Does 4.12.1.16 allow multiple instances of Studio?

outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,203
edited May 2020 in The Commons

I was looking over the update notes for 4.12.1.16 beta and saw this:

Application Launch

  • Only a single instance of the application, per release channel, is now allowed to run at a time
    • Attempts to load registered file types via double-click or "open with" commands (once promoted to General Release) will forward to a running instance (if any) instead of allowing concurrent instances that compete for resources and cause conflicts

Am I seeing this correctly that Studio will no longer allow users to run more than one instance of Studio? Because if that is the case, that is a serious problem for me, and probably a lot of other users. I like to have 2 instances open, I can be rendering in one and using the second to something else. If I can't do this anymore after updating, YIKES. I would rather not be locked completely out of Daz during long renders. I really hope I am wrong about this. But if this is the case, it needs to be changed ASAP because you are going to severely screw up a lot of user's workflow, possibly PAs too. For some people, time is far too valiable to waste running renders, and this might make rethink how I continue to use Daz in the future. This is really serious.

*UPDATE*

As there is some confusion about this, the latest beta has been updated to allow multiple instances. But with a catch. You cannot run multiple instances without first executing a script that enables them. Its a bit odd, and this is a temporary solution. Once you have run the script, you should not have to run the script again. The details are in this post.

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5112696/#Comment_5112696

Its not the most elegant solution, and frankly I wish they could have just waited until they got it all sorted out before unleashing this to the public.

But since they did, they should have done what I have been asking for years: allow people to install the previous version of Daz Studio!

If Daz must insist on placing experimental features in the beta, which is logical considering it is beta...then the obvious thing is to allow people to install the previous beta in case something gets broken. It's just common sense to me. That would have avoided this entire thread of highly agitated users complaining about this issue. It would avoid a LOT of issues. Give us customers this option for crying out loud. I fail to understand why this is such a difficult thing to do.

Mod edit to thread title to make it clear that there is a question, not a statement.

Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
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Comments

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    I was looking over the update notes for 4.12.1.16 beta and saw this:

    Application Launch

    • Only a single instance of the application, per release channel, is now allowed to run at a time
      • Attempts to load registered file types via double-click or "open with" commands (once promoted to General Release) will forward to a running instance (if any) instead of allowing concurrent instances that compete for resources and cause conflicts

    Am I seeing this correctly that Studio will no longer allow users to run more than one instance of Studio? Because if that is the case, that is a serious problem for me, and probably a lot of other users. I like to have 2 instances open, I can be rendering in one and using the second to something else. If I can't do this anymore after updating, YIKES. I would rather not be locked completely out of Daz during long renders. I really hope I am wrong about this. But if this is the case, it needs to be changed ASAP because you are going to severely screw up a lot of user's workflow, possibly PAs too. For some people, time is far too valiable to waste running renders, and this might make rethink how I continue to use Daz in the future. This is really serious.

    Not much consolation, but it does say "per release channel," which means you can still have both a beta and a release version open at the same time. Because it also mentions concurrently running instances "compete for resources and cause conflicts," I expect this is the result of problems reported to Tech Support with crash log information.

  • gerstergerster Posts: 1,008

    yeah, this is a horrible change.

    there should be an option added to allow multiple instances again 

    best thing you can do, write a ticket and complain about that change

    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,203
    edited October 2019
    L'Adair said:

    I was looking over the update notes for 4.12.1.16 beta and saw this:

    Application Launch

    • Only a single instance of the application, per release channel, is now allowed to run at a time
      • Attempts to load registered file types via double-click or "open with" commands (once promoted to General Release) will forward to a running instance (if any) instead of allowing concurrent instances that compete for resources and cause conflicts

    Am I seeing this correctly that Studio will no longer allow users to run more than one instance of Studio? Because if that is the case, that is a serious problem for me, and probably a lot of other users. I like to have 2 instances open, I can be rendering in one and using the second to something else. If I can't do this anymore after updating, YIKES. I would rather not be locked completely out of Daz during long renders. I really hope I am wrong about this. But if this is the case, it needs to be changed ASAP because you are going to severely screw up a lot of user's workflow, possibly PAs too. For some people, time is far too valiable to waste running renders, and this might make rethink how I continue to use Daz in the future. This is really serious.

    Not much consolation, but it does say "per release channel," which means you can still have both a beta and a release version open at the same time. Because it also mentions concurrently running instances "compete for resources and cause conflicts," I expect this is the result of problems reported to Tech Support with crash log information.

    I never had a problem running multiple instances. Obviously running multiple instances can strain a PC if not specced well. If I had a crash, then I knew it was my own fault for probably using up my RAM, which only happened once. But this solution to the "problem" senseless. It is way too extreme. If people are having issues running multiple instances, then maybe those particular people shouldn't be running multiple instances then. It is absolutely ridiculous to penalize everybody because of a few people who shouldn't be doing it. This would be like if Daz got rid of Iray because a number of users lack compliant GPUs, I am sure people put in tickets for that all the time too.

    And no, using other versions is not acceptable. This means users must archive their copies of Daz Studio to avoid this, since, as you know, Daz kindly refuses to offer any previous versions of Studio up for download. So anybody who clicks update without archiving their old version is basically screwed. This also means using old and outdated versions of Daz just to run another instance. Keep in mind that Daz went almost 2 years with 4.10, and only beta users could render a scene with a RTX GPU when they first launched. Something like that would exclude using the beta and general release for multiple instances.

    Guess I wont be updating Daz Studio anytime soon until they fix this new problem they have created.

    And I am done with the PC+ sale. I decided I should not have multiple instances of my browser tabs open to Daz. I don't to cause any conflicts there...

     

    gerster said:

    yeah, this is a horrible change.

    there should be an option added to allow multiple instances again 

    best thing you can do, write a ticket and complain about that change

    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

    I will do that, but I want to spread awareness of this first, that's really important. Most people do not bother looking at patch notes, and some don't even use the beta. So they have no idea what is in store for them when the general release gets this "feature". This needs to be stopped now so they can fix it before releasing the general release.

    Post edited by outrider42 on
  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 1,848
    edited October 2019

    Because if that is the case, that is a serious problem for me, and probably a lot of other users.

    I also have to add myself to that list. I've got several reasons I need to start a second or sometimes even third instance of Studio.

    I usually avoid starting it while I've got a render running (as on my system, that would often cause it to drop to CPU), but I frequently need to do it while setting up a scene. If I need to do rigging of any modelling work I'm doing, update one of my saved character presets, etc, etc, I want to be able to do that in a second window so I haven't got to worry about anything other than that specific work. I suppose it can be argued that I could technically close the primary session for that (but at the cost of having to take several minutes reloading my main scene each time).

    Also, on my low VRAM card, I frequently have to reload sessions to stop the renders dropping to CPU (as I know of no other way to reset Iray after it starts using the CPU); having to wait to open a second instance of Daz until after the session save is done and the instance closed will just make an already tedious process slower.

    However, for one example where simply taking the tedious process of saving, loading and reloading is NOT possible, I've occasionally had problems with things saving, and a second instance lets me check the save file is good without having to close the original session (thus allowing me to try to resolve the error before I lose my work).

    I'm not happy with this as an "update", not at all. I've not had any bugs I can associate with running multiple instances. Warning users that a second instance may cause issues is far FAR preferable to removing the option entirely.

    Post edited by Matt_Castle on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 38,486

    ...this is not good as I need to run one instance for rendering and another for working on new subsets and scenes at the same time.  This is why I have set up a dual PC system. If this is the new case then we need a batch/network render system without having to pay a fortune for the standalone version of Iray and Iray server.

    Guess i'll be staying with the Beta then. 

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,913
    edited October 2019

    I am another one that thinks this is an awful change. Having the ability to have more than one session is useful for all sorts of reasons. I like to hear the justification for switching it off, and it be better very good reason indeed.

    Post edited by Havos on
  • wizwiz Posts: 1,100

    You know, it never even dawned on me to open multiple instances. I think the last time I tried that was around 5 years ago, and ended up with a trashed database for my trouble.

    Most of you are complaining because you used a second instance for rendering. It sounds like the proper solution would be for DAZ to give studio a decent background render queue. Hopefully, they'd make it aware of the activity level in the editing session, so that editing never felt sluggish.

    I wonder how well VirtualBox workes with GPU programs. It seems to be pretty smart about multi-core systems and heavily multithreaded apps. BRB.

     

  • wizwiz Posts: 1,100

    Back. Nope, you can commit a GPU to a virtual machine, so you'd need more than one GPU if you still wanted accelerated previews.

    So, it's really up to DAZ to either stabilize studio for multiple instances or provide a background render queueing mechanism.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,323
    kyoto kid said:

    ...this is not good as I need to run one instance for rendering and another for working on new subsets and scenes at the same time.  This is why I have set up a dual PC system. If this is the new case then we need a batch/network render system without having to pay a fortune for the standalone version of Iray and Iray server.

    Guess i'll be staying with the Beta then. 

    Sure it's not just on the same PC you can't run more than one instance?

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 33,697
    edited October 2019
    Taoz said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...this is not good as I need to run one instance for rendering and another for working on new subsets and scenes at the same time.  This is why I have set up a dual PC system. If this is the new case then we need a batch/network render system without having to pay a fortune for the standalone version of Iray and Iray server.

    Guess i'll be staying with the Beta then. 

    Sure it's not just on the same PC you can't run more than one instance?

    I would have assumed only on the one computer

    you could run as many computers with DS as you like I would imagine

    subject to allowed installs

    think there was a limit

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,362

    This is terrible and should be reverted ASAP. 

    I've sent in a feature request, and everyone here should, as well!

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,323
    Taoz said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...this is not good as I need to run one instance for rendering and another for working on new subsets and scenes at the same time.  This is why I have set up a dual PC system. If this is the new case then we need a batch/network render system without having to pay a fortune for the standalone version of Iray and Iray server.

    Guess i'll be staying with the Beta then. 

    Sure it's not just on the same PC you can't run more than one instance?

    I would have assumed only on the one computer

    you could run as many computers with DS as you like I would imagine

    subject to allowed installs

    think there was a limit

    Ok, but you said you had a dual computer setup so I thought you believed you could only run it on one computer on the network at a time (Poser works that way). 

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 16,720

    Since you can still run a beta & release candidate concurrently I don't see the big deal if the scene DUF files remain compatible between the two versions of DS you are running.

  • gerstergerster Posts: 1,008
    edited October 2019

    Since you can still run a beta & release candidate concurrently I don't see the big deal if the scene DUF files remain compatible between the two versions of DS you are running.

    If you need more than two instances is just one reason why the public demo is not a good work around 

    Post edited by gerster on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 83,698
    edited October 2019
    L'Adair said:

    I was looking over the update notes for 4.12.1.16 beta and saw this:

    Application Launch

    • Only a single instance of the application, per release channel, is now allowed to run at a time
      • Attempts to load registered file types via double-click or "open with" commands (once promoted to General Release) will forward to a running instance (if any) instead of allowing concurrent instances that compete for resources and cause conflicts

    Am I seeing this correctly that Studio will no longer allow users to run more than one instance of Studio? Because if that is the case, that is a serious problem for me, and probably a lot of other users. I like to have 2 instances open, I can be rendering in one and using the second to something else. If I can't do this anymore after updating, YIKES. I would rather not be locked completely out of Daz during long renders. I really hope I am wrong about this. But if this is the case, it needs to be changed ASAP because you are going to severely screw up a lot of user's workflow, possibly PAs too. For some people, time is far too valiable to waste running renders, and this might make rethink how I continue to use Daz in the future. This is really serious.

    Not much consolation, but it does say "per release channel," which means you can still have both a beta and a release version open at the same time. Because it also mentions concurrently running instances "compete for resources and cause conflicts," I expect this is the result of problems reported to Tech Support with crash log information.

    I never had a problem running multiple instances. Obviously running multiple instances can strain a PC if not specced well. If I had a crash, then I knew it was my own fault for probably using up my RAM, which only happened once. But this solution to the "problem" senseless. It is way too extreme. If people are having issues running multiple instances, then maybe those particular people shouldn't be running multiple instances then. It is absolutely ridiculous to penalize everybody because of a few people who shouldn't be doing it. This would be like if Daz got rid of Iray because a number of users lack compliant GPUs, I am sure people put in tickets for that all the time too.

    I'm suer Daz management will be monitoring the reaction, but bear in mind that the main thing they have access to right now is the pattern of support tickets so if a lot of people are having issues and complaining aboutt hem, whether or not they should ahve known better, that is going to carry weight. Make a calm, reasoned case for continuing to allow multiple instances (or some other way of addressing your needs) and you may be able to persuade them of the merits of the case. My first thought would be to have DS pop up a "Danger, Will Robinson!" alert on trying to launch a second instance but without knowing the background to the decision I don't know if that would address all needs, nor do I know what range of options was considered.

    And no, using other versions is not acceptable. This means users must archive their copies of Daz Studio to avoid this, since, as you know, Daz kindly refuses to offer any previous versions of Studio up for download. So anybody who clicks update without archiving their old version is basically screwed. This also means using old and outdated versions of Daz just to run another instance. Keep in mind that Daz went almost 2 years with 4.10, and only beta users could render a scene with a RTX GPU when they first launched. Something like that would exclude using the beta and general release for multiple instances.

    Why is the multi-channel (beta and geenral release) solution not acceptable to you? That would give you two versions open at nce, which is what you say you use.

    Guess I wont be updating Daz Studio anytime soon until they fix this new problem they have created.

    And I am done with the PC+ sale. I decided I should not have multiple instances of my browser tabs open to Daz. I don't to cause any conflicts there...

     

    gerster said:

    yeah, this is a horrible change.

    there should be an option added to allow multiple instances again 

    best thing you can do, write a ticket and complain about that change

    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

    I will do that, but I want to spread awareness of this first, that's really important. Most people do not bother looking at patch notes, and some don't even use the beta. So they have no idea what is in store for them when the general release gets this "feature". This needs to be stopped now so they can fix it before releasing the general release.

     

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • I also think it's a bad idea to remove the possibility to have multiple instances, even if not documented.

    As Richard says above I have submitted a ticket to request the come back of this feature.

    Right now, I stay on 4.11 cause I cannot work with 1 instance only!

  • I know this sounds silly but what is exactly an instance? Is it like duplicating an object like a prop? Is it cloning? Maybe I've been using them and had no clue I was.

  • fastbike1fastbike1 Posts: 4,068

     Having multiple copies of Studio running at the same time.

    I know this sounds silly but what is exactly an instance? Is it like duplicating an object like a prop? Is it cloning? Maybe I've been using them and had no clue I was.

     

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 5,949

    I know this sounds silly but what is exactly an instance? Is it like duplicating an object like a prop? Is it cloning? Maybe I've been using them and had no clue I was.

    In this case, they're talking about running multiple sessions Daz Studio on the same machine.  

    You may have been using instances without being aware of it, since some pre-made sets use instances to reduce loading times, etc.   Instances are copies of objects or figures.  You can move and scale the copies, but otherwise they share all the attributes, poses, textures, etc. of the original.

  • I know this sounds silly but what is exactly an instance? Is it like duplicating an object like a prop? Is it cloning? Maybe I've been using them and had no clue I was.

    In this case it's having two DSes (of the same version) running at once.

  • PadonePadone Posts: 2,717

    what is exactly an instance?

    It means you can run many daz studios together. As for me the limit for one instance is not a problem, my pc can barely handle it and I wouldn't even dare to launch a second instance with another scene while rendering with the first instance. But I understand that it may be useful to some people.

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,203
    I already explained why the multi channel approach is not acceptable. That's because the beta and general release can be miles apart in feature set. Look at how long 4.10 hung around as the general release, while the beta added features and stability improvements. Even right now, the beta offers a variety of improvements that people using the general do have access to. If this instance rule had been in effect back then, RTX users would not have had the option at all, because only the beta worked with those GPUs. And that lasted for months. I'm not talking about them using the RT cores to boost speed, though again the beta enjoyed that feature for months before the general release. Dforce is also constantly updated in the beta, and the general release dforce can lag very far behind. The dforce in 4.10 was extremely buggy and constantly exploded or even crashed Daz. This is why just saying users could open an instance of the beta and general release is not good enough.

    So why should I punish myself with an inferior work around just because some users can't handle multiple instances? It makes no sense to me. Are you saying this really that big of an issue that support decided to kill the option off entirely?

    And how can I be sure that using the beta and general release for instances will continue to work in the future??? Like if the same people complain about instances now also try doing that, and complain some again, perhaps Daz figures out a way to stop that as well.

    So yeah, I rather think that is where this is going. That eventually we wont be able to run more than one instance of Daz even when trying to do multiple versions. And all because some people have problems. Removing a feature from everybody just because of a few is a terrible.

    I think other people have done a decent job of explaining the issue here as well. Its all about workflow. Too many people use multiple instances as a part of their everyday workflow. And Daz just killed that. Now users are going to have to take a lot longer when working. And for those people where time equals money, that is a very bad situation. I can imagine this could even effect some PAs who use instances while developing their products. This move effectively harms their ability to make money by slowing them down.

    The TLDR version:

    Having multiple instances equals more money.

    Having multiple instances equals better use of time.
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 33,697
    Taoz said:
    Taoz said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...this is not good as I need to run one instance for rendering and another for working on new subsets and scenes at the same time.  This is why I have set up a dual PC system. If this is the new case then we need a batch/network render system without having to pay a fortune for the standalone version of Iray and Iray server.

    Guess i'll be staying with the Beta then. 

    Sure it's not just on the same PC you can't run more than one instance?

    I would have assumed only on the one computer

    you could run as many computers with DS as you like I would imagine

    subject to allowed installs

    think there was a limit

    Ok, but you said you had a dual computer setup so I thought you believed you could only run it on one computer on the network at a time (Poser works that way). 

    No I can run 4 DAZ studios, a beta and release build on each computer if I wanted to

    I just was unsure if there was a licensing limit I do know its more than 2, some softwares have one of 4 computers for example, there well may not be one but I don't own enough computers to ever find out!

    Poser you cannot at once.

    I have looked into other softwares, iClone I get up to 4 installs, Hitfilm Express I had to remove from one computer even though it was an earlier version they knew and blocked it.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,626

    I've created a ticket.

    This sounds like a similar to a previous issue that was Studio 4.9; I ignored that one.

    I'll be voting with my wallet, like I did with the DRM issue.

  • I already explained why the multi channel approach is not acceptable. That's because the beta and general release can be miles apart in feature set. Look at how long 4.10 hung around as the general release, while the beta added features and stability improvements. Even right now, the beta offers a variety of improvements that people using the general do have access to. If this instance rule had been in effect back then, RTX users would not have had the option at all, because only the beta worked with those GPUs. And that lasted for months. I'm not talking about them using the RT cores to boost speed, though again the beta enjoyed that feature for months before the general release. Dforce is also constantly updated in the beta, and the general release dforce can lag very far behind. The dforce in 4.10 was extremely buggy and constantly exploded or even crashed Daz. This is why just saying users could open an instance of the beta and general release is not good enough.

     

    So why should I punish myself with an inferior work around just because some users can't handle multiple instances? It makes no sense to me. Are you saying this really that big of an issue that support decided to kill the option off entirely?

     

    And how can I be sure that using the beta and general release for instances will continue to work in the future??? Like if the same people complain about instances now also try doing that, and complain some again, perhaps Daz figures out a way to stop that as well.

     

    So yeah, I rather think that is where this is going. That eventually we wont be able to run more than one instance of Daz even when trying to do multiple versions. And all because some people have problems. Removing a feature from everybody just because of a few is a terrible.

     

    I think other people have done a decent job of explaining the issue here as well. Its all about workflow. Too many people use multiple instances as a part of their everyday workflow. And Daz just killed that. Now users are going to have to take a lot longer when working. And for those people where time equals money, that is a very bad situation. I can imagine this could even effect some PAs who use instances while developing their products. This move effectively harms their ability to make money by slowing them down.

     

    The TLDR version:

     

    Having multiple instances equals more money.

     

    Having multiple instances equals better use of time.

    First, I have to point out that it is a suppostion that the restriction is because the ability to run mutliple instances was because of support calls (it sounds plausible, but I can think of other possible reasons). But there are issues with running multiple instances, for example that if two instances are running doing a File>New or File>Open in one will clear the Temp folder, potentially removing files that the other instance was using, and also there are potentially issues with thing like the shared settings files. Issues that might damage the installation or cause users to lose data obviously will carry more weight than those which are more a matter of work flow.

    I see no reason to think that rstrictions might be imposed on having two different channels running at once - they don't share settings, other than the CMS and that can already cope with mutliple access (DIM, DS, Carrara) or active files (each has its own temp folder, at least by default).

  • gerstergerster Posts: 1,008
    edited October 2019
    I already explained why the multi channel approach is not acceptable. That's because the beta and general release can be miles apart in feature set. Look at how long 4.10 hung around as the general release, while the beta added features and stability improvements. Even right now, the beta offers a variety of improvements that people using the general do have access to. If this instance rule had been in effect back then, RTX users would not have had the option at all, because only the beta worked with those GPUs. And that lasted for months. I'm not talking about them using the RT cores to boost speed, though again the beta enjoyed that feature for months before the general release. Dforce is also constantly updated in the beta, and the general release dforce can lag very far behind. The dforce in 4.10 was extremely buggy and constantly exploded or even crashed Daz. This is why just saying users could open an instance of the beta and general release is not good enough.

     

    So why should I punish myself with an inferior work around just because some users can't handle multiple instances? It makes no sense to me. Are you saying this really that big of an issue that support decided to kill the option off entirely?

     

    And how can I be sure that using the beta and general release for instances will continue to work in the future??? Like if the same people complain about instances now also try doing that, and complain some again, perhaps Daz figures out a way to stop that as well.

     

    So yeah, I rather think that is where this is going. That eventually we wont be able to run more than one instance of Daz even when trying to do multiple versions. And all because some people have problems. Removing a feature from everybody just because of a few is a terrible.

     

    I think other people have done a decent job of explaining the issue here as well. Its all about workflow. Too many people use multiple instances as a part of their everyday workflow. And Daz just killed that. Now users are going to have to take a lot longer when working. And for those people where time equals money, that is a very bad situation. I can imagine this could even effect some PAs who use instances while developing their products. This move effectively harms their ability to make money by slowing them down.

     

    The TLDR version:

     

    Having multiple instances equals more money.

     

    Having multiple instances equals better use of time.

    First, I have to point out that it is a suppostion that the restriction is because the ability to run mutliple instances was because of support calls (it sounds plausible, but I can think of other possible reasons). But there are issues with running multiple instances, for example that if two instances are running doing a File>New or File>Open in one will clear the Temp folder, potentially removing files that the other instance was using, and also there are potentially issues with thing like the shared settings files. Issues that might damage the installation or cause users to lose data obviously will carry more weight than those which are more a matter of work flow.

    I see no reason to think that rstrictions might be imposed on having two different channels running at once - they don't share settings, other than the CMS and that can already cope with mutliple access (DIM, DS, Carrara) or active files (each has its own temp folder, at least by default).

    Hey Richard,

    a lot of people (including me) did use multiple instances for a long time without any issues.
    I understand that there some edge cases which can cause trouble.

    The solution is very easy, make it default single instance and add the option to enable the old multi instance behavoir (with some warnings or hide as a flag in a config file).

    This single instance restirction slows down my workflow and I will not accept this.

    My options are

    1) Stay forever with the old version

    2) 'Hack' the DLL file with that silly restriction (eg using the old dll file)

    3) Vote with my wallet

    I don't think that making this optional will hurt anyone.

    Post edited by gerster on
  • BruganBrugan Posts: 360

    My opinion on the change...

    Booooo...

    (It's October,,. see what I did there? blush )

  • I already explained why the multi channel approach is not acceptable. That's because the beta and general release can be miles apart in feature set. Look at how long 4.10 hung around as the general release, while the beta added features and stability improvements. Even right now, the beta offers a variety of improvements that people using the general do have access to. If this instance rule had been in effect back then, RTX users would not have had the option at all, because only the beta worked with those GPUs. And that lasted for months. I'm not talking about them using the RT cores to boost speed, though again the beta enjoyed that feature for months before the general release. Dforce is also constantly updated in the beta, and the general release dforce can lag very far behind. The dforce in 4.10 was extremely buggy and constantly exploded or even crashed Daz. This is why just saying users could open an instance of the beta and general release is not good enough.

     

    So why should I punish myself with an inferior work around just because some users can't handle multiple instances? It makes no sense to me. Are you saying this really that big of an issue that support decided to kill the option off entirely?

     

    And how can I be sure that using the beta and general release for instances will continue to work in the future??? Like if the same people complain about instances now also try doing that, and complain some again, perhaps Daz figures out a way to stop that as well.

     

    So yeah, I rather think that is where this is going. That eventually we wont be able to run more than one instance of Daz even when trying to do multiple versions. And all because some people have problems. Removing a feature from everybody just because of a few is a terrible.

     

    I think other people have done a decent job of explaining the issue here as well. Its all about workflow. Too many people use multiple instances as a part of their everyday workflow. And Daz just killed that. Now users are going to have to take a lot longer when working. And for those people where time equals money, that is a very bad situation. I can imagine this could even effect some PAs who use instances while developing their products. This move effectively harms their ability to make money by slowing them down.

     

    The TLDR version:

     

    Having multiple instances equals more money.

     

    Having multiple instances equals better use of time.

    First, I have to point out that it is a suppostion that the restriction is because the ability to run mutliple instances was because of support calls (it sounds plausible, but I can think of other possible reasons). But there are issues with running multiple instances, for example that if two instances are running doing a File>New or File>Open in one will clear the Temp folder, potentially removing files that the other instance was using, and also there are potentially issues with thing like the shared settings files. Issues that might damage the installation or cause users to lose data obviously will carry more weight than those which are more a matter of work flow.

    I see no reason to think that rstrictions might be imposed on having two different channels running at once - they don't share settings, other than the CMS and that can already cope with mutliple access (DIM, DS, Carrara) or active files (each has its own temp folder, at least by default).

    I agree, Richard. It's likely that they saw two options to fix this and chose the one that was less work to accomplish.
  • gerster said:
    I already explained why the multi channel approach is not acceptable. That's because the beta and general release can be miles apart in feature set. Look at how long 4.10 hung around as the general release, while the beta added features and stability improvements. Even right now, the beta offers a variety of improvements that people using the general do have access to. If this instance rule had been in effect back then, RTX users would not have had the option at all, because only the beta worked with those GPUs. And that lasted for months. I'm not talking about them using the RT cores to boost speed, though again the beta enjoyed that feature for months before the general release. Dforce is also constantly updated in the beta, and the general release dforce can lag very far behind. The dforce in 4.10 was extremely buggy and constantly exploded or even crashed Daz. This is why just saying users could open an instance of the beta and general release is not good enough.

     

    So why should I punish myself with an inferior work around just because some users can't handle multiple instances? It makes no sense to me. Are you saying this really that big of an issue that support decided to kill the option off entirely?

     

    And how can I be sure that using the beta and general release for instances will continue to work in the future??? Like if the same people complain about instances now also try doing that, and complain some again, perhaps Daz figures out a way to stop that as well.

     

    So yeah, I rather think that is where this is going. That eventually we wont be able to run more than one instance of Daz even when trying to do multiple versions. And all because some people have problems. Removing a feature from everybody just because of a few is a terrible.

     

    I think other people have done a decent job of explaining the issue here as well. Its all about workflow. Too many people use multiple instances as a part of their everyday workflow. And Daz just killed that. Now users are going to have to take a lot longer when working. And for those people where time equals money, that is a very bad situation. I can imagine this could even effect some PAs who use instances while developing their products. This move effectively harms their ability to make money by slowing them down.

     

    The TLDR version:

     

    Having multiple instances equals more money.

     

    Having multiple instances equals better use of time.

    First, I have to point out that it is a suppostion that the restriction is because the ability to run mutliple instances was because of support calls (it sounds plausible, but I can think of other possible reasons). But there are issues with running multiple instances, for example that if two instances are running doing a File>New or File>Open in one will clear the Temp folder, potentially removing files that the other instance was using, and also there are potentially issues with thing like the shared settings files. Issues that might damage the installation or cause users to lose data obviously will carry more weight than those which are more a matter of work flow.

    I see no reason to think that rstrictions might be imposed on having two different channels running at once - they don't share settings, other than the CMS and that can already cope with mutliple access (DIM, DS, Carrara) or active files (each has its own temp folder, at least by default).

    Hey Richard,

    a lot of people (including me) did use multiple instances for a long time without any issues.
    I understand that there some edge cases which can cause trouble.

    The solution is very easy, make it default single instance and add the option to enable the old multi instance behavoir (with some warnings or hide as a flag in a config file).

    This single instance restirction slows down my workflow and I will not accept this.

    My options are

    1) Stay forever with the old version

    2) 'Hack' the DLL file with that silly restriction (eg using the old dll file)

    3) Vote with my wallet

    I don't think that making this optional will hurt anyone.

    I will point out (having been thwapped upside the ehad) that Rob's Nwe features post does say "*UPDATE IN PROGRESS*", https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5003831/#Comment_5003831 . Since rob has taken the time to point that out I would imagien that there is more to come in respect to managing instances, so it may be best to wait and see what happens next - though by all means think through the issues from your point of view so that you can, if necessary, sensibly make your case to Daz if the final implementation doesn't address your needs.

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