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I don't know if it's dForce or what, but there's been fewer and fewer sexy clothes in the bundles (let alone the store. Just looking at V4 days versus now, or even Genesis 2). I don't like that the pro bundles have gotten less sexy over time. Like Penny 8... should be a sex symbol, the pro bundle comes with a calf-length "audacious" skirt and TWO ankle-length dresses with a conservative necklines. (I mean... why would I even dForce a dress like that? So there can be a little ripple on the hemline?! At least give me some drama in the bust if I'm going to dForce.) Lilith 6 to Lilith 7? They completely lost her edge between generations.
I also would rather have more skimpy clothing in the pro bundles, and more full coverage clothing be available in the store. The clothing is often a reason NOT to buy the pro bundles because they are so much more niche. It's not necessarily bad clothing if you're into that genre, but if it's not sexy, why am I going to use it?
It just strikes me how much I'm not installing out of these bundles lately. Sahira is nice, but I'm finding the clothing less and less optimal for my needs. Why would I want to render someone outside my interest area (sci fi) who is all covered in clothing? The fact that I need to buy stuff out of the store to make it work.
Meh. I guess I shouldn't have gotten this pro bundle. A la carte, sure, but I just don't do enough Pirate stuff (and this is surprisingly light on Pirate materials... with the Skull Island afterwards, and the Nautica outfit a little before? Why wasn't the dForce Nautica outfit in this one? Sparrows Mage just makes no sense here.)
I might use the Shawl from the Bucaneeress outfit & I'll use a good portion of the Sabriel outfit, but that might be it from the clothing. The rest doesn't seem as useful to kitbash. Not piratical enough, and not flexible enough to throw over sci fi body armor (or over nothing but skin for the pinup, either).
Sparrows Mage looks 100% like fantasy clothing to me. And maybe you have a different definition of sexy but I don't need to see a woman naked for her to be sexy.
The only clothing that I don't like nor find sexy in the sahira bundle is the Fair tides outfit. And with Penny it's clear they were going for the 1920s vibe. That skirt was audacious for that period and the breakfast date dress looks a lot more revealing than I would expect for a breakfast dress in that period.
If you like skimpwear just say that, don't say that clothes are less sexy. Say that are not skimpy enough for you.
I mean who would wear this https://www.daz3d.com/nyx-outfit-for-genesis-2-female-s ? I get it it's fantasy but what you are referring to sounds more like sex fantasy than real fantasy.
I'm not trying to say that would should change what you want from the store or your preferences. I'm just saying to call it what it is.
I picked up the pro bundles for both Valentino and Sahira and will eventually use all their clothes and hair, but for now I mostly wanted their character bases and add-ons. So here are some renders of them as an every day couple.
Amusingly, this is closer to the historic portrait of a pirate than any of the bundle outfits.
Now, talking in general here, not the bundled clothes. But, my main problem with most the "practical" clothing is it's usually visually really, really boring. The shoes often seem the worst offenders. Now, as soon as someone mentions "this wouldn't work because" then they're missing the point. People complain about how "practical" things are, but creative things and shouldn't be slaves to perceptions of "reality".
Speaking of perceptions. It's weird how there's one team claiming there's no "sexy" stuff and the other claiming that's all there is. (Still looking for a pair of high heels I'd actually wear, and no I don't mean more grandma heels. I'm talking about something that would be labeled as "ankle breakers" and "heels you can't move in". But I somehow have no trouble with...)
Quick portrait of Sahira. I really like her! (makeup Alawa 8, eye color Babina 8).
Being a person who has trouble in heels, I'd say it's one thing to wear them to the movies or to the mall, but quite another to wear them on a swaying and bobbing ship where you're forced to constantly compensate with your center of gravity to stay upright...or fighting where you must pivot on your ankles without losing your balance. I remember reading an article about the glorious Amazonian warriors complaining about the heels they were forced to wear during the production of Wonder Worman...along with all the sprained ankles on set. Heels are not practical for anything other than civilian wear.
It's all well and good if one wants to make the "traditional" fantasy art of the nearly-naked warrior goddess. There's gobs of stuff available to do that. Then there are people (like me) who want to make fantasy art with a bit more of a "realistic" edge...as realistic as something in a fantasy realm could seem. I do sci-fi and medieval fantasy...and in both I prefer my female models to be clothed without boob windows, boob cups, belly-button holes, and of course...without spike heels. One may consider that boring...but...I don't. And a lot of people don't. It's just a matter of taste. I recently finished a piece with a kitbash of full armor for one of my original characters (Lord of the Rings) and I think it's anything but boring. I don't think the imminent threat of lady bit exposure needs to be front and center for a woman to be sexy. That goes for male characters as well...because the nearly-naked "classical" fantasy image extends to men too. I can think of two perfect examples of the sort of costume design I like to see...for both men and women...The Lord of the Rings trilogy and the show Vikings. I doubt anybody would say Lagertha isn't sexy af. And when we're talking pirates...I'll go with Black Sails (Anne Bonny's character wears men's clothing...and pulls it off...which would probably be pretty accurate because that's what would have been available). Or hell, even Pirates of the Caribbean. All that is just my preference...and it's exponentially more challenging to find stuff to garb a character out with than if I were to look for skimp-wear. (And yes I agree, that culturally, some pirates would wear something similar to the bare-chest with vest look and that's fine...though I doubt heels would be involved, lol.)
I totally agree with you. I think that thankfully fantasy is finally evolving from the skimpwear outfits. Just look at the Witcher TV show. Very well done, very sexy ladies. They are not wearing skimpwear.
And about the bare-chest vest look, I am sure lady pirates were not going for that. I imagine it was pretty hard to be a woman on a pirate ship without being a target of all the mens attention.
And skimpwear is a lot easier to make than other clothing as there are less morphs needed to conform to different sizes and poses. So there is a more effort put into quality clothing.
I would not mind if they did some sort of surface zones so that the outfits can morph into skimpier versions for who is interested but I hope they keep up with the more clothed versions.
I really wish the majority of PA's had this mindset. I'm also one of those who prefer more realistic clothing even in my Sci-fi wacky renders. I bought the Sky Jumper sci fi outfit because it looked great and normal in the promo pics, I think it looks great from the front but I didn't realize that it has a giant exposed gap in the back that makes no sense at all and I've been trying to find a way to cover that gap up but don't know how. But that's a bit OT for this thread so I'll start a new one for that issue.
Oh yes...The Witcher has amazing costume design. Top knotch.
And to your point about the bare-chest look, if it's part of the culture, it may not be a target for the male libido...exposed breasts are fairly common in some cultures. However, as a wearer of The Boobage, I can tell you that not having them strapped down and covered can be quite uncomfortable for those of us cursed (it's not a blessing, belive me) with more on top than others. It's not easy to function with them flopping around freely. (And yes, despite the majority of 3D boobs depicted pretty much everywhere, real big boobs flop...and flop they do.)
Yep - exactly what I thought when I saw the full outfit. :)
The thing about Sparrows Mage is that I've got plenty that look quite like that. Full coverage bodice, flappy arms, shawl, high heels.
I'm not against conservative dress or full coverage (pull out all my sci fi shots in this thread), but it's not a selling point for me when it comes to the Pro bundles unless it fits the niche I want... and I even passed on Alawa because her whole deal didn't appeal to me.
The more cloth there is, the less nicely it'll play with anything else. That Nautica vest and sash, I can throw onto body armor... but it inexplicably wasn't part of this one. Sparrows Mage? The pieces are all pretty specific to Sparrows Mage, even the shawl, if you look at its setup.
Maybe the Tides cape (unclasped?) can be useful, but I have enough capes, which are silly anyway. Sabriel, I can use, and Buccaneeress, I can see using.
I'm not saying it's not "sexy" wear. That's the intent of Sparrows Mage. But it's generally very tame wear, and it's been very full coverage in Genesis 8 especially. "There's plenty in the store"? Yes, but it's not selling me on the pro bundle. This is my criticism of the Genesis 8 bundles, almost universally. It's been the deals that have sold me on the bundles, and not the outfits anymore. Sahira was, after my banner coupon, at a pretty deep discount.
To me, I'd rather have more Pro bundles that grab me and make me want to pay more... as nice as Sahira is, the bundle wasn't what I was after (outside of pricing).
Consequently, I bought the bundle without a second thought specifically for your reasons of hesitation in that they are less skimpy overall. I'm pretty sure those who want skimpy outfits have been catered to for a long time, as that is the standing "norm" with fantasy...is it really so bad that there are a few occasions when they are not? The simple fact of the matter is that not everybody can be happy and catered to 100% of the time.
In regards to kitbashing, with a little work I think most of the outfits in the bundle would blend quite nicely as parts to make up a new whole. I don't believe I'd use any of them in their complete state.
I think it's funny when I hear people talk about clothing being "practical" especially when it comes to sci-fi and fantasy clothes. I don't see people nitpicking over sci-fi sets arguing that a monitor placement is not practical. Or if you really want to see impractical clothing, actually try on historical clothes. When I was an extra in movies, I had to wear a hoop skirt with actual bloomers and a whole lot of miscellaneous odd clothing underneath which made it literally impossible to go to the bathroom. I honestly don't know how they went to the bathroom back then, did someone hold up their skirt? Try going in a modern stall with that thing! The point is, until recently, when a fashion statement means a hoodie and jeans, fashion was not meant to be practical and may not be in the future.
It depends on the era, but generally they just stood over a pot. Technically it was more efficient than now, you didnt have to take anything off. A lot of history womens indergarmets were a shift, you dont get drawers until the Victorian era really and many of those were "open" which is a polite way of saying crotchless
edit now with art!
historical efficency!
De gustibus non est disputandum - these discussions never reach a conclusion, other than a thread-lock if they become combative, so it's best to live and let get chomped by a tyranosaurus when the high heel gets stuck in a crevice
The clothing discussion has been done multiple times. I think we've reached the end of this one.
Let's see what people render out of the bundle, I guess.
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Just messing around again. This is Josephene 8 (not Sahira), but I applied Sahira's makeup with just clicking (again).
That's just very useful. I can do this with other base figure makeups that use the Diffuse Overlay, but Sahira's makeup requires no extra GIMP work.
It certainly existed in it's bucaneer form ear
Nice render.
One more... SASE Jazz from the bundle.(more or or less out of the box, slightly bigger head). High neckline shirt :-) not from bundle.
She's got the look of a SASE character - it's a good standard, I think. Very cute. The LIE cross tattoo tells me she isn't a Corsair (haha), but she could still be a Pirate.
If it's fashion clothing, I would not expect it to be practical. If it's day to day clothing, especially for someone who plans to run/fight and do other intense activities in it, I do.
In my opinion fantasy should not relate to everything in the world. If the character is a human, and gravitation still applies, I would expect heels to work the same way in our world and not be easy to run in.
The fantasy part is the world setting, or a magic system or whatever the author has thought of that is fantastical. Same with SciFi. Now, if there is a nation/tribe whatever you want of people that are ok with nudity in different forms, I would would be ok with some of the skimpier outfits, or even bare chests or whatever is part of their culture. I would still expect everything to be practical though so if the men, let's say were using armor in battle, I would expect the women to be using one too, and one that covers everything, so they don't get stabbed easily.
As an example that has nothing to do with clothing: a movie or a book that has time travel in it but has no logic to follow that through and some weird things happen would not appeal to me. I would think the author was lazy in writing it. For example there are things in Harry Potter that make little sense to me as there are plenty of spells and other ways of dealing with problems that are only used once and never again. Even though they would be handy in a lot more situations. One simple example that comes to mind is the time turner from book 3 that doesn't get used again even though of it's potential to help in dealing with Voldemort.
At the same time I look at this from a book world perspective first. I don't expect everyone to have the same views as me, it's just the way I see things when it comes to fantasy/SciFi.
In my case at least, It's not simply about being practical, is about being functional. Like how would someone go out to space with this? https://www.daz3d.com/andromeda-sci-fi-outfit-for-genesis-8-female-s
I do love (and need) sexy outfits, but i hate non functional. I'm trying to tell stories so I can't use a space outfit with an open chest; the moment you have bare skin exposed in space as if it were a walk in a park everything goes to shi*. That is supose to be an space suit but at best is an extravagant biker "clothe thing".....i was going to say armor, but with the open chest it cannot be even that.
Another example, this one is clearly more pinup tho: https://www.daz3d.com/dark-space-outfit-and-weapons-for-genesis-8-females
Why can't that outfit have complete lower part matching? I mean, as an option. Is just so good looking, but it can only work as pinup. WHY????? It's a waste it can't be both (at least out of the box). If you are trying to tell a story, and you want it spicy, a sexy but functional outfit is better than only sexy or only functional. Even if it is a sexy comedy, that outfit will not work the moment a character needs to actually be out in space.
BTW, Is Midnight Stories the only PA with the clear understanding of the purpose of the outfits making proper working Space suites and armors for males and females? I guess Yura has a couple too, but several times not for M/F.
From Sahira bundle (that i like in general and i'm going to buy today) the Sparrow outfit i find really odd. It's fantasy (or even sci-fi). But fantasy does no equal Pinup..... so why on ANY EARTH does it has High Heels??? It remided me of my disgust with recent icecream parlor, a perfectly functional scenario but with a waitress oufit and poses with high heels. Poor waitress. Yes, i know that is easy fixable with a different footwear and some pose correction, but it should not need fixing. Even more recent, the same thing by the same authors with the School bundle, they created an amazing scenario with multiple functional full rooms (not vignetes) and decided to pair it with another pinup waiter outfit......well at least it seems they also added functional gym clothes this time.
There are plenty of both fantasy and practical outfits for every genre available. No one has to accept anyone else's arbitrary rules.
I thought I'd see how Sahira looked with Girl 8 dialed in about 40% and I think she looks great!
First Render with Sahira, Original can be seen at my Flickr site. (see sig)
That's not a hoop skirt. Hoop skirts are HUGE and have metal spring-like thing inside. It's more like wearing an open umbrella that can spring up inside out. And on top of that you have a ridiculously tight corset that you can hardly breathe in. No wonder so many women had heaving bosoms and fainted a lot back then. But the hoop skirt is just really awkward. I felt like I Love Lucy in one of her slapstick routines trying to manipulate that thing in a bathroom stall. The one I had was a lot wider than the one in the photo too!
Back on topic, I do not like High Seas Hair. The bandana cap is much too thick!
So far I like her and:
https://www.daz3d.com/sabriel-outfit-for-genesis-8-females
https://www.daz3d.com/wild-waves-hair-for-genesis-8-females
https://www.daz3d.com/z-adventurous-spirit-poses-and-expressions-for-sahira-8
Would like to recreate the look from the promo:
Does anybody know what hair is used there?
It is not included in the Pro bundle.
Short Classy Hair, I think.
I like the way she takes expressions. Used the eye makeup but the map for no lipstick with some added glossiness and a few other small changes.