Make a living?

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Comments

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,234
    edited December 1969

    It would certainly be refreshing to stumble upon some "Emotion and Movements of Art" discussions. It seems that when such subjects are brought up, as rare as that is, they quickly turn to the use of software....

    You won't see those discussions. Guaranteed....

    Um, just as a starter, Dreamlight tutorials are based mostly on that.

  • MalusMalus Posts: 370
    edited February 2013

    What league am I in just by look at this image http://the--grimreaper.deviantart.com/art/Mushroom-Picking-355492899, if you want you can check the others out. I made it extra bumpy on purpose. Some people can hit the post button faster then I can there is already another post up. If you want to see the google plus one here it is https://plus.google.com/u/0/114148978503449330959/posts

    I can't get rid of that comma after the you up above

    Post edited by Malus on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,323
    edited February 2013

    What league am I in just by look at this image http://the--grimreaper.deviantart.com/art/Mushroom-Picking-355492899, if you want you can check the others out. I made it extra bumpy on purpose. Some people can hit the post button faster then I can there is already another post up. If you want to see the google plus one here it is https://plus.google.com/u/0/114148978503449330959/posts

    I can't get rid of that comma after the you up above

    If you're going to render toon characters, the realistic style and dark lighting is not usually going to be a good idea (and I think the lighting in general needs work). Do you have anything you've done from the concept up rather than others' intellectual properties?

    I don't want to be unkind, but it looks like you're a way out from any sort of commercial use of your renders.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • MalusMalus Posts: 370
    edited December 1969

    Well that one isn't the greatest because it is a software I'm not familiar with (I really haven't got the hang of maya). I couldn't use carrara because I created the UV's in maya and maya isn't very nice with exporting stuff (the student version). Mostly with concept I just jot it down on paper in stick figure form and then make it in 3D, so all I have is the final product to see.
    Here is one of my own design http://the--grimreaper.deviantart.com/art/A-peek-at-a-tiny-huge-world-343805607 .

    Another http://the--grimreaper.deviantart.com/art/The-City-in-space-Close-up-of-the-Building-343327442 . One of my older original design http://the--grimreaper.deviantart.com/art/Fuzzy-Couple-In-The-Snow-256859143 .

    Some are test and some I put up just in case someone wants to see it.

    This one was just a bland test I put up http://the--grimreaper.deviantart.com/art/Space-Duck-Space-ship-342802159 .

    I have other 3D conceptual renders just for my personal use so they are not the prettiest things around so they are not up there.
    I'm going to take it as I'm not very good considering... anyways there is some links. (This one is full of bad engrish sorry for that)

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,323
    edited December 1969

    A lot of these seem to be imitating the style of a Nintendo 3d game. A screen from such a game looks like this: http://www.gamedynamo.com/images/galleries/photo/765/the-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time-3d-review-1.jpg


    Yes, that looks primitive - but it also upholds an important rule of the visual design. Everything in a scene, every tree and blade of grass and clothing piece, is intended to reinforce the same visual theme and style. A toon render must be this way to hold up visually. Any render really should. You don't mix realistic blades of grass and deep shadows with your bright toon figures and simple backdrops. You get some chunky toon grass and light it brightly and ideally without too much ambient occlusion, or with a toon camera setup. If you do a dark render, that's much harder, but it's still doable - pick scenes from the game and look at how they did it.


    Even a good game's enemies and "bad" areas don't clash with the overall look of the game. This is why you see games like Binding of Isaac and Penumbra upheld as great examples of design even though they're more primitive in graphics - because they are true to their themes and they are beautifully consistent within those.


    These games and those like them are also great examples of what Joe has been harping on about evoking emotion in the viewer. Nothing in Binding of Isaac stops it from being disturbing and freakish. Most Zelda games use their simpler, cartoonish visuals to reinforce to the viewer that everything is okay even in the game's darker moments, keeping them suitable for younger audiences.


    When you can say to yourself, "today I'm going to do a scary render in a toon style," or "today I'm going to do a render that will make a child laugh using only steampunk characters and sets," and succeed at both of those with the audience, then you are ready to look at offering your visuals commercially.


    I freely admit, I often fail at this. That's also why I don't try to sell purely renders or rendering services.

  • MalusMalus Posts: 370
    edited December 1969

    Ok.. models it is lol. I recently lost my source of weak income so my wife said I better become a magician with my computer and make money. So I decided to see what kind of help I could get. I really need to slow down on my modeling and rendering and be very careful on detail when it comes to selling my models.

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,615
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    It would certainly be refreshing to stumble upon some "Emotion and Movements of Art" discussions. It seems that when such subjects are brought up, as rare as that is, they quickly turn to the use of software....

    You won't see those discussions. Guaranteed....

    Um, just as a starter, Dreamlight tutorials are based mostly on that.

    Wow, excellent point. I never thought of that. I guess I stand corrected. There are ALWAYS discussions about art and emotion in this forum.

    Thanks for setting me straight.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,633
    edited December 1969

    VFX/CG/Animation biz is getting as bad as getting into radio which has been my main livelihood since 1972.
    A smile like that belongs on TV anyways, Kevin! So, what do you do now?
    I am transitioning as we speak, from the brutal toils of stone labor into CGI. The hardest part being this darned chair - and the walls. The lack of birds, no breeze off the lake or rustling foliage. Okay now I'm depressing myself. It's a really hard transition. Stone may be hard on the body and fingers, but I think walking away from it is harder on your body and fingers. Maybe I'll have to do some degree of that on the side?
  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,301
    edited December 1969

    VFX/CG/Animation biz is getting as bad as getting into radio which has been my main livelihood since 1972.
    A smile like that belongs on TV anyways, Kevin! So, what do you do now?
    I am transitioning as we speak, from the brutal toils of stone labor into CGI. The hardest part being this darned chair - and the walls. The lack of birds, no breeze off the lake or rustling foliage. Okay now I'm depressing myself. It's a really hard transition. Stone may be hard on the body and fingers, but I think walking away from it is harder on your body and fingers. Maybe I'll have to do some degree of that on the side?

    Awe, thanks, Dart! I do traffic reports for Total Traffic Network here in Detroit, in the mornings on Fox 2 News Morning (off camera) and in the afternoons on WWJ Newsradio 950. The DJ days are long gone, but I still do a weekly radio show that airs on a couple stations with flutist Alexander Zonjic. He's the host and I'm the engineer-sidekick. We did mornings for 12 years on Smooth Jazz V98.7 - I've been on Fox 2 since shortly after that ended in late 2009 when I was re-assigned to them and was also assigned the afternoon shift on WWJ last November. Until then I was filling in on other stations with traffic and news reports in the second part of my day. A split shift wears you out but at least I have a job.

    You should open a window when the weather allows or move your computer out to a porch if you can. You could garden, too.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,633
    edited December 1969

    You could garden, too.
    My garden is insane awesome! Rosie wanted a high-maintenance garden... I gave her a high-maintenance garden. Many people drive here from Chicago (4 - 5 hour drive) just to walk through it - at which point I usually offer a fresh cut bouquet. Nobody ever says no to that - and I love doing it. I live right downtown on the main drag of the tiniest city imaginable where the Ahnapee River meets Lake Michigan. The air surrounding our yard changes. You can feel a diameter of sweet air as you walk closer. Neighborhood children come and play in the gentle rain of my irrigation system that surrounds the lot and makes multiple rainbows in the hot summer sun. I am a happy little guy!
    We gotta get you outta Detroit! Come to Algoma.... we'll get you set up!
  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,301
    edited December 1969

    You could garden, too.
    My garden is insane awesome! Rosie wanted a high-maintenance garden... I gave her a high-maintenance garden. Many people drive here from Chicago (4 - 5 hour drive) just to walk through it - at which point I usually offer a fresh cut bouquet. Nobody ever says no to that - and I love doing it. I live right downtown on the main drag of the tiniest city imaginable where the Ahnapee River meets Lake Michigan. The air surrounding our yard changes. You can feel a diameter of sweet air as you walk closer. Neighborhood children come and play in the gentle rain of my irrigation system that surrounds the lot and makes multiple rainbows in the hot summer sun. I am a happy little guy!
    We gotta get you outta Detroit! Come to Algoma.... we'll get you set up!

    Maybe when I'm retired. ;)

  • ZyloxZylox Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    It would certainly be refreshing to stumble upon some "Emotion and Movements of Art" discussions. It seems that when such subjects are brought up, as rare as that is, they quickly turn to the use of software....

    You won't see those discussions. Guaranteed....

    Um, just as a starter, Dreamlight tutorials are based mostly on that.

    Wow, excellent point. I never thought of that. I guess I stand corrected. There are ALWAYS discussions about art and emotion in this forum.

    Thanks for setting me straight.


    You know, there is a whole range of possibilities between always and never. I have seen several discussions of art in these forums over the years. They may not be common, but they have occurred. It would be nice if they happened more often.

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    Zylox said:
    Gedd said:
    It would certainly be refreshing to stumble upon some "Emotion and Movements of Art" discussions. It seems that when such subjects are brought up, as rare as that is, they quickly turn to the use of software....

    You won't see those discussions. Guaranteed....

    Um, just as a starter, Dreamlight tutorials are based mostly on that.

    Wow, excellent point. I never thought of that. I guess I stand corrected. There are ALWAYS discussions about art and emotion in this forum.

    Thanks for setting me straight.


    You know, there is a whole range of possibilities between always and never. I have seen several discussions of art in these forums over the years. They may not be common, but they have occurred. It would be nice if they happened more often.

    most of the time it do you think my art is super
    then o yes
    then o think you - yours is super to
    then pat on the ass
    and so on

    or its whats art
    and goes down hill from there

  • ZyloxZylox Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    @bigh - lol, that is pretty common isn't it :lol:


    It is nice when people actually ask for advice and others share their knowledge and ideas.

  • Moss_35089Moss_35089 Posts: 20
    edited December 1969

    Awe, thanks, Dart! I do traffic reports for Total Traffic Network here in Detroit, in the mornings on Fox 2 News Morning (off camera) and in the afternoons on WWJ Newsradio 950. The DJ days are long gone, but I still do a weekly radio show that airs on a couple stations with flutist Alexander Zonjic. He's the host and I'm the engineer-sidekick. We did mornings for 12 years on Smooth Jazz V98.7 - I've been on Fox 2 since shortly after that ended in late 2009 when I was re-assigned to them and was also assigned the afternoon shift on WWJ last November. Until then I was filling in on other stations with traffic and news reports in the second part of my day. A split shift wears you out but at least I have a job.

    You should open a window when the weather allows or move your computer out to a porch if you can. You could garden, too.

    off topic, but hehe, next time i'm cruising along the river i'll wave across to ya', i'm a southern neighbour
    i grew up (from age 11 anyway) on the same street as Alex, hung around with his brother Kosta
    next time i listen for the traffic reports when i'm heading stateside i'll see if its you
    M

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,301
    edited December 1969

    Moss said:
    Awe, thanks, Dart! I do traffic reports for Total Traffic Network here in Detroit, in the mornings on Fox 2 News Morning (off camera) and in the afternoons on WWJ Newsradio 950. The DJ days are long gone, but I still do a weekly radio show that airs on a couple stations with flutist Alexander Zonjic. He's the host and I'm the engineer-sidekick. We did mornings for 12 years on Smooth Jazz V98.7 - I've been on Fox 2 since shortly after that ended in late 2009 when I was re-assigned to them and was also assigned the afternoon shift on WWJ last November. Until then I was filling in on other stations with traffic and news reports in the second part of my day. A split shift wears you out but at least I have a job.

    You should open a window when the weather allows or move your computer out to a porch if you can. You could garden, too.

    off topic, but hehe, next time i'm cruising along the river i'll wave across to ya', i'm a southern neighbour
    i grew up (from age 11 anyway) on the same street as Alex, hung around with his brother Kosta
    next time i listen for the traffic reports when i'm heading stateside i'll see if its you
    M

    Hi, Moss! You're from Windsor, too, eh? Alexander (he doesn't like being called Alex anymore) has some fun stories when they were kids and you probably figured into some!

  • Moss_35089Moss_35089 Posts: 20
    edited December 1969

    Moss said:
    Awe, thanks, Dart! I do traffic reports for Total Traffic Network here in Detroit, in the mornings on Fox 2 News Morning (off camera) and in the afternoons on WWJ Newsradio 950. The DJ days are long gone, but I still do a weekly radio show that airs on a couple stations with flutist Alexander Zonjic. He's the host and I'm the engineer-sidekick. We did mornings for 12 years on Smooth Jazz V98.7 - I've been on Fox 2 since shortly after that ended in late 2009 when I was re-assigned to them and was also assigned the afternoon shift on WWJ last November. Until then I was filling in on other stations with traffic and news reports in the second part of my day. A split shift wears you out but at least I have a job.

    You should open a window when the weather allows or move your computer out to a porch if you can. You could garden, too.

    off topic, but hehe, next time i'm cruising along the river i'll wave across to ya', i'm a southern neighbour
    i grew up (from age 11 anyway) on the same street as Alex, hung around with his brother Kosta
    next time i listen for the traffic reports when i'm heading stateside i'll see if its you
    M

    Hi, Moss! You're from Windsor, too, eh? Alexander (he doesn't like being called Alex anymore) has some fun stories when they were kids and you probably figured into some!

    hehe, yep, did 'Alexander' ever mention tumbling (just for a dime) in the big dryers at the laundromat about 6 houses from his, ot he railroad cut...lol, i think if you use those term should shake his memory

    did you grow up in the detroit area?

    M

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,301
    edited February 2013

    The laundromat story sounds familiar, but the one I recall is his friends blowing up stuff and a friend got some glass shrapnel. I grew up in Battle Creek. I've lived in this area since 1977... moved from Ann Arbor to Detroit in 1978, lived downtown for 14 years and have lived in Farmington Hills since.

    Post edited by Kevin Sanderson on
  • timlemitimlemi Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Sorry, if this thread is meant to be dead, in that case just ignore my interruption ...

    Having had a discussion nearly identical to the question the thread opener posted ("how do I make a living from ... - insert whatever hobby you want") I'd like to offer my point of view.

    Headline: Making a living from something you love to do is possible and not too difficult, in fact it is a lot easier than making a living from something you hate to do.

    Idea: I would seperate the question into three elements:
    - how do (stress on) I (stress off) make a living?
    - how do I make a (stress on) living (stress off)?
    - how do I make a living from doing (stress on) 3d stuff (stress off)?

    Elements one and two relate. Making a living from something depends on customers wanting to pay for a specific good. If what you do - wherever - is something other people pay money for, you have a good starting position. Have a look at market prices, compare your skills to what is offered as a standard and start your PR campaign. No advertising means no customers. You might get customers through "word by mouth", but again that depends on you offering something people want to have.
    Example: I sometimes work for some guys doing video presentations. They contacted me due to some demos I did that met their specific type of humor and expectations. From that cooperations I did get more jobs - but he basic demos where what paved the way.

    3d stuff, like most craft work, is NOT about the tool, but about the craft. For what you are showing off, if you go for "selling art", the TOOL is of no importance. You have to know how lighting works. You have to understand how a scene setup works. You have to understand how dramatics work. You have to understand a bit about cutting (if you work for motion pictures). You have to have more than basic biology facts at hand (anatomy etc). Your physics have to be at least at grammar school level. All these simple things exclude about 95% of the "kids" mentioned in this thread from "making a living".

    If this example is allowed: Most of what the DAZ shop displays would never sell me the product. Even if the products may actually be great, the way they are presented is not. Recently I needed a very specific TREE IMAGE for a paid job. It did not matter if it was a photo or a 3d object. I needed it NOW and I needed it in a specific frame. I did browse the DAZ shop library, found several "tree objects" - and quickly left the site, because the presentation was so way off from anything I could use for "a living" that I may have missed a really good product. I ended up in buying a photo license and doing more than an hour of Photoshop work to get what I needed.
    I would have paid someone to do a render in Carrara if I knew he/she had an object and the capabilities to get the job done in time and with an usable result. NOT the qulity the DAZ shop shows, but professionally. Would have been a 100 Dollar job. Doing this type of job 3 times a day, 7 days a week might make a living.

    About 97% of the 3d images one can find on the web are show-stoppers. Trying to sell a 3d-image to a customer who needs an IMAGE, not "THREE DE AT ANY COST", that looks like it's been done in Poser 1 won't pay the rent. It does not matter if it's 3d or mouth-painted, as long as it meets the requirements. Remember: "The customer's always right" - especially when he's completely wrong.

    On the other hand, there are jobs that require specific tool knowledge. If someone needs a C4d expert, it does not help a lot if you're an artist that works with ... well, let's say "Carrara". Again: The requirement usually is to get a job done. Time is money. Having to browse through the menus to find the workflow you are after when your collegue has done his part already will quickly get you fired. So if you are NOT an craftsman that sells RESULTS, you might be a WORKER that handles tools perfectly. You should know the standard tools in the industry then. Being limited to a hand full of hobbyist's tools might not be the perfect solution, then.

    I apologize for the long text.

    Gust

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,633
    edited December 1969

    timlemi said:
    Sorry, if this thread is meant to be dead, in that case just ignore my interruption ...

    Having had a discussion nearly identical to the question the thread opener posted ("how do I make a living from ... - insert whatever hobby you want") I'd like to offer my point of view.

    I apologize for the long text.

    Gust

    Ignore this? Are you kidding? I wish this was the very first answer, not to belittle that - everybody has their take.
    I also believe the long text necessary. What a fine, well-written article! Your English is much better than you give yourself credit for!
    Thanks for the response! Welcome to the Carrara community. I hope you stick around and add more of your thoughts.

    If you decide to write some lessons, or whatever, I'll link them within the ►►► Carrara Information Manual ◄◄◄ thread.

  • DreamlightDreamlight Posts: 282
    edited April 2013

    Interesting topic guys! I've successfully turned my hobby, 3D graphics into a multiple 6-figure income. Luck has nothing to do with it. I've been in the offline + online marketing industry for the last 15 years, and here's the options you have as an artist, based on my own experience (not theory):

    1. Build a small empire at DAZ 3D. Go for high quality products, find your own niche and go for it with all your heart. It's lots of work, and it will take lots of time to build up. Aim for 100, 200 or more products and you'll create a nice decent income. I'm NOT making ANY income claims whatsoever. The good side is that DAZ will do the selling, and you can focus on the products only.

    2. Go your own route, like I have, besides being a bestselling DAZ vendor, and create your own line of information products. That involves marketing AND product creation. This is more advanced, but has the potential of unlimited income, since you're in 100% control (and collect 100% of the income). Again, I'm not making ANY income claims.

    And I'm originally a poor school drop out...

    Either way, you must have the following qualities to succeed:

    1. BIG compelling vision. This is not something you try. You go in FULL FORCE and never give up UNTIL you're where you want to be.
    2. Guts
    3. Know your limits and take help of a team or outsources stuff you're not good at
    4. Invest time
    5. Invest money (mostly in option 2 at the top)
    6. Letting go of complaining and taking FULL responsibility of your own results
    7. Grow each day, so that you don't fall back to your normal daily habits
    8. Go against your fear, because it will otherwise hold you back
    9. Support from your spouse, friends or other successful people on a daily basis
    10. Take disappointment well
    11. Let go of perfection and aim for maximum action with MASSIVE progress
    12. Have clear goals (income + rewards and such)

    There's of course more to it, but this is what worked for me, and I've been studying this for a long time, with personal experience, results and over $50k invested in online marketing training.

    Hope that helps!

    I'd like to end with:

    Either you think it's possible, or not... You're RIGHT.

    P.S. One of my training products, the 3D Model Master (sold here at DAZ) is a complete guide on how to create an income by letting other people sell your 3D props

    P.S.S. It has very little to do with your own skill level, because you can leverage other people's skills. Marketing ALWAYS wins when you compare a good product vs a decent product. McDonalds is not the best hamburger in the world, but they have the best marketing. Having that said, you should not settle for "decent". Go for the best, but strive for progress, never perfection.

    Post edited by Dreamlight on
  • DreamlightDreamlight Posts: 282
    edited December 1969

    JoeMamma, VERY WELL SAID! Exactly, marketing is listening to the audience, not so much what you want to do, which many artists tend to do. (Including me in the start, lol)

    Wow. A whole lot of fancy, high sounding stuff that I think basically misses the point.

    What we're talking about is doing art and making a living at it. When you make a living at 3D, or any other art, you are doing something FOR OTHERS. You are producing stuff that others want to look at. Very simple.

    And for others to want to look at what you produce, you have to speak their language and know how to tell them a story or make them feel a certain way or react a certain way. And beyond just knowing a bunch of rules, if you're going to be really good, you need to also have an inherent ability to generate awesome stuff that REALLY serves the purpose of evoking certain things in an audience. It's called TALENT. An natural ability to put things together in just the right way to make a huge impact. Nobody can teach you that.

    That's why Pixar does so well, they have TALENT. That's why Disney does so well. They know how to strike a chord in audiences and speak their language and make them feel really good and tell them stories they want to hear. That's why great advertising firms do well, they know how to make their audiences want a product. And on and on.

    Few people can do that. Very few. You can have every skill, know how to operate every piece of software on the planet, but fail miserably at telling a story or evoking emotions in your audience.

    But a concept like that is very difficult for most hobbyists to comprehend. Many hobbyists, including many here, don't think in terms of others with what they produce, they do it for their own satisfaction. They have absolutely no concept of what it takes to evoke certain emotions in an audience, or tell a story that will have impact. Nor do they even care about any of that.

    That's one reason why it is so difficult for the average hobbyist who downloads some free software and calls himself an artist to actually cross that bridge to becoming a great, or even good, commercial artist.

    But nobody wants to hear that, so I'm sure I'll get trounced once again.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,004
    edited December 1969

    Don't forget the constant, folder filling, multiple times per day, SPAM! :roll:

  • GarstorGarstor Posts: 1,411
    edited December 1969

    Don't forget the constant, folder filling, multiple times per day, SPAM! :roll:

    Ah yes! That tasty DreamLight SPAM. Now with added vitriol for "morons!"

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 2,802
    edited December 1969

    murph101 said:
    How do 3D artists make a living?

    I have been dabbling in Carrara for several years but always towards my own ends of one project or another. I usually use a 3D piece as an intro or outro for a video project, but it's been strictly a "nice-to-have" feature. Largely, it's been a hobby, rather than a money maker.

    I'm curious as to how other 3D artists make a living, and how prominently Carrara is a featured tool.

    Where does one get gigs in which they can utilize their 3D skills?

    If I were to expend the time and energy ramp up my Carrara skills, what kind of paying opportunities exist out there?

    Having skimmed all the responses and how the thread swayed, in answer to your question, from my point of view, yes. I support my family with my work in 3D (Daz). It's definitely an attainable goal. Only took me about 18 months to two years of practice before I felt comfortable with going pro with anything, and those early covers sucked, lol, but it's very doable.

    I do believe my traditional art background has helped immensely, plus, I was already a working book cover artist before I picked up this medium, but that wasn't what you asked. ;D

    Myself, most of my jobs come from Twitter.

  • SadKitty_CarraraSadKitty_Carrara Posts: 21,948
    edited December 1969

    I created a new bank account today for my potential Youtube earnings

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    I created a new bank account today for my potential Youtube earnings

    good one - laughing :-)

  • SadKitty_CarraraSadKitty_Carrara Posts: 21,948
    edited December 1969

    bigh said:
    I created a new bank account today for my potential Youtube earnings

    good one - laughing :-)
    I am serious, I did

  • MiloMilo Posts: 499
    edited December 1969

    I hope you do very well Wendy!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,633
    edited December 1969

    I created a new bank account today for my potential Youtube earnings
    Awesome!
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