Subject: "Poser 8/9 has stopped working"/no library after IE10/11 Win7 update? SM aware...

3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
edited November 2013 in Poser Discussion

Update 22nd November: SM are aware that there is an issue with IE11 and Poser 9 / PoserPro2012 - they are working on a hotfix. The recommended workaround till then is to revert to IE10. See post 17 (thanks Parris) P.S. To prevent IE11 being immediately reinstalled by Windows Update see post 13.

21st November 2013 - IE11 just got installed on my system and the problem came back. But I can now split it into two separate problems

1) Poser 8/9 is working but the library pane remains blank
Poser 8 - I’m seeing this after installing IE11 (my default P8 content is in an external runtime)
Poser 9 - I’m seeing this after installing IE11 (my default P9 content is in an external runtime)
- Riverdark is seeing this after installing IE10 (Riverdark - can you confirm?)
Poser Pro 2012 - Riverdark says the problem doesn’t occur (Riverdark - can you confirm?)
2) “Poser 8/9 has stopped working” message
I saw this with Poser 8 and 9 after IE 10 was installed (my default P8/9 content is in an external runtime)
With IE11 installed I see this with Poser 9 only.
I can stop the crash by deleting a specific line from my ‘LibraryPrefs.xml’ file - see post #7

ORIGINAL OP STARTS HERE
(Same post over at Renderosity Poser forum)

I'm not 100% sure that there's a cause/effect relationship here, but from the checks I've done over the past couple of days it looks likely.

But if there is a causal relationship I'd expect many, many people to have the same problem, especially since so many people have just grabbed Poser 9.

So is anybody else getting this?

More details if anybody's interested...

Initial symptoms:

Around midday on Monday 14th (two days ago) Poser 8 and Poser 9 suddenly stopped working. I start them up, the UI frame displays, but before the full UI is displayed I get that not-too-helpful " has stopped working" message.

No problem with Poser 6 though - that still works fine.

I also get the same error if I try to open McAfee Security Centre (although the real-time scanning seems okay). I haven't noticed it with any other programs (although I probably haven't run any others).

In Safe Mode I could open McAfee Security Centre and run a scan with no problem (didn't try running Poser)

Attempts to work out what's causing it:

I uninstalled Poser 8/9 and reinstalled Poser 9. Same problem.

I did a basic check of my system (Dell Inspiron 15R) - Dell Diagnostics (everything passes), chkdsk c: /r (no problems), full virus scan (McAfee Security Centre - no issues detected).

I looked at eventvwr and found the logged events (level=error, source=application, eventID=1000, taskCategory=(100)) which from what I've read possibly indicate DEP (Data Execution Prevention). The stuff I've read about getting round DEP doesn't make sense, so I did nothing.

I then used System Restore to revert to a Restore Point just prior to the first occurance. Problem gone - Poser 9 and McAfee Security Centre run fine.

On shutdown Windows Update ran again... and on rebvoot the problems back. Checked to see what was in the update - four items including "Internet Explorer 10 for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems". Uninstalled Windows 10 - problem gone.

Conclusion:

Which leads me to conclude that something in the IE10 Win7 64bit update doesn't like Poser 8/9 and McAfee Security Centre (or vice versa). But then, as I said, I'd expect loads and loads of people to have the same problem. And it could be other stuff I was doing about the same time (uninstalling/reinstalling all DAZ stuff, including DSON importer, creating an Ubuntu 12.04 bootable USB, etc - but that's unlikely given the final check i did)

(My system: Dell Inspiron 15R with Windows 7 Home Premium)

Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
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Comments

  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
    edited December 1969

    Well, with roughly 100 views of these two threads (this and the Renderosity one) nobody else seems to have the same problem. Makes it look like a particular combination of things peculiar to my system.

    Reverting to IE9 (I'm a Firefox user, and very rarely touch IE) seemed to stop the problem for me, so I'm okay for now.

    I've also reinstalled Poser 8 and 9 (with all relevant updates) - make sure I've got a clean Poser installation.

    I've also deleted the old user account on my PC and created a new one, as I've found that this often resolves strange problems.

    Also ran a Trend Micro Housecall virus scan just to double check - seems clean. Should probably do a SpyBot S+D scan and a MalwareBytes scan as a triple-check.

    And I've had this laptop for a couple of years now without doing a single complete system reinstall (which I used to do once, maybe twice, a year on my old system). I don't really fancy doing that at the moment, but it's always an option if I run into any more odd problems.

  • RivendarkRivendark Posts: 13
    edited December 1969

    I do not think it is your system, I have the same problem, and I own a Sony. I had to revert to IE9. And that was with a clean reinstall the week before.

  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,057
    edited December 1969

    I have IE 10 installed and updated, and just tried Poser Pro 2012, which is comparable to Poser 9, and the embedded Library works fine. Make sure that you have the latest SR 3.1 for Poser installed and the latest Flash plugin for IE...

    http://poser.smithmicro.com/poser9-updates.html

  • RivendarkRivendark Posts: 13
    edited December 1969

    Thank you WandW, but it doesn't seem that Poser Pro 12 is comparable to 9, as I can see the library with Pro 12, but not with 9. Go figure. oO
    Both 3dcheapskate and I have have updated with the latest SR 3.1 (from his post above), and at least in my case (not sure of 3d has done the same) to the latest Flash plugin for IE. There seem to be some combination of changes made by the IE 10 update plus the antivirus that somehow creates this issue.

  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,057
    edited December 1969

    Riverdark said:
    Thank you WandW, but it doesn't seem that Poser Pro 12 is comparable to 9, as I can see the library with Pro 12, but not with 9. Go figure. oO

    That's bizarre, as they should both use the same internal library GUI. You could try renaming Poser 9's \Runtime\ui\Flex\LSMGUI\bin-release directory, and copying in the one from PP2012.....

  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
    edited November 2013

    After a month with no problems I'm getting the same "Poser 9 has stopped working" message as before, and guess what? IE 11 was sneaked onto my system yesterday by Windows Update.

    Rather than simply uninstalling the IE11 update (which would probably remove the problem) I've done a few checks.
    It appears to be a library-related issue

    My setup: Dell Inspiron N5110, Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, Poser 6.0.3.140, Poser 8.0.3.11793, Poser 9.0.3.23027

    With my normal account (limited):
    Poser 6 works fine
    Poser 8 starts up fine, but the library pane stays blank. I can move the camera and render with no problem.
    Poser 9 starts up and displays the frames of all the panes but then crashes with a "Poser 9 has stopped working" message.

    With my administrator account:
    Poser 6 works fine
    Poser 8 starts up fine, but the library pane stays blank. I can move the camera and render with no problem.
    Poser 9 starts up fine*, but the library pane stays blank. I can move the camera and render with no problem.

    With a newly created limited account:
    Poser 6 works fine
    Poser 8 starts up fine, but the library pane stays blank. I can move the camera and render with no problem.
    Poser 9 starts up fine*, but the library pane stays blank. I can move the camera and render with no problem.

    *N.B. it asks me to manually locate several files including Camera.obj, inflite.obj, and milkmanAndy.cr2.

    If I simply remove all my external runtimes from my Poser 9 'LibraryPrefs.xml' file ('C:\Users\{account}\AppData\Roaming\Poser\9\ LibraryPrefs.xml) so it looks like this (same as the default one created for a new account)...

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
    <!-- LibraryPreferences.     -->
    <!-- Created: Thu Nov 21 10:25:59 2013    -->
    
     
     
     
    

    (Note: all backslashes in the file are single - the double backslash is a forum posting effect)

    ...then I no longer get the "Poser 9 has stopped working" message - I get the same as my administrator and new limited account, i.e. the library pane stays blank, but I can move the camera and render with no problem.

    Now to add my external runtimes back in one by one by manually editing the 'LibraryPrefs.xml' file)...

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
    edited November 2013

    Hmmm... the crash seems to be related to where Poser thinks the default content is. My 'E:\Smith Micro\Poser 9\Runtime\Libraries' has no files in it (just the empty Pose, Props, etc folders). When I installed Poser 9 I installed all the content to an external runtime 'G:\Poser\Poser 9 Content\Runtime\'.

    This one doesn't cause a crash...

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
    <!-- LibraryPreferences.     -->
    <!-- Created: Thu Oct 17 09:03:48 2013    -->
    
     
     
     
    
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    

    This one causes a crash...

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
    <!-- LibraryPreferences.     -->
    <!-- Created: Thu Oct 17 09:03:48 2013    -->
    
     
     
     
     
    

    (Note: all backslashes in the files are single - the double backslash is a forum posting effect)

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
    edited November 2013

    WandW said:
    I have IE 10 installed and updated, and just tried Poser Pro 2012, which is comparable to Poser 9, and the embedded Library works fine. Make sure that you have the latest SR 3.1 for Poser installed and the latest Flash plugin for IE...

    http://poser.smithmicro.com/poser9-updates.html

    Thank you WandW, but it doesn't seem that Poser Pro 12 is comparable to 9, as I can see the library with Pro 12, but not with 9. Go figure. oO
    Both 3dcheapskate and I have have updated with the latest SR 3.1 (from his post above), and at least in my case (not sure of 3d has done the same) to the latest Flash plugin for IE. There seem to be some combination of changes made by the IE 10 update plus the antivirus that somehow creates this issue.

    Okay, the 'seeing the library' bit is a slightly different problem and is probably at the root of it. I can now get round the "stopped working" , so I've split the original problem into two separate parts:

    Poser 8/9 is working but the library pane remains blank
    and when you mouse-over the library pane the busy cursor is displayed.
    Poser 8 - I'm seeing this after installing IE11 (my default P8 content is in an external runtime)
    Poser 9 - I'm seeing this after installing IE11 (my default P9 content is in an external runtime)
    - Riverdark is seeing this after installing IE10 (Riverdark - can you confirm?)
    Poser Pro 2012 - Riverdark says the problem doesn't occur (Riverdark - can you confirm?)

    "Poser 9 has stopped working":
    I saw this with Poser 8 and 9 after IE 10 was installed.
    With IE11 installed I see this with Poser 9 only.
    I can stop the crash by deleting a specific line from my ‘LibraryPrefs.xml’ file (see previous post) but then I'm still left with the blank library pane

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
    edited November 2013

    WandW said:
    I have IE 10 installed and updated, and just tried Poser Pro 2012, which is comparable to Poser 9, and the embedded Library works fine. Make sure that you have the latest SR 3.1 for Poser installed and the latest Flash plugin for IE...

    http://poser.smithmicro.com/poser9-updates.html

    Just checked Flash Player (Control Panel > Flash Player (32 bit) ) - both Active X and Plug-in are at 11.9.900.117 and my systems set to automatically update, so why didn't it? I just spotted that 11.9.900.152 is the latest!

    IE11.0.9600.16428 (both 32 bit and 64bit) annoyingly the Help > About doesn't say whether it's the 32 bit or 64 bit version you're running.

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
    edited November 2013

    Just did a system restore to the point before the update (and there was just the one update, IE11). Result: Adobe Flash 11.9.900.117 (both plug-in and ActiveX) and IE9 (I think- I didn't actually check! So it could have been IE10...) - Poser 8/9 working fine, as before.

    On shutdown IE11 was forcefully installed on my system again - still can't find any way to prevent that. And on reboot? Still Adobe Flash 11.9.900.117 (both plug-in and ActiveX) but now IE11.00.9600.16428 (both 32 and 64 bit) - Poser 8/9 have the blank library pane problem again

    I updated Adobe Flash to the latest 11.9.900.152 (both plug-in and ActiveX) - no change, Poser 8/9 have the blank library pane problem.

    So I know I can get round the problem by using IE9...but Windows Update is forcing an IE11 reinstall on shutdown, which brings the problem back.

    I'm really approaching my wits end with this...

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
    edited November 2013

    With the Adobe Flash hint from WandW here (and ironsoul over at the Renderosity thread) I found these related threads:

    - Poser 9 - Content window not exististing
    - Content Library and Adobe Flash Player problem
    - Poser-9 Libraries Loading Slowly or Not At All
    - http://www.alexstanhope.com/blog/technology/226/when-windows-updates-fix-poser-problems

    So it's not a new problem then, and those threads seem to confirm that it's actually an Adobe Flash issue.

    So if I understand correctly Poser uses the Active-X version of Adobe Flash for the library pane. And it appears that somehow IE10/11 is messing this up for me and one other...

    Still haven't got to the bottom of it though, so any thoughts or insights would be mightily appreciated.

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
    edited November 2013

    Hmmm... just noticed that opening the 'Content' tab in Poser 8/9 causes a "Poser 8/9 has stopped working" crash... (but only when I'm connected to the internet)

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,057
    edited December 1969

    This will prevent automatic installation of IE 11...

    http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=40722

    IE 11 now includes Flash, and apparently it handles Flash in a way that is not compatible with Poser...

  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
    edited November 2013

    WandW said:
    This will prevent automatic installation of IE 11...

    http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=40722

    IE 11 now includes Flash, and apparently it handles Flash in a way that is not compatible with Poser...

    Hmmm... so does anybody have Poser and IE11 playing happily together?

    P.S. The 'Toolkit to Disable Automatic Delivery of Internet Explorer 11' gave me a good chuckle! The fact that it's genuine makes it even funnier!

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301
    edited December 1969


    P.S. The 'Toolkit to Disable Automatic Delivery of Internet Explorer 11' gave me a good chuckle! The fact that it's genuine makes it even funnier!

    Microsoft has been doing that for a long time -- since IE6, I think.

  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
    edited December 1969

    I've still got IE11 installed, and I'm going to give it another day or so and try a few things before reverting to IE9/10 (Luckily I've also got Poser 6 which is unaffected by this problem, so I'm not totally Poserless!)

    If anybody has any more ideas let me know. Here's two I can't try, but which might work for other people:
    - using the PP2012/Poser 10 version of 'LSMGUI.swf' in place of the Poser 9 one is not an option for me, but seemed to resolve a similar issue in September.
    - Changing the library launch behavior (under preferences) to foreground instead of embedded sounds promising, but the option isn't there in Poser 8/9 !

  • ParrisParris Posts: 389
    edited December 1969

    This Morning Windows 7 prompted me to install IE 11 so I did. My Poser Libary went blank (unusable). After a few hours of searching, I found this thread and tried uninstalling the IE 11 update (reverting back to IE 10). Problem solved.

    Not being able to run the latest version of IE is not ideal if you do any web development though, so I just contacted Chat Support at Smith Micro and got some good info:

    From John at SM: "Microsoft’s recent browser upgrade to Internet Explorer 11 and the included security changes along with some new browser features which have impacted Poser 9 and Poser Pro 2012 in unexpected ways that results in the application being unable to launch or corrupting the Library. Though Poser 9 and Poser Pro 2012 are a discontinued product, our Engineers are creating a hot-fix to resolve the changes resulting from Internet Explorer 11 to make Poser 9 compatible with IE 11.

    The Engineers are working on this hotfix now, however this process needs to be well tested before it can be released. At this time, they are projecting to have a hotfix within the next two weeks for Poser 9. Poser Pro 2012 will be later...

    To resolve this issue in the meantime, you will need to Roll Back to IE 10.

    As a Poser Pro 2012 user, you have another option -

    Go to C:\Users\\AppData\Roaming\Poser Pro\9\. Open Poser.ini using Notepad, locate the Line USE_OPENGL and change the 1 to a 0"

    Since I already reverted back to IE 10 (and found that worked), I haven't tried disabling OpenGL. However, this seems like it will be a widespread problem as Windows machines routinely apply the IE update automatically, so I thought I should share this. For me, I tried deleting Poser prefs, updating Flash and Adobe air, and unchecking "Automatically detect settings" in IE 11 > Tools > Connections tab > LAN Settings. None of these solutions helped me get my Poser library back.

    Keep your eyes out for a hotfix from SM at some point. In the mean time I hope this info helps.

  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the info - I'll add it to the OP. (I guess Poser 8 is too old now to deserve a fix?)

  • Stezza_Carrara9Stezza_Carrara9 Posts: 4,586
    edited December 1969

    As I'm using windows 8.1 & PP2012 it's not possible to revert back to IE10 as IE11 is part of the OS and can't be reverted back according to MS.

    So I'll have to wait for an update from SM :(

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 10,821
    edited December 1969

    I just had this happen the other day with windows updates. I just removed the IE11 update and it works now

  • paul_eb4b80f32cpaul_eb4b80f32c Posts: 3
    edited December 1969

    I got the same problem. One fix would be to remove the 'poser phone home' requirement, and break the link with ie altogether.

    After all, I bought a program for animation, not web browsing.

    Perhaps it's just me...

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 53,661
    edited December 1969

    Unfortunately it isn't just a "phone home" function - it actually uses IE to underpin the library pane.

  • ByrdieByrdie Posts: 1,443
    edited November 2013

    Which, in my personal opinion, is the biggest mistake the developers ever made. Especially for those of us who loathe IE like the poison it is and refuse to have anything to do with it whenever possible. Were it not for Poser's dependence on the damn thing (as of Poser 8 & up, Poser 7 & under is free of IE contamination) it wouldn't even be on my system. Here's hoping they come to their senses and remove all IE dependence before the next version comes out. Meanwhile, maybe they'll see this as a wake-up call.

    Post edited by Byrdie on
  • paul_eb4b80f32cpaul_eb4b80f32c Posts: 3
    edited November 2013

    Unfortunately it isn't just a "phone home" function - it actually uses IE to underpin the library pane.

    That was kind of my point. Creating artificial dependencies purely to ensure there's a link to the content site (and the "in-app purchase" function) is not what I thought I was paying for. I can understand it with Daz, but when you pay for a program, it shouldn't come with what is just really adware attached, to my mind.

    Edit: it also ties you into the windows upgrade cycle, with successive windows updates destroying earlier software, thus forcing an upgrade. I resent paying for something to have it taken away arbitrarily by some unrelated software vendor, which is becoming more frequent as time goes on. I thought Windows had managed to avoid that, but it seems I was wrong.

    Think I'll go back to the paintbrush. Less trouble and much less costly, and I can't be held to ransom by a paintbrush vendor on the basis that there are only two main alternatives.

    Post edited by paul_eb4b80f32c on
  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,057
    edited December 1969

    Byrdie said:
    Which, in my personal opinion, is the biggest mistake the developers ever made. ..

    It was a business decision, which enables SM to use the same GUI system for multiple programs, and thus reduce development costs. Since Smith Micro lost over $25 million last year (their big business is mobile phone software) they need to mind their pennies.....
  • paul_eb4b80f32cpaul_eb4b80f32c Posts: 3
    edited November 2013

    WandW said:
    Byrdie said:
    Which, in my personal opinion, is the biggest mistake the developers ever made. ..

    It was a business decision, which enables SM to use the same GUI system for multiple programs, and thus reduce development costs. Since Smith Micro lost over $25 million last year (their big business is mobile phone software) they need to mind their pennies.....

    ...which is not a good reason to alienate their customer base further by allowing third parties to break their software, tying up developer time (two weeks, mind you) which could be used developing programs or a proprietary GUI.

    Post edited by paul_eb4b80f32c on
  • ByrdieByrdie Posts: 1,443
    edited November 2013

    Maybe from a business/profit point of view it was a "good" decision but not from a user's point of view. At least not this user. And yet, these are the same people who had such a problem with Genesis when it came out and did not want to tie their software to somebody else's (Daz), thus the DSON import compromise was born. Yet they see nothing at all problematic with tying it to Microsoft's IE, which many people hate and will not use because of it's many weaknesses. I dunno about anyone else, but that makes no sense to me. :roll:

    Post edited by Byrdie on
  • edited December 1969

    Maya_user said:
    WandW said:
    Byrdie said:
    Which, in my personal opinion, is the biggest mistake the developers ever made. ..

    It was a business decision, which enables SM to use the same GUI system for multiple programs, and thus reduce development costs. Since Smith Micro lost over $25 million last year (their big business is mobile phone software) they need to mind their pennies.....

    ...which is not a good reason to alienate their customer base further by allowing third parties to break their software, tying up developer time (two weeks, mind you) which could be used developing programs or a proprietary GUI.

    Heh, heh, heh! That reminds me of the time (in the not too distant past...) that Renderosity added some Facebook stuff to their site (to let people comment using their Faecebook accounts I think?). A few weeks later a "Please log into your Facebook account to proceed" pop-up appeared every time you went to Renderosity, blocking access to the site till you scrolled up/down, found the pop-up and told it to *** off!

  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,057
    edited December 1969

    Maya_user said:

    ...which is not a good reason to alienate their customer base further by allowing third parties to break their software, tying up developer time (two weeks, mind you) which could be used developing programs or a proprietary GUI.

    It is dependent already on third party software, namely, the operating system. I don't think people would be willing to install a new OS on their computer to use Poser (and not just because it would likely be called 'Poser Operating System', aka POS :lol: )
  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,047
    edited November 2013

    Poser 9 Win SR3.2 Released

    The Poser 9 Win SR3.2 fix is released - http://poser.smithmicro.com/poser9-updates.html - a note on that page says that "Poser 9 Win SR3.2 provides support for Windows users who are running Internet Explorer 11"

    (I haven't tried it yet - I'm happy enough with my IE11-blocker for now!)

    According to Parris't near the top of this page there should be a PoserPro2012 hotfix in the works too.

    It seems that Poser 8 users are out of luck - it's just too darn old now for SM to bother with.

    I didn't think that Poser 10 wasn't affected by the problem (but I might be wrong)? Neither was Poser 7 (I think?). Poser 6 was definitely fine even with IE11 installed.

    Not sure about PoserPro 2010? Probably too old, like Poser 8...

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
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