexity and class of nvidia cards) your end image is done.
It's hard to say how, or if, procedural terrains will work with Octane. A lot would depend of how Carrara handles them when they are sent to the renderer. If they are converted/treated like geometry, then they should translate to Octane. I don't have a clue if the terrain shaders would translate.
Wouldn't it?
Yet the whole Octane live preview / live render speed point would be moot if some of carrara's features like terrains (procedurals) or even volumetrics isn't possible...
From a hobbyist standpoint of view, either route might be seen as quite an expendature of cash, but then its still a savings in terms of how much time left over to do other stuff in an evening. But then again my last upgrade / build on my rig was back in 2007 that i'm still using today. Especially with Octane, live preview rendering as you work. No more spending time on multiple test renders. Soon as your done adjusting the last item, be it a texture or pose or object, then it could possibly be mere minutes (depending on complexity and class of nvidia cards) your end image is done.
The speed is a bit difficult to "compare" because you have a lot of settings/options in a biased renderer like Carrara that can really speed things up without a huge hit on image quality. With Octane you don't have nearly as many options to speed up rendering. But, using similar settings in Carrara (i.e. turning up everything to max quality, ray tracing, and full indirect lighting), Octane would probably be a fair bit faster (OK, probably a lot faster) using a pair of Titans compared to your 48 core machine.
Where you really get a huge boost in time reduction from project start to finish with Octane is actually in scene set up. The immediate feedback while working on shaders, lights, and object placement directly translated to greatly improved productivity (especially if your your a test render-aholic like I am). Then you ad in the increased quality of the renders with increased render speed, It's really hard not to really like Octane!!
The speed is a bit difficult to "compare" because you have a lot of settings/options in a biased renderer like Carrara that can really speed things up without a huge hit on image quality. With Octane you don't have nearly as many options to speed up rendering. But, using similar settings in Carrara (i.e. turning up everything to max quality, ray tracing, and full indirect lighting), Octane would probably be a fair bit faster (OK, probably a lot faster) using a pair of Titans compared to your 48 core machine.
Where you really get a huge boost in time reduction from project start to finish with Octane is actually in scene set up. The immediate feedback while working on shaders, lights, and object placement directly translated to greatly improved productivity (especially if your your a test render-aholic like I am). Then you ad in the increased quality of the renders with increased render speed, It's really hard not to really like Octane!!
Well, for starters, i'm still using an older core2quad from 2007, paired with a single 1gb nvidia 8800gts from the same year. and just patiently waiting on the sidelines, both for more Octane Plugin results, as well as waiting on the Haswell-E based cpu's to come out this year before I even do any upgrading. There's just too many unknowns right now.
Yup, I too am a test render-aholic like you are. Way too much time gets spent doing test renders, when I could be spending that time plowing through setting up the scene.
Your totally right about the workflow, even just having seen from the few demo clips. By the time your done your last adjustment, your scene's pretty much rendered itself with Octane. That too would be quite a help.
The other thing too is, with Carrara's native renderer, while i've gotten good at producing results and quality I'm happy with, true HDRI still eludes me. Nor can you rotate the HDRI map within carrara, as exampled in Octane.
Lastly, if I ended up staying with Carrara's native renderer, going the dual Xeon cpu route, there's still the question of how long its going to take to even chew through the initial pre-rendering sequence calculations aka: sample lighting , filling grid, ans Subsurface Scattering. Its really going to depend alot on just how optimized and multi-threaded those processes are. My cpu usually sits between 25 - 75% actual load during that sequence. Once that finishes, then yeah, anything over 6 active render buckets will affect the render speed the most.
Here is my latest out of Octane. This combines several things I've been working on learning including: SSS skin shaders, SSS hair shaders, mesh lights, and "dramatic" or mood lighting. It's also a new character I've been working on for G2F using V6, a touch of G6, and loads of other morphs. Sorry for the "cheesecake" image, but if your going to do something Frazetta-esk, you've got to have cheesecake ;-)
This image took a little over an hour to render (@3400X3000), which isn't bad at all with 4 light sources, SSS materials, and low lighting. The lighting is an HDR (mainly for the background), and three mesh lights. I didn't use it in this image, but I found out that you can have invisible light sources in Octane - which is a big plus!!
Let me know if you have any questions. Can't wait for the Carrara plugin to make it to public beta!!
EDIT: Forgot to add that the outfit is Heroine Fantasy Armour from here - great for Fantasy Heroine type images.
Yeah, that's looking really nice DR!
Yeah, that's looking really nice DR!
I second Dartanbeck's motion! :) That's truly a fantastic render and a real beauty at that! Her skin is "WOW!". The metal bikini is also quite exquisite. If I didn't know this was a render, I'd have sworn it was a high end photograph. Well done Dustrider. B)
Great work DustRider ;)
I too am having a great time testing out Sighmans plugin, love the sss in your image :)
For anyone who is interested in Octane, if your a student, you can get Octane Standalone for free. That's a huge savings, you just need to buy the plugin for your app of choice (Carrara) when it's available.
The announcement with all the details can be found here:
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38655
Great job dustrider. You achieved the look you were going for with the character and set.
Thanks for the compliments :red:
As a side note, the new beta plugin for DS is much more stable than the old one was, and I'm able to make adjustments to the scene now without needing to close down the Octane Render view port.
Right. I've decided now is the time to move onto Octane.
Here are my first baby steps with lighting a scene using just emitters.
I've decided Episode 9 (out end of next week hopefully) will be the last thing I render in native Carrara. It survived 5 episodes as did DAZ 3D before it. Things have moved on and it's now Octane to the very end. (Probably with Carrara as the modeller / animator - I Know what I'm doing with Carrara at least!).
I'm waiting an age to render out all the scenes with Carrara, then there is a bit of post and we are free to explore the world of Octane. Shame just missed out on the beta test by a couple of weeks. Couldn't quite get ready in time. Moving from Vista to 7 was a nightmare.
So what are you using to feed Octane, DAZ Studio? Poser?
Moving from XP to 7 for me was wonderful. Stepping into 8, on the other hand....
DAZ atm. I didn't get to play with the Carrara beta. mind you DAZ has moved on a lot since version 3 advanced (the last time I used it).
8? ha ha - don't get me started. (What were they thinking??).
I've got one more emitter experiment to show tonight (I can't do spot lights in Octane yet), but The Deco set (below) comes alive with Emitters and a tiny bit of subdued daylight (to act like indirect lighting in the room). I'm having fun Dartan after the strain of Episodes 7-9. First time in a few years. Woo hoo!
[EDIT] Spots are just emitters funneled through a long shape. I used a tankard, stretched it, and then whacked up the strength of the thing (it was an ice cream topping stuck in a tankard of all things!? - Too late to model), and voila! A spot light!
Oh darn, I've just noticed the Spot has taken out the lovely up-lighting. Lots to learn. Ho hum...
Glad to hear it, my friend! Fun is a great place to be!
My Wife and I were supposed to have fun voice acting this week, but we both got sick - nasty, scratchy throat, aching head, sick! Argh!
Yeah, DAZ Studio has some masterful developers working on it. It was cool to learn that they are working on DAZ Studio because they wanted to work on DAZ Studio, so became interns at DAZ! Why? What was that? Because they love DAZ Studio! Sweet!
Nothing beats fired up developers - and their efforts are really turning out a fantastic piece of software.
I am trying to slowly bring Studio into my flow. But Carrara still owns my CG heart!
Agreed.
At the end of the day we are Poser Junkies - whether it be Poser, DAZ or Carrara. I'm happy to use all pieces of software. It's just Carrara is my all-in-one weapon of choice.
Get well soon!
Hi,
OctaneRender Standalone 1.50 ist out:
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38835
rk.
Thanks for the heads up!
DAZ atm. I didn't get to play with the Carrara beta. mind you DAZ has moved on a lot since version 3 advanced (the last time I used it).
8? ha ha - don't get me started. (What were they thinking??).
I've got one more emitter experiment to show tonight (I can't do spot lights in Octane yet), but The Deco set (below) comes alive with Emitters and a tiny bit of subdued daylight (to act like indirect lighting in the room). I'm having fun Dartan after the strain of Episodes 7-9. First time in a few years. Woo hoo!
[EDIT] Spots are just emitters funneled through a long shape. I used a tankard, stretched it, and then whacked up the strength of the thing (it was an ice cream topping stuck in a tankard of all things!? - Too late to model), and voila! A spot light!
Oh darn, I've just noticed the Spot has taken out the lovely up-lighting. Lots to learn. Ho hum...
Looking good! I never thought of doing that for a spot light, great idea. You can also create invisible lights by making your light emitter invisible (no opacity), which can help boost the light coming from something like a candle, by placing a ivisible light near the candle without making the "flame" too bright..
It looks like Octane 1.5 has several things that should help with your animations. Hopefully t_3 will have the DS plugin updated before long to make use of 1.5. I would guess that the Carrrara plugin will use 1.5 when it comes out. Alembic looks like it might be useful for animations as well. Maybe Carrara will get Alembic support in the near future (or maybe Fenric will make a plugin).
Another interesting announcement from Otoy about support in 1.5 for the new .ORBX format, which will be an open source format. It will be interesting to see what kind of support there will be for it. It may help plugin developers to be able to provide data that can be exported from the plugin, then rendered in the Standalone, or via cloud rendering services.
http://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38837
.. and thankyou sir for that invisible idea. Any lighting tips to take me from noob to the same level of competency I have with Carrara lighting is most appreciated.
Whilst I'm waiting for Episode 9 to render in Carrara (the last one to go out under the native renderer), I am spending my time learning all about Octane lighting.
Lighting IS your presentation. IMHO. Get that right and everything looks better than one's current level of expertise is actually at.
Once I've got a handle on the tricks of the trade (to produce the lights) I shall be looking to see what corners can be cut to get an acceptable result much quicker. This is essential as an animator.
I'm also selling stuff on ebay to raise money to get a second GTX 760 (4gb version) or even a GTX 780 (4gb version). This would either double my render speeds or better giving me approx 2000 to 2500 cuda cores. atm That indoor scene of the Nightclub takes 6 mins and a few secs to render per frame (2000 samples), which is unacceptable.
Having read around, knowledge of the shortcuts (faking it) will dramatically improve results, plus the second card should be able to give me near instant test animations!! (allowing for some errors in the rendering with a lower sample rate for test renders).
The planned feature set for Octane Render Version 2 were just announced. Looks like there will be some significant features/improvements for Carrara/DS users and animators. The announcement can be found here:
http://render.otoy.com/newsblog/
Wow man! That's one major upgrade. Thanks for sharing.
AE integration, Network Rendering, Displacement mapping and Hair/Fur - This is catching the software up with the more established (biased) rendering suites big time.
Network Rendering is the big one for me. As an animator it's all a need for speed.
That's an impressive looking list for version 2.0. I hope that Carrara's hair will be able to interface to Octane's hair renderer (although that may be a big ask!).
I just hope they dont out price it for me, the tests I did in poser look promising :)
Some imperfect images to share as I learn.
First up. The dream of using the cloud is temporarily dead. (It's complex to use, not available in Europe, charged by the hour and not available for DAZ or Carrara).
This means that we Carrara/DAZ independents are restricted to our (probably one machine) rig. Therefore for animation PMC and Path tracing Kernels are out. (Far too slow).
It might shock some to know that the Direct Lighting kernel is not unbaised. It does seem to do a great job of GI though, and IMHO gives better results (at least for the untrained) that GI for Carrara.
The real test is indoors. Outdoors you can get away with one light (sun light). Indoors without PMC or Path tracing the image can go flat. It can look worse than Carrara's native renderer imho.
So I've tried a 3 point lighting set up that has served me well with Carrara - no good (so far). The lights interact, slow down the rendering and make the image flat again.
However - two point lighting for indoors is proving easier to work with. It is not correct though as the sun is coming from two places. So I've used the power settings to balance out the image as best I can. Therefore the shadows kind of make sense.
Here then are 3 images with my 2 point lighting set up (Direct lighting with sunlight and a White Emitter stuck behind a window, made invisible and tilted downwards slightly (not sure if the tilting is better yet).
They are all 2000 samples. The come out between 8 1/2 and 12 1/2 minutes per frame. So a lot slower than the 1 min 30 secs I'm used to with Carraras native indoor scenes. I usually rethink if it goes past 3 mins a frame.
Can't do this unless I accept more grain in the picture.
Also at this point in time I am limited to using the converted textures from DAZ (I am using this via DAZ until the Carrara vers comes out), which tend to come out flat, OR Octane materials from the free live database. Later I'll get into tweaking these.
Lastly, these images are all a WIP, as I struggle mainly with lighting but also material definitions in Octane.
p.s.
I'd appreciate any thoughts / help on how to do good skin. This is an area I've not looked into yet. I'd at least like to take a stab at improving skin. When I first made episode 1 back in 2010, I'd only just learned how to apply hi res skin textures, so it was a big leap up from the Pilot which had no skin textures applied.
since then the only improvement I've made with people is to light each character with 3 point lighting which tends to add interest to the figure more than realism.
If you're using Octane, I assume it can handle SSS? Carrara doesn't use SSS maps, but Octane may, so if you have any textures with those maps I would give it a shot. If not, you may be able to fake it using a spec map.
My little trick is to simulate SSS by dropping the color map of the figure in the glow channel and setting the brightness slider below the map's thumbnail to around 10%. Holly has suggested using a spec map with a color multiplier in the glow channel to drive the effect.
PhilW likes to use a very slight reflection on the skin. I don't recall the intensity exactly, but somewhere around 1 to 3% if I recall correctly.