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Comments
Great input, Dalia! Indeed, even at the present DressShop 1.0 you can import any dress via the Accessories library.
Laslo
But accessories can't be cut and styled. Any dresses that you want to style have to be loaded in the beginning via the import obj.
However i have sometimes cut and shaped my own "accessories" and then later made a dress, and imported the 'accessory" to attach to the dress.
Also, go wild with primitives! you can export primitives from Daz, import into Dress Shop, and go crazy cutting shapes in them and shaping them.
But accessories can't be cut and styled. Any dresses that you want to style have to be loaded in the beginning via the import obj.
However i have sometimes cut and shaped my own "accessories" and then later made a dress, and imported the 'accessory" to attach to the dress.
Also, go wild with primitives! you can export primitives from Daz, import into Dress Shop, and go crazy cutting shapes in them and shaping them.
This is absolutely right for DressShop 1.0. I was somewhat clumsy when I did not explain the process:-(
Here's an illustration of bringing in a narrow dress initially with "Import OBJ", then cut it and then load it into the Accessory library.
Good catch, Alia!
oooh, i see what you mean now!! I gotta try that :) thanks for clarifying, that's new to me :D
Hey Laslo, have you considered including polygon extrusion? For example, cutting a "border" on the dress (where cloth ends, say at the end of a sleeve or the base of a dress or the neckline) then being able to select the border (which acts as a seam) then give it "thickness" (extrusion) to simulate thickness of cloth?
I wouldn't know how to code it, but the basic premise would be to duplicate the "border" polygons, scale the duplicate slightly along the xz axis, flip the normals of the duplicate (or original, whichever is facing inboard) then bridge (connect via edge) the duplicates by connecting the verticies one-to-one. If you need more information, let me know. If you think this suggestion sounds foolish, then nevermind. Lol.
Definitely. Not sure if this is a DressShop 2.0 or 3.0 possibility...
honestly i don't see much use for extrusion. I am probably the odd one out, but i'd rather cut the border, and then use shaders/displacement/bump to get the thickness I want without messing with geometry. Keeping the dress more versatile in the end. Just my 2 cents but i'm sure others will definitely disagree. ;)
::Raises hand:: Me! Me! I disagree, lol. :P
Displacement is all fine and dandy, but can add to render time. It also has a more significant impact on geometry, since it requires a surface to be subdivided. This is fine if you are doing a single character shot, (ie: Glamor shot) but the more you start adding to a scene, finding the balance between detail and render times (especially if you work for production/comics/animation) where an extruded surface would be more beneficial to displacement maps.
Another fine benefit to extrusion is when creating seams (like most fitted fabric tends to have) you can avoid the "paper cloth" that the typical cut outfit that comes out of Dress Shop has. I know it is difficult to convince someone of something they don't believe in, but DAZ's push modifier only really works best on double sided models. When you apply a push modifier to a plane, the plane only shifts. When you apply the push modifier to a cube, it widens. The "paper effect" is fine for parts that won't be rendered, but if you have a sleeve that the camera can see down/into, that small detail will make all the difference in a render.
Bump maps, on the other hand, don't actually change the thickness of an object, but rather tell the light how to react off of a surface during render time, based on the angle of the camera and light sources. At extreme angles, the bump map will not have any effect on the model.
In Dress Shop, I imagine the workflow would be similar to how the rest of the program operates. You select the cut you want extruded, adjust the extrude amount on a slider, then hit the "Make Border/Seam/Thickness" button. All the *actual* thinking routines could be handled under the hood, so it'd be nice and easy for the user to operate. If you take a look at most of the well done clothing here or at Rendo, you'll find almost all cloth simulates thickness (through in-folded polygons or 'borders') at points where cloth ends. There's a reason for this, and while I know that the goal of this program wasn't to create PA quality clothing, if the Abalone LLC can create a program that is just a little bit closer to doing so, why wouldn't they?
I like the program, I think it's cute, and it's great for making roughs and concepts of clothing I'd like to make, but I wouldn't dare use it for production. However, if thickness and dynamics where added (to pull clothing tighter or make it looser, or to simulate folds) it could easily be a great addition to anyone's workflow, and what's wrong with that?
it's not that i don't see the point of extrusion. except that it seems rather contrary to what Dress Shop is, IMO. DressShop could probably add it extrusion, but the thing is, at what point does it change from being an 'easy to use out of the box program" to a complex modeller (which it's not really meant to be). What makes it unique and different is the ultra fast, simple, easy to use tools. The part that some people ranted about (starting with premade mesh, etc) are really what makes DressShop an instant use program. Making dresses and full outfits in mere minutes is what DressShop does best. :)
And yes, i do see the point of modelling extrusion... MY point is that I'd rather leave something to have more options. If you model the extrusion, you can't take it out in the scene, it's there. If i use bump and displacement to fake it, i can change it as much as I want in Daz, giving me way more use out of it. There's pros and cons to both I guess, but I'm the kind of person who values flexibility over precision (and it's one reason why I'm sticking to genesis and not moving on to genesis 2).
Of course I was totally waiting for your rebuttal ;)
And not in a bad way, it's just clear we use the program in slightly different ways and with different priorities :)
I'm not entirely sure you understand what is meant by extrusion in this case (as 'thickening' would be a more appropriate term) The flexibility of the program would remain, as would the MAT zones created by the cutting process, so displacement/shaders/bump maps would all still be possible. The extrusion I'm thinking of doesn't really fall under "modeling" so much as it simply "thickens" a cut.
After cutting a quick sample shirt in Dress Shop, I imported it into Modo and selected the appropriate polys for each area and hit the "thicken" button (which converts single sided polys to a thickened segment). The operation in Dress Shop would be similar, I would imagine, except rather than selecting poly-by-poly, you simply select the "cut" and then click "thicken"
Unfortunately, the thickness on the sleeve wasn't set extreme enough, and if you look to the neckline, the difference is far more apparent. But when you look at the right shoulder (it's more apparent when its on the model) the shirt looks paper-like. When looking at the left shoulder (the camo colored one) the thickness adds a little more "body" to the shirt, and the thicken was made only on the neckline and the left sleeve.
I'm hoping what I said makes sense. It's not really a "modeling" function per se, but it is something that will add a little more to the program where some users don't want paper thin clothing, and want to emulate a little thickness here and there to add to it.
I do understand extrusion, having used it in a couple other programs. I'd just rather fake it. The thing is, once the thickness is there, you can't take it out in the rendering program (daz, poser) but if you fake it, you can change it. Hope that makes sense...
Again its just flexibility preference. :)
Ah! Gotcha. Still, being an option for those who want it, I think would be handy. Similarly to optionally import your own mesh into the program. You don't *have* to use the import option, but it is certainly there if you need it. :)
that's true. :) now we need starter meshes for genesis female 2 and male 2, so we can make clothes for them- being new there's not too much out yet and lots is quite pricey (and I'm not ready to start paying a lot for new figures when there's still plenty of room to love genesis) :) And Dawn. I also love Dawn ^^ but at least for Dawn and Genesis I have starter meshes to work with :D
I totally agree! A couple hours ago I asked Laslo if he would mind if I created a kind of "Add-on" pack for Dress Shop that contains different cloth shapes/model shapes and accessories or whatnot. I'm just waiting to see if he's all for it or not.
I don't see why not, it doesn't affect the program, and you can already import any other mesh and accessory already.
I think the big issue is autofit. I have to buy the SickleYield autofit dress for Genesis 2 female otherwise dresses for female 2 are a bust (because we all know that the templates that Daz Studio autofit starts with are hideously unusable 95% of the time).
For genesis I only use SickleYield's fabulous autofit templates, and I use the free and also awesome clothing creation tool kit (starter meshes and morphs!) for Dawn here: http://www.sharecg.com/v/71603/gallery/21/DAZ-Studio/Clothing-Creation-Kit-CCK-for-Dawn-DS4.5+
and free JoeQuick Meshes http://www.sharecg.com/v/67360/browse/5/3D-Model/Quicks-Quick-Resource-Meshes
again both need to be converted to bryce scale but they are excellent starting meshes :)
DressShop 2.0 will have a totally revised Accessory pack with many new items from DAZ.
Here's a sketch.
yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay! that looks super!!!! can't wait!!! :D
this sure is looking good
Remember - FREE DressShop 2.0 upgrade to current DressShop users!!!
any news on new beta testing ? :)
Thanks for asking. We are still a few weeks out....
Laslo
Do you think you could perhaps give the Mac Users some information on when or even IF you plan on providing a version for them?
I've asked about it on the original Dress Shop thread, here:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/25577/P195/#494149
But an answer here would go over well, too.
Who won the contest?