Question about ArtStation
Wonderland
Posts: 6,740
in The Commons
I was wondering if anyone who has an account there is successful at selling prints and if the the pro account is worth it. Thanks.
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I don't know about selling prints, but it's very professional and seems geared more towards industry people and those seeking work than other sites. I have a Pro account but it was not worth it for me because I get a fraction of the views and comments that I do on deviantArt, not to mention I'm reluctant to post most of my more fantasy fighting/skimpwear imagery on that sort of site.
It's funny because all my professional actual comic book covers are sexy/skimpy so not sure if I should upload them. It seems silly that they seem so strict about sexuality, even way more than here, when most comic book covers and actual wardrobe in sci-fi/fantasy movies are pretty skimpy. I'm more interested in selling prints since I don't have the professional skills for those kinds of jobs (like Maya, Unity, etc..) and most jobs seem to be out of the U.S. anyway.
This is a tangent but it seems like a good place to drop it: a lot of artists had Tumblr blogs to promote their art prior to the 18+ content ban and did pretty good business there. The site is still in its infancy and posting can be slow, but some folks are starting to move over to Pillowfort.social, a similar site with broad content allowances. I have some keys for the beta if anyone wants a place to post work that's more archival than Twitter but less "day job" than Artstation, or if you're not sure you'll use it but want to grab a username in case. DM me if you're interested!
I will DM you thanks. Also it seems that you hardly make any money on Art Station. You have to really hike up the price just to get what you'd make at a comic convention!
Is this only thread about ArtStation? If not, sorry for "highjacking"...
Anyway, i'm just angry as i can't actually signup there, as phone verification doesnt work, linkedin is banned by my net provider (and never wanted to use it anyway), and no way i'll be connecting my personal facebook to it... - SOLVED
tl;dr, there are so many amazing artists over there, but beaurocracy of that place preventing to join new users, and overall there are more reasons (including shitty webdesign, yes!) to make me actually hate it....
(or maybe they somehow felt that i'm one of oldies who grew up with deviantart? haha)
I grew up with deviantart as well but recently moved to Artstation full time. The lack of any content control at all is what moved me away from deviantart. I get so much spam through messages and comments about "sexy singles waiting to meet you" that I've grown to look at deviantart as the poor man's salad.
Yes you can sell prints on Artstation. I've seen other artists selling sets of images and are composed of full nudity. Usually these are artists that have a patreon account and sell their monthly contribution sets on artstation as well. I don't know how well something like prints/renders would sell over there but I do know a handful of artists that have very good sales. I think the Artstation marketplace is looked at more like an artist support channel of content rather than products for non-artists. Their rules on nudity are pretty laid back but no porn-like images. Meaning no close-ups of the goods or portrayed in a way that sells them in a non-classy way. Another reason I stay away from deviantart as it has loads of this stuff that would not be considered artistic in any form or fashion. However, on Artstation, what is contained in a file for the end user, but not displayed on the store page, could be under a different set of rules.
Well, i'm still on deviantart mostly for dedicated groups and some artists never left it and continue for 15+ years. Also friends made over years. So i rarely go outside of my watchlist or groups or specific searches.. but yeah, not in a good shape overall that made it loose credibility in eyes of community. And that problematic redesign looses functional and scaring away users as well...
Looks like ArtStation filled the gap after CGHUB disappeared, hm. But also being a bit "prestigous", like Dribble or Behance for designers/2d artists.
EDIT:
I managed to get things fixed through support of AS, so i'm sorry of being on emotions about problem that appeared during setting up an account. However, someone else may encounter similar problem - in that case, would suggest contacting their support, yeah.
Well also Artstaion isn't a replacement for DeviantArt either. It's more professional and geared towards building portfolios and establishing your presence as a professional artist rather than just uploading casual artwork or anything art related. I do really like though how you upload artwork on artstation, how many things are intergrated into your submission, and you can show off many images grouped together (different angles, work-in-progress, etc) into one submission. I'm surprised no website has tried to truly compete with DevianArt and maybe that's the problem. DeviantArt has no competition so it's standards get lowered all the time. A place like that could use so many more features, more social interactions, and connections. It's out dated for sure though. I hope one day there will be a solid replacement for DeviantArt. I feel like Artstation is slowly headed that way in becoming more casual and user friendly but it does leave something to be desired with the lack of groups and limited social interaction.
Which would follow early DA's spirit of "unofficial", "punk", "underground", hopefully.
Y'know, unlike artstation, which is all about "getting a job, see my real name and perfect selection of best works" etc.
:)
...yeah had my issues about DA for similar reasons (hated seeing my girls in fave collections of BDSM, vore, and other explicit works as well a getting comments about putting my characters in such scenes [I immediately hide such comments and if someone persists, they get blocked]). Now that they've changed to the "Eclipse" format, it is even worse as it's more difficult to navigate, the old "easy to use" browse page with categories is gone, and the search engine is really lacking (even common terms can kick back a "nothing found" message, and don't use more than two words in a single search attempt). For now I still have a gallery there as I haven't found any alternative that seems suitable.
When I looked into ArtStation I immediately got the feeling that my work would not fit in well there. Most of the 3D work I saw there looked to be created from scratch and I am way no where near that level of modelling.
I think that, for now, DA is the best way to get exposure. Even in the middle of its lowest point (thanks to poor development decisions) I get about 15 new watchers a day and am seeing 1.1k views per day at a very steady rate.
I know the point of this thread was about selling prints on Artstation, but this is the point. I think using a common "entry point" where you post everything and build a fan base is the best option, and then you can send them to wherever you want them to purchase prints, comics, content...
if you build up a large amount of interest somewhere with a low bar for entry (DA), then I think that you'll quickly see if you'll be able to sell prints and can determine if the pro account is for you.
After spending this week's sleepless nights in browsing hundreds or even thousands pictures on ArtStation, i still get the same impression from website.
It's both "amazing" and "not really" at same time.
Some moments that puzzle me:
- extreme dichotomy between "popular" and "not popular" works and artists. I'm not joking, i often see either profiles with, like, 12000 followers or profiles with under 100 subs at best (it is especially weird or unfair to see when not popular one has very quality/great works). You may say "like this is everywhere" but for me on AS it's much more contrasting, imho.
- it feels like people there are greedy to give works thumb ups / likes: work that would have 400+ favs on DeviantArt, only has like 7-20 on ArtStation (also weird when you browse high-popular profile with douzen of thousands followers, and while newest / freshest works have... well... 500 or 600 thumb ups - which is huge by ArtStation merits, but seems laughable considering followers number - older works by author stay with very few likes... i mean, i can't believe that people who sincerely like artist, would not see earlier works and react to them; or do you think most people on ArtStation browse feed and not actual artist's profiles?
- in 90% cases looks like people don't communicate there at all! I mean, commenting on works. Again, on super popular profiles you can see up to 50 comments (which is wow for artstation merits, lol), but on almost every work on almost every artist besides few, you most likely don't see more than 1-2 comments or no comments at all. And very rarely i see artist replying to those comments, as well. It feels so bad for me, i just cringe. Why is that happening? Is it because historically people treated ArtStation as "portfolio showcase", so discussions are not really welcomed? Ironically, in " How do I get more visibility for my work? - ArtStation Help Center " they recommend " Engaging with other artists by following them, liking their works and commenting." But i don't see it actually happening, especially compared to DeviantArt (which sometimes had, like, 500+ comments on some very popular work). Ouch, even on Instagram people talk more.
- lack of themed groups / communities, like @Herschel Hoffmeyer mentioned. In dA, those are very helpful for both exposure and finding like-minded people and coartists. On AS, it just simply not a thing.
I will not touch on other things like barebones site engine (infinite scroll... hello, browsing taking 6 gb of ram) or whatever. Or how ArtStation supports "professionals" or "learning to be a pro" more than "hobbyists" or "amateurs" (well, if you search something on AS, you can be sure that you have to scroll half an hour to the bottom of the bottom to finally see "i drew this doodle in a school class when teacher wasn't looking at me" content ). And i know there are things that AS does nice (job listing, challenges, podcast, tutorial promotions etc.)
But it really feels as hugest downgrade ever if you spent 15 years on deviantart and then come to artstation, in some areas.
P.S.
For fun, took a look of what AS can show me if i ask it to depict works that listed DAZ Studio and it told me "28407 results". I suppose 70% of those are not what we usually mean as daz renders, instead something like "Clothes i made in Zbrush or Marvelous Designer, used daz people as mannequin" or "My recently released props i modelled for sale in daz store", while the rest might be more usual to what people mean here as "posed and lighted in DS, storytelling through composition".
EDIT:
"The Message feature is specifically used for contacting artists about paid work-related opportunities. It is not for contacting users in general. Users who misuse this feature are banned." from rules of ArtStation. This one also sounds very disheartening to those of use, who are not "corporate speech company agents".
Regarding the disparity on popularity... it's probably relying on an algorythm like too many other places, and those algorythms can get incredibly unbalanced, and when they say "popular" they really mean "trending" (seriously, it should be false advertising to claim "trending" is "popular" in this context).
I've been idly toying with where to hang my shingle again, since I canned my dA account over the whole Eclipse debacle, which felt a LOT like someone mistook "keep 'em here longer via interface choices" for "engagement".
I also don't like infinite scroll, and not because of the RAM eating issues, but mostly because I really don't like that it makes it harder to make a decision of how far you want to scroll or that you've viewed enough. I always turn it off so I can go, "OK, Lynn, you've done 40 pages of these, probably time to move on." And I don't tend to have any staying power on sites that don't let you turn it off.
Or "browse first 20 pages today, return for 20 others tomorrow".
Look at FineArtAmerica.com if you're considering selling prints.
I was always given the impression that ArtStation is more for industry people...like professional portfolios and resume stuff, etc. I've also read that folks "just postin' stuff" can get ostracized and run about pretty harshly by those "professional portfolio" peeps. That's made me stay away.
I've been on DeviantArt for 15 years or so and I must be one of the only people who actually likes the Eclipse changes, haha. I hated the old format because it was so...old. And clunky. Now it feels much more like an organic sort of gallery.
I definitely get the most traffic on DeviantArt...but it takes time to build up momentum. And yeah, a lot of traffic is from 3D porn people...even if that's not what I do. At all. It bothers me, but, it's traffic...and the more traffic you get, the more your stuff gets out there to people you do want to attract.
I was on Tumblr and got traffic there, but 100% of it was from fandom community. So if you're into doing fanart, definitely post on Tumblr as well...though also keep in mind that I've never been able to stay in any one fandom for long because they're all toxic as all hell.
Also:
Reading this ArtStation - Georgian Avasilcutei - Let's talk a bit about what you post on Artstation- both post and comments - reminds me again of the worst of "elite CG elitists" kind of people.
Unsurprisingly, later ( ArtStation - Georgian Avasilcutei - This ) same persons keep narrative of "don't you dare calling daz-related creations as 3d" while also ignoring the work of scene compostion / lighting / materials etc.
Old format had much more FUNCTIONality. Which is, i'm sad to say, main problem of "modern internet". Everything is dumbed down so much that it removes very needed functional in the process of "modernizing".
I can understand where they are coming from but also think there should be a catagory for scene composition, kitbashing whatever using premade assets, this is very common with other apps too using Unreal assets for example, Turbosquid, etc not flipped but repurposed into a complete creative scene.
I do agree just posing a DAZ figure in some premade skimpwear is akin to the 3 brushes on a cube comparison.
If ArtStation differentiates itself as being for the highlly-skilled (and judging from that post from Georgian, "elitist") digital artists, that's great - we should have sites that cater to different needs/talents/etc.
With that in mind, I stick to DA and my own personal site for posting since we are lacking other options right now.
@Wonderland You can sell in any site,
the key is EXPOSURE, a thing that many people loves to avoid and only post in a bubble like...
Ok anyway, ah...look!, I've had commissions from...Twitter. these chats are from December but is only one of many messages I get in a weekly basis.
usually are noob works that I can do in minutes because are related to some scenes previously made in Daz.
The most incredible, my twitter have so few followers and rarely posts 3D renders and is not linked on Youtube, my twitter is more posts about my love for Sakura Miyawaki and Kpop group IZ*ONE.
Artstation: I've seen the site, for me?, My brain tells me that I don't have the Master Lever required to be there, meanwhile nobody can stop me to post some images there I prefer to be more skilled to present a true portfolio on AS, for now I'm pretty well with dA, and is irrelevant how many users or watchers visit your page, people will come if you art is worthy.
sometimes you need to create another kind of style rendering, I do nude Aikos for pleasure but I got heavy commissions from...Architecture in Dubai, and I'm not an Architect!!
Those are some pretty funny posts. If I was a company rep using ArtStation to look for artists, well, his posts clearly show that he has an exaggerated sense of self-importance and will likely spend his time complaining about other members of the team not being up to scratch.
I've had to manage people like that and learned to avoid them.
I agree, it's just those "special cases" when people disregard something just completely.
Also, debates about "we (e.g. 3d modelling works) don't want to share same category with you (e.g. poser/daz photography)" was also presented on DeviantArt (and now, Eclipse dA doesn't have categories at all, ouch).
I'm on ArtStation, you can post nudes, you just have to click the "mature" button when your posting. Also for non nude ones you have to be sure your thumbnail isn't something like a square full of cleavage. The reason for this is because ArtStation is an app, and they have been kicked out of the app store more than once. See the bottom of the page of this artical for actual samples of art they were removed from the app store for. So watch your thumbnails and mark mature and your good. I'm not sure it would be a good place to sell prints unless you have a following someplace already and can direct them there. If your doing skimpware and don't already have a following then selling prints on DA would probably be your best bet. They do like their sexy girls there. :) Some insight on which is best to build a following, This last year I increased my DA following by nearly 1000, My insta by about 500, and my Artstation by about 75. I put very little effort into any of them, but DA is the easiest because you can place your art into groups for exposure.
I've found a lot of pro industry people, especially in video games for some reason, basically consider their peers their primary audience. They are very technique-focused and prioritizing self-expression is seen as rather childish; you work hard and pay your dues first, and if you don't you're likely to pick up bad habits by following your unsophisticated preferences. Some of them don't even understand renders as an artistic medium, because renders are the thing you do to show off the model you sculpted. Go further on and some will balk at sculpting your own designs--that's not your job! 3D art is about accurately transcribing a concept artist's work!
I don't think this is an invalid way to approach art, depending on what kind of job you want and how much you enjoy the technical aspects. But they're never going to understand Daz--or the democratization of art in general--because tools like this prioritize self-expression and communication. People pick up a program like this because they have something to say or show others and just need a conduit. Since that's where I am, and ArtStation is culturally weighted toward the technique side, I don't post there. It would be like showing my handmade photocopied zine to someone who makes Vogue layouts for a living (I am way more interested in zines than in Vogue).
Both those links were from two years ago and not representative of the community as a whole especially now. Photobashing is becoming a widely popular and excepted way of creating concept art and top gaming artists are using it. It uses photos, painting, and 3d assets, and the artist may or may not create those assets themselves. The gaming industry also separates these things onto separate jobs. There is modeling, texturing, animation, lighting, concept art, cover art..... and lots more. The people modeling the 3d assets are not the ones doing the concept and cover art. Even on modeling forums now if someone bashes someone for using a paid model in part of a render a whole lot of others will come to their defense.
Oh, did you see this discussion (in comments) as well?:
Really weird topic, which follows very dividing viewpoint (totally opposite worldview between "job opportunists" and "creative/art folks"
That is exactly my view on Artstation and I don't view it negatively. I was in that world for a bit working for a couple of studios and doing game design, so I can totally undertstand it.While I miss having access to the high end tools and apps and still make a little extra doing digital imagery, I am fine with my personal use and goals with no desire to compete or showvase work like I used to.
I do feel that places like Artstation are good sites to check out for users that have never really done anything outside of DS and this small niche of the 3D world
"I've found a lot of pro industry people, especially in video games for some reason, basically consider their peers their primary audience."
Because they are. What I've found is that many (early?) artists do not know the difference between Art and Craft.
They also confuse Talent and Skill.
They also confuse a picture Album, photo Gallery and a Portfolio.
People who correct grammar are NEVER Liked. They call you the grammar police or worse.
People who are called "Industry Types, Snobs, Gatekeepers, etc...." What are THEY correcting people over?
Arts & Crafts. Arts & Crafts.
The ABOUT page for Artstation reads.......
Showcase your portfolio
ArtStation provides you with a simple, yet powerful way to show your portfolio and be seen by the right people in the industry.
It's super fast and sleek. Showcase high resolution images, videos, short clips, Marmoset and Sketchfab 3D scenes, 360 panos and more.
Add your work and production experience.
Blogs enable you to share your work in progress, articles and be seen.
Analytics lets you see who's checking out your portfolio. You can even sell your digital assets and prints.
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Even in the name of the site, itself. artSTATION as in WORKstation.
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There is almost no difference the visual end-results - between a great Daz Gallery piece and a great Artstation portfolio piece.
You can do the side by sides yourself.
The difference is the HOW each creator got to the end result.
The HOW matters if someone is interested in offering a commission or job to that creator.
It's the difference being able to USE assets and being able to generate assets.
It's the difference between working with someone who has a massive library of Stonemason sets so they can create any futuristic urban scene you could want (artist) or working with Stonemason (craftsman) directly.
If you are in an industry or have commercial interests, that difference is MASSIVE. If you are an artists, hobbyist or enthusiast, you might not even know a difference exists.
If you point out that difference, people get upset. Hence, the feeling you probably have right now- reading this. lol
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The other thing he said was -basically, don't share everything.
Artstation is NOT supposed to be your next online photo album.
Use Instagram instead. Stay on Deviant Art.
Re-read the Artstation about. https://www.artstation.com/about
If you just have to share everything you render, you should really create your own thread in the Art forum.
THAT'S where your work-in-progress should go, along with the story of where you are going and how it's going.
Not even the Daz Gallery. The word Gallery also has a definition and purpose.
The artistic eye is discerning. It discriminates and judges.
Ask any artist who has one.
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No artist needs to share everything they do or work on.....
- always show your best and people will believe that's your normal....
much better than showcasing average works all the time......
That's enough for now. I'm tired of being the Art Police..........
I'm happy* to say that from what i see, at least no everyone who uses ArtStation following mindset from that blog aka "this portfolio you made to be hired, so put you most current project showcase and delete old stuff", as i also see plenty of artists who use it, well, as online gallery like dA. Still, all those points about weird contrast of communication and activity between "exposed" and "not exposed" profiles, but whatever.
*i'm saying this as "audience", yes, i love watching amazing art and getting inspired. Well, it took me a few days and i already "liked" 1000+ works on artstation (and honestly it will be pain to browse through your favorites, not only because of endless scrolling instead of pagination, but also due how it's less comfortable system to categorize favs unlike da) and "followed" around 200 artists - some of whose, sadly, really looks like thrown a work or two into their page and disappeared forever (cause got a job, i guess)...
Then don't be, d'oh.
I can only agree about last part of your rant (about FILTERING what you showcase, aka not spamming/trashing with endess WIPs and drafts). Maybe hard question, though, is how determine for a person, who isn't already established, WHEN you step over line after which it's not "my studying attempts" but works good enough to be shown to people and in portfolio (TM). But that's maybe a discussion for another topic.
As for other points... Nah, nah, nah. If you are one of those "gatekeeping boredome corporatives" who insists that ArtStation is strictly "upload portfolio - get a job/commision" - then you would need to delete half of website already, i guess, including profiles of those legendary artists who don't give a thing about, cause they are already established years or decades ago, and so here they are, using AS as "place with better reputation than dA" to have their works posted on.
And yeah, if you wanna people who don't care that much about commercial success, cause they breathe by art/craft/creativity, basically https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_for_art's_sake - if you propose them to go away from AS - i think, right answer is "How about nope", lol.
And finally, once again about situation about DAZ and whatever. Once again, your main idea is CORRECT (aka, if it's recruiter who came to portfolio to evaluate what person's skills are). But that was not what initially was discussed... Problem was in arrogance and intolerance by those who only do everything from scratch to those who are not (and that includes even irl photography, mind you)... I mean, i totally feel how hard and tiring is learning to do amazing sculpting stuff in Zbrush etc. But, for god's sake, can they all don't act like doing quality stuff in Daz or whatever "takes no skill whatsoever" ?!
And yes, some people are acting such like that person from blog to whom people basically said about work with rendering / materials / shaders / lighting etc and he still continued acting like "ah, yeah, wut? nah, in daz u just load and click ". For reals, is it really that much difficult to not be so much proud of themselve to not disregard that "other fields" also demand experience, knowledge and hardwork?! That condescending attitude is not going well with "hey look i'm a pro" status...
It is. But i often feel unfair bias when people bash daz/poser users while not bash smth like this at same time...
So, if you somehow agree with that guy that one must not call daz stuff as "3d" because it's like "(stock) photo" and/or "(cover) illustration" , then whatever the earth we call it?