IG Cinematic Cameras (Answered!)
shaneseymourstudio
Posts: 383
I am interested in both of the cinematic camera sets that IG has. I am curious if anyone can expound on features of these cameras. From the description I can see they are designed to make them work like their real world counterparts. A few things I am curious about if anyone has any insight:
1) Besides preset aspect ratio and focal length what else is different with these cameras? For instance is DOF handled differently and if so how? I find in the default DAZ camera dof values are something I have to really tinker with in iRay preview to see if it is what I am wanting. Maybe these cameras operate where the values are more consistent? EDITING WITH MY OWN ANSWERS FOR OTHERS: DoF is handled in a way that makes sense to me when adjusting the focal distance. No more wasted time trial and error for me with dof!
2) Can you load in these cameras in similar fashion as the default DAZ camera where you have an option to place it according to the current viewport view directly from the preset/camera load? (This is a big deal for me. I forget the name of the set I purchased some time ago, not an IG set, but there was no way to bring the camera in based on where I had the viewport looking so I never use it). EDITING WITH MY OWN ANSWERS FOR OTHERS: Future me remembered that the real issue with the other set, not an IG set, was more to do with the controls of the cameras being different to the ones I am used to with the default camera in DAZ. IG cameras movement and control operate as I am used to however they do not offer an option to apply current viewport (I am happy to change my workflow with this for all the other improvements!)
3) Is there any issue with using the cameras from these sets with Canvases and tonemapping turned off? (Maybe unexpected behaviour or something wonky...may not be something anyone has tried or noticed). EDITING WITH MY OWN ANSWERS FOR OTHERS: Works without issue with tonemapping turned off and using cameras!
4) Any issue with the cameras not being noticed by batch rendering scripts (there are a few different batch render scripts of course but basically need to know if these cameras are viewed or seen the same as DAZ cameras internally so that scripts that look for cameras to render from will pick them up...another huge part of my workflow). EDITING WITH MY OWN ANSWERS FOR OTHERS: The batch script I use picks up every camera from IG sets without issue!
Thanks for any feedback.
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Comments
I have the first set and the 35mm cameras and I love them, but as far as I can tell there's no way to place them according to the viewport view from preset, or at least the option isn't offered on loading. That's not quite a dealbreaker for me but it does make them less useful if I have an exact angle I want.
The DOF area of effect is pre-set based on the type of camera you choose and each loading icon will give you an idea of how your character should be framed. The dials under camera settings are customized, with just one dial to control the position of the DOF area.
I use Canvases a lot and haven't had any issues with these.
The main reason I like these is that I have no idea how to make real cameras do camera things, and because I don't even have a good idea of what the possibilities are they're difficult to tackle on my own.
Thanks so much for sharing this info! Based on this I will likely purchase these and the 35mm and try to get used to angling each camera after loading them in instead of wandering off getting the perfect angle having forgotten to load in the camera first. Hopefully these will work with the batch script I use.
Edit: I forgot to ask/mention...the other set I have, do not recall the name, besides not being able to load in where viewport was it also had very different controls for moving/positioning the camera than the default camera. Do you notice any difference in controls for these camera sets compared to the default camera?
I've been interested in these but by the description I'm not quite sure of the advantage. Setting up a camera with a DOF, 35mm, and 16:9 render is pretty easy.
Is that all they do?
I'm glad it's helpful! :D I've been able to move them around exactly like a regular camera.
My understanding is that if you can replicate the example shots in the promos easily on your own, there probably isn't much more they do. It's tough because I don't have enough camera experience to identify more advanced uses, if there are any. When I picked up the 35mm set, my impression from the description was that they're intended for beginner-to-intermediate users, and probably especially those of us who have trouble learning without seeing an example of what something is supposed to look like.
I grabbed the 2 cinematic sets and the 35mm set so when I get home in a couple of hours I will test and report back if I notice any other features and for anyone else who may be curious if it works with batch rendering.
Look forward to your report @shaneseymourstudio . I'm also curious as to the use of these. I learned most of what little I know about lighting from trying to replicate purchased sets. I'm curious to try the same with these and the 35MM set. Also hopeful someone with real life camera knowledge could offer their perspective.
I have been doing traditional photography with 35mm film and DSLR for decades now. I feel pretty comfortable with cameras in DAZ Studio so was curious about these sets, but am interested in finding out more. Thanks for starting this thread and if I end up getting them I will make sure to comment on whether they are suited only for beginners, or everyone. I use a couple of pretty standard setups that I created so don't really need a lot of new, different camera setups. I have finally mastered DoF in DAZ Studio so am not sure what I would get out of these sets, but it certainly caught my eye!
Ok I can say I am very happy with these products. Now whether or not you need all the various sets is tough to say right now since I have not had enough time to try out alot of the cameras. For what I need in a camera this works out great, with exception of adding it to current viewport in place (a small inconvenience I am happy to adapt to). I added a camera from each set, which oddly is under the "Light Presets" from content library instead of the Camera presets. I was able to batch render each without any issue. The controls are superb imo for dof. It is much easier for me to get what I am after very quickly. For me this is a keeper and something I will use going forward in all my scenes. Here is a screenshot of the controls from the Camera focal/dof section:
And when using the cameras they will not change aspect ratio unless you manually turn off "Use Local Dimensions":
I have done photography for 7 years and used DAZ for 2 years. I can say that before using these cameras I had issues getting dof that I wanted out of the default camera. Often with crazy dof numbers like 934 to get the wire boxes to cover the area I wanted and still checking iRay preview while tweaking or after tweaking and side view from perspective to check the boxes were covering the areas I need. With this I point the camera then jump to the side in perspective view and type in dof and can freely move the focal distance slider without worrying about the area of focus from dof value changing in the viewport. Maybe I was just really doing something wrong with default camera but this is just plain easier for me to use and benefits me greatly in my workflow.
how di you chanhe aspect ratio when local dimensions are off?
Under the render settings where you put in the resolution (3840×2160 example) you can then choose 16:9 for instance and the camera will reflect that value. EDIT: If you leave local dimensions "On", which is how IG cameras load in as default, then it will have the aspect ratios he has tuned which are excellent but my scenes require 16:9 3840x2160 so that they conform nicely when resized to 1920x1080 for my work.
I'm happy to hear they worked out for you! :D
For folks who aren't sure what the immediate benefit is out of the box, the only difference between the two images below is the camera they were rendered with. The first is the default DS camera, and the second is a camera from this set. They're rendered pretty much as they load; the only thing I did was make sure they were both set to exactly the same position.
Hm. Thank you for the example. I still don't really understand. Can't I just adjust the Frame Width slider on the camera to achieve the same thing?
Yep, and if you already know how to get the results you want from the camera I'm not sure how useful they are. I actually ended up owning several tools that could be summarized as "I have no idea what 'correct' use of this looks like; please show me" because that's how I learn, and this is one of them.
You can achieve the same framing dialing this in. What the main benefit for me is that it seems to lock/combine focal length and frame width in a way that lets dof act as I would expect so that I can punch in 1.4 f/stop and set the focal distance without the wireframe indicators going crazy as I move the focal distance. From what I can gather in the limited time I have tried them they are otherwise a ton of preset aspect/framing setups.
That's the thing I didn't know how to answer--namely, what benefit a more advanced user would get from them. The framing setups really are useful to me as they load, but most of the confusion over these seems to be whether that's all they are. I've seen a couple of threads about these and nobody was really sure what "acts like a real camera" meant.
i really like the subtle DoF in the second one there, the one you used the cinematic camera with. I use dof a lot, but truthfully, yours looks a lot better than what I achieve on my own. I too, have been curious about these cameras.
My guess is that IG figured out all the combinations for his cameras to make them act as their real world counterparts. DAZ cameras use labels for paramaters that a photographer/cinematographer would recognize but getting them to act like cameras they work with in the real world is something altogether different. These products offer something much more in line with what my mind already understands. I started working back in some of my most recent scenes for latest project and adding a camera in place of the ones I setup and rendering and every one from the new camera is just so much better. So, while I have manually set all the paramaters in DAZ over the last 2 years and learned a few things I now realize I am still way off replicating the look these cameras give right out the gate.
Thanks, you guys, for having this discussion. I could never understand what was going on with the Daz cameras and the f-stop settings. I did not consider that the camera settings were just poorly implemented/broken. I just thought I was blur. I bought one of these sets upon release (the one plasma_ring linked), and I was hoping it would improve my Daz life, but I hadn't experimented with them enough to see. Thanks, @InaneGlory.
Also, Thank you for those who added to this discussion. I'm going to give both the sets a buy. In my case it will be worth it even if it's just using them to learn what the "right" way to set up cameras are and the different permutations.
I hope this thread stays active to see what experiments come from this, and perhaps some experineced photosgrapher/Daz users can offer their input.
Interesting. I have these in my cart. Perhaps I'll give them a buy to try them out. If they aren't useful for me, they can always be returned.
Thanks all!