JULY New Users Contest WIP Thread

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Comments

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    I can't add much to what has already been said in the way of advice.

    IMHO regarding poses so the art pleases the eye, balance is a key factor, even in a transitional phase of action. This can be done by adjusting the pose or the camera. Sometimes just moving the camera, even tilting it sideways can balance a pose without the need to adjust the pose itself.


    Props, ground (as mentioned before) and even a sky dome can help you visualise the pose better. Having a visual frame of reference for me makes the posing eaier.


    But it the pose is not balanced then IMHO it needs something in the image to show us why it is not balanced, like motion blur for one example.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Oh I forgot I found this webpage to be very helpful http://www.elfwood.com/farp/figure/williamlibodyconstruction.html

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 12,300
    edited December 1969

    version3 said:
    I am working on this one for my second entry and have been looking at for so long even my glasses have gone crosseyed. Thought I would post what I have done hoping you can see the things I've missed.

    Fantastic job. I don't see anything that could use improvment

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I see everyone is doing great work and anything I would cover has been covered by others. Just like DAZ_ann0314 posing took me a long time, you people are naturals.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,258
    edited July 2012

    Mmm, k will adress a couple points here not to belabor the point or to be controversial but because I believe this is an area of art that is not sufficiently understood and is overlooked or taught incorrectly imo. Balance is taught as the 'holy grail' of image creation and while that is correct in most instances there are advanced applications where imbalance is the point as it gives energy to the image. It creates a sense of unease in the viewer and that is exactly the point. Balance does the opposite of this.

    Szark said:
    ... balance is a key factor, even in a transitional phase of action...
    I think this misses the whole point of 'transitional phase.' Transitional phase is that phase that is when the character, object etc is 'out of balance' as in 'I lost my balance.' It is a very short instance because it results in some action that restores balance. Even falling is actually in balance and therefore an action move, not a transitional one. A transitional pose is one that you know something must be done instantaneously to restore balance or balance will be imposed.

    But it the pose is not balanced then IMHO it needs something in the image to show us why it is not balanced, like motion blur for one example.

    The source image has no motion blur and I believe Scott got the feet accurate to the source image the first time. The character in the image will either fall or will do something to re-balance himself. What will happen? Perhaps he'll fall, perhaps he will spin around to swing at the character approaching from behind... whatever happens 'something will happen.' That very question provides the basis for the story of the image. Think of a person falling, if that person is in balance it is often referred to as a "Matrix" move as the person seems hovering in air. If one catches one just as they lose their balance but in the process of regaining it by going into a fall or other move, it adds energy. If one catches someone just a fraction of an instant before, it adds tension that properly used gives even more energy in the form of suspense (as to what will happen.)

    Edit: thinking about it, I realized in lew of the 'motion blur', the tension in the muscles do help provide some of that counterbalance, not enough to provide 'balance' to the image as that's not the point, but enough to reinforce the idea of the energy in the image. Methinks this pose requires changes to the leg and possibly arm muscles ;)

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,258
    edited July 2012

    Gedd said:
    chohole said:
    Might sound silly, but sometimes, if you are a bit dubious about a pose, try doing something similar yourself, ans wee which is the most natural way to do it. I frquently try poses out like that, just to check.

    That's good advice except for two things, some poses require strength and/or dexterity that the person creating the pose doesn't possess and two, in the case of a transitional pose because the character is in the middle of a movement where they are off balance (definition of a transitional pose) one would fall down doing the pose.

    I should qualify this a bit better. If anyone saw a post I did a while back with a pole dancer they might have noticed the pose was totally impractical. Not on first glance for many people but some would have spotted it right off and others would have noticed 'something wasn't right.' If we notice something's not right outside of rules we've taken on (because if it looks right but the 'rules' say it isn't, the rules might not apply to this instance) then there is usually something out of wack. In this pose, after I posted it, I had that 'something's not right' feeling and did exactly what chohole said, sort of. I can't do pole dancing by any stretch, but I did grab a pole and found that even trying to approximate the pose didn't square with gravity. Point is, I actually agree wholeheartedly with this 99% of the time.

    For that matter, I agree with everyone I've offered a different point of view with, 99% of the time. In the end, it's all about the artists given artistic sensiblity though, that's what makes it art ;?

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • MandirantsMandirants Posts: 1,259
    edited July 2012

    Wow! Some great starts and wonderful tips in here so far! :) Glad I got a chance to get in here to peek at things. I've been feeling a little under the weather lately, but I do have some intention of coming in with my own tips for you guys... lol I just got to try to get rid of this headache first... :)

    Good luck, everyone!

    Post edited by Mandirants on
  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,314
    edited July 2012

    Well, the character is definitely not balanced in either my first or second image...this is clear from other camera angles. The character in the reference image may not be perfectly balanced, but he does look less unstable. I think the new pose works better as a static pose, but perhaps that's the wrong way of looking at it...

    I have some ideas and the feedback has been helpful...probably more so than if everyone was in agreement!

    One other thing I've learned...pay attention to the proportions of the figure/shape/morph you're using. I started off trying to pose M5, but dialing in some D3 really helped me match him up with the ref image.

    Post edited by Scott Livingston on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Interesting read Gedd thanks for the added info. I am still learning so this is good stuff.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited July 2012

    Szark said:
    Interesting read Gedd thanks for the added info. I am still learning so this is good stuff.
    I was not going to comment on this, But! Many comic artist use that type of pose to great effect just for the reasons that have been pointed out. That said I am the first one who thought the pose should be more balanced.

    It's all subjective and in the eye of the beholder I belive. To me it looked off, to Gedd it looked right, and with that part hidden it's all really up to the artist and what they think is proper for thier image. Is it an off balance mid pose? Is it a balanced action pose? Only the true original artist could answer that question. Both poses do have a time and a place.
    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,258
    edited July 2012

    Community and sharing is about learning and growing from each other. I don't pretend my opinion is more or less correct than anyone, just different sometimes. It's all about the love, community hugs all around ;)

    Btw, more pictures.. this is a great challenge/exercise. I had thought of taking reference screencaps from movies/videos before but never thought of setting them to background image. This technique would be great with Puppeteer for doing animation clips. I thought I read Puppeteer was buggy with 4.5 though, is this correct/still the case?

    Adding a transitional frame or two to an animation clip can give that bit of reality 'edge' to a motion similar to adding noise to a too clean scene.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    It has begun PEOPLE. Day 10 and the first Final Render has been submited. And I for one like it.

  • squirrelvidssquirrelvids Posts: 11
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    It has begun PEOPLE. Day 10 and the first Final Render has been submited. And I for one like it.

    Thanks Jaderail. It was so much fun, I might even do another if I can manage it. :)

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,258
    edited July 2012

    I just found this thread. I had no idea the contest had been going on 10 days.

    How long are entries being accepted?

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    I just found this thread. I had no idea the contest had been going on 10 days.

    How long are entries being accepted?

    Check this out Gedd, you have loads of time.

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3452/
  • atticanneatticanne Posts: 3,009
    edited July 2012

    This is as far as I got last night and I know I have a long way to go. Am I heading in the right direction?


    Edit: That's her pistol sticking through her leg.

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    Post edited by atticanne on
  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Good start Attic Anne. Lets see if we can help you along some. If you look at your referance image you can tell the little lady is sitting on a floor. I think if you load a Primative Plane you could use it to help you line up your figure better. It would give you the referance to set the feet and hand on so they look more like your referance image.

  • AydenShadeAydenShade Posts: 10
    edited December 1969

    Alright, edited it some more.

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  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hello AydenShade. I think this is better, the females foot is positioned better for one. Now lets see if we can help you with just one or two things.

    I think the Males front leg should be bent just a little bit more. That will get your female leaning forward that little bit she needs.
    Then if you put a bend in her upper torso She will have the action CURVE your referance image has.

    I think that will get you were you want to be. I hope this helps.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 12,300
    edited July 2012

    Agree with Jaderail on this one AydenShade. I think the females needs a bit more of an arch to her, but your off to a good start.

    Post edited by frank0314 on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    edited December 1969

    I keep looking at it, and can't quite work out what needs to change. The trouble the lower part of the male is blending into the background, so it is not clear how he is standing exactly, but I think his hip needs lowering, so that his right leg is more bent, and then his left leg would stretch out further. That would gvie the female a little more purchase on his thigh. She needs to twist a little as well as arching backwards a little.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Alright, edited it some more.
    This is what I see that needs to be tweeked.

    Finer means finer detail like the grip of the hand but these should be done at the end of the posing.

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  • atticanneatticanne Posts: 3,009
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Good start Attic Anne. Lets see if we can help you along some. If you look at your referance image you can tell the little lady is sitting on a floor. I think if you load a Primative Plane you could use it to help you line up your figure better. It would give you the referance to set the feet and hand on so they look more like your referance image.

    Can I just use androgynous Genesis until I get the pose right? Her clothes are in the way of my seeing where her body is.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Yes as long is it has no skin texture on as I did in my example. I was going to mention that in my post but got interupted with a delivery and then forgot. Sorry about that. :)

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    I think cho mentioned about doing the pose yourself. I do it all the time and in the mirror, oh the looks I got from my wife...funny so funny. Now she is used to it. But it does help.

  • atticanneatticanne Posts: 3,009
    edited December 1969

    Good, thanks for the quick reply, Szark. I'm using your tip about putting the original as my backdrop. I forgot to remove it for my many saves and the clothed one was the only one I removed it for. I change a little and save, do a little more and save. It's taking me a long time, but that's okay. I'll get there eventually.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Yeah 3.15 am and I can't sleep hence the quick reply. Yes it does take time. I have spent days on getting a pose right.

  • atticanneatticanne Posts: 3,009
    edited December 1969

    I don't feel so bad then. I switched to using Gumdrops because they are simpler. Only been using 3D for almost a year; no background in art. My head is spinning madly.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    AtticAnne said:
    Only been using 3D for almost a year; no background in art. My head is spinning madly.
    Been doing this coming up 3 years soon. Don't let my May 2009 fool you. It was a good 5 months before I really got in to it. I also have no background in Art at all. In fact I hadn't done anything artistic from the age of 11 until I was 46 and my head is still spinning but not as madly now. LOL
  • SasjeSasje Posts: 835
    edited July 2012

    AtticAnne said:
    This is as far as I got last night and I know I have a long way to go. Am I heading in the right direction?


    Edit: That's her pistol sticking through her leg.


    Yes you are in the right direction only you need to fix a few things, I think you’re working on it.
    Only I can say is look at your example and see how she is sitting, specially her upper body.

    You’re doing fine.:)

    Post edited by Sasje on
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