How can I create a false mirror reflection with Iray?

what i mean with false reflection is: a figure stands in front of a mirror, but what shows in the mirror reflection is something/someone different.

i know i could, if i made 2 parallel scenes (one with each figure), just somehow use a 1st render with the "reflection" figure combined in the mirror's mat for the 2nd render with the figure in front. but it's not what i want to do, also i want the scnene to be a bit dynamic, i might change poses or whatever.
the idea is do this (or the shadow trick mentioned below) 1 ONE render, without postwork in gimp or so.

had done this in 3DL a while ago with a lot of fumbling, it was possible with ubersurface. there was a different setting for each figure - one to make 1 figure have no reflection, the other to make it invisible in front of the mirror, or something like that  (been a while).
i did the same with shadows too - a figure in front of a wall, but the shadow is another figure's.

now how can i replicate those effects for an iray render? i'm still so bad with the iray render panel, i manage for normal renders but not for special stuff...

Comments

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 7,903

    Create two renders and copy/paste or cutout the part required in the mirror in post-processing.

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 619
    nicstt said:

    Create two renders and copy/paste or cutout the part required in the mirror in post-processing.

    aaand... i just jumped from joy seeing someone had answered... :/
    thanks for the precious advice - did i mention in my OP that i didn't want to do it in either postwork or in 2 renders? >_<
    up to now, it never crossed my mind to search for gimp advice in the daz forums, maybe i should?

  • punkypunky Posts: 10

    I don’t think that this would be possible to achieve with iray render- or shader settings. So if you really warnt to stick with no postwork and a single render: fake it like a magician or old school special effects would do it. One  way that comes into my mind would be to not use a mirror, but just its frame so one can look through it. Duplicate the scene mirrored behind it, just without your main figure. Similar to how they did it here: https://youtu.be/o3b16LRvAh4

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 619
    edited January 7
    punky said:

    I don’t think that this would be possible to achieve with iray render- or shader settings. So if you really warnt to stick with no postwork and a single render: fake it like a magician or old school special effects would do it. One  way that comes into my mind would be to not use a mirror, but just its frame so one can look through it. Duplicate the scene mirrored behind it, just without your main figure. Similar to how they did it here: https://youtu.be/o3b16LRvAh4

    is this because iray really tries to reproduce actual physical reality?

    cool, i wouldn't have thought of replicating the scene itself, thanks for the advice! is actually way easier than replicating the figure(s) and hiding parts/reflection... sankyou ^^
    might keep it simple with deco tho, my system might object otherwise ;)

    OMG THIS VID IS HILARIOUS laughcheeky

    Post edited by manekiNeko on
  • punkypunky Posts: 10

    is this because iray really tries to reproduce actual physical reality?

    Exactly. So unfortunately cheating it is very limited...

    Glad I could help & cheer you up smiley

  • areg5areg5 Posts: 410
    nicstt said:

    Create two renders and copy/paste or cutout the part required in the mirror in post-processing.

    aaand... i just jumped from joy seeing someone had answered... :/
    thanks for the precious advice - did i mention in my OP that i didn't want to do it in either postwork or in 2 renders? >_<
    up to now, it never crossed my mind to search for gimp advice in the daz forums, maybe i should?

    Post processing is essential to using Daz for what you are describing. In fact, post processing is extremely useful to fix things like poke through and gamma adjustment.  Get used to using it.   If I were to do that scene, I would make one with each character.  Using Photoshop, I would use the clone tool to put the image in the mirror that you want.  Pretty straightforward. 

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 619
    edited January 9
    areg5 said:
    nicstt said:

    Create two renders and copy/paste or cutout the part required in the mirror in post-processing.

    aaand... i just jumped from joy seeing someone had answered... :/
    thanks for the precious advice - did i mention in my OP that i didn't want to do it in either postwork or in 2 renders? >_<
    up to now, it never crossed my mind to search for gimp advice in the daz forums, maybe i should?

    Post processing is essential to using Daz for what you are describing. In fact, post processing is extremely useful to fix things like poke through and gamma adjustment.  Get used to using it.   If I were to do that scene, I would make one with each character.  Using Photoshop, I would use the clone tool to put the image in the mirror that you want.  Pretty straightforward. 

    i use gimp a lot after i render. exactly to correct little mistakes like poke through, artifacts - or to improve lighting changing curves. or when feet/shoes/basis of an object on the ground make this too clean cut. etc etc. or simply to add sfx, be artsy. whatever. if i wanted, i could do this in gimp too, but i wouldn't have asked about it here first, would i? i don't have anything against post-processing per se. i was just asking if i could reproduce what i had succeded to create in 3DL with iray, not how i could create "any" false mirror effect... i don't "need" this scene for any particular reason, it would just have been a challenge to pass time ~

    Post edited by manekiNeko on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 2,922
    areg5 said:
    nicstt said:

    Create two renders and copy/paste or cutout the part required in the mirror in post-processing.

    aaand... i just jumped from joy seeing someone had answered... :/
    thanks for the precious advice - did i mention in my OP that i didn't want to do it in either postwork or in 2 renders? >_<
    up to now, it never crossed my mind to search for gimp advice in the daz forums, maybe i should?

    Post processing is essential to using Daz for what you are describing. In fact, post processing is extremely useful to fix things like poke through and gamma adjustment.  Get used to using it.   If I were to do that scene, I would make one with each character.  Using Photoshop, I would use the clone tool to put the image in the mirror that you want.  Pretty straightforward. 

    i use gimp a lot after i render. exactly to correct little mistakes like poke through, artifacts - or to improve lighting changing curves. or when feet/shoes/basis of an object on the ground make this too clean cut. etc etc. or simply to add sfx, be artsy. whatever. if i wanted, i could do this in gimp too, but i wouldn't have asked about it here first, would i? i don't have anything against post-processing per se. i was just asking if i could reproduce what i had succeded to create in 3DL with iray, not how i could create "any" false mirror effect... i don't "need" this scene for any particular reason, it would just have been a challenge to pass time ~

    Well why not use 3DL? That's one thing it does better than IRay. And if you use 3DL with scripted pathtracing and aweSurface you can accieve pretty much same level of realism as IRay + take advantage of all the things a biased renderer can do. Just my 2cents;)

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 7,903
    nicstt said:

    Create two renders and copy/paste or cutout the part required in the mirror in post-processing.

    aaand... i just jumped from joy seeing someone had answered... :/
    thanks for the precious advice - did i mention in my OP that i didn't want to do it in either postwork or in 2 renders? >_<
    up to now, it never crossed my mind to search for gimp advice in the daz forums, maybe i should?

    You did; I'm sorry I missed that. Why?

    The finished image matters, not how one got there.

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 619
    edited January 11
    areg5 said:
    nicstt said:

    Create two renders and copy/paste or cutout the part required in the mirror in post-processing.

    aaand... i just jumped from joy seeing someone had answered... :/
    thanks for the precious advice - did i mention in my OP that i didn't want to do it in either postwork or in 2 renders? >_<
    up to now, it never crossed my mind to search for gimp advice in the daz forums, maybe i should?

    Post processing is essential to using Daz for what you are describing. In fact, post processing is extremely useful to fix things like poke through and gamma adjustment.  Get used to using it.   If I were to do that scene, I would make one with each character.  Using Photoshop, I would use the clone tool to put the image in the mirror that you want.  Pretty straightforward. 

    i use gimp a lot after i render. exactly to correct little mistakes like poke through, artifacts - or to improve lighting changing curves. or when feet/shoes/basis of an object on the ground make this too clean cut. etc etc. or simply to add sfx, be artsy. whatever. if i wanted, i could do this in gimp too, but i wouldn't have asked about it here first, would i? i don't have anything against post-processing per se. i was just asking if i could reproduce what i had succeded to create in 3DL with iray, not how i could create "any" false mirror effect... i don't "need" this scene for any particular reason, it would just have been a challenge to pass time ~

    Well why not use 3DL? That's one thing it does better than IRay. And if you use 3DL with scripted pathtracing and aweSurface you can accieve pretty much same level of realism as IRay + take advantage of all the things a biased renderer can do. Just my 2cents;)

    let's say, just for argument's sake, that i would be interested, what are "scripted pathtracing and aweSurface"? never heard that ever, please explain?

    EDIT: ok, i found the freebie thread and then the commercial product for aweshader - thanks for the heads up ^^

    Post edited by manekiNeko on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 2,922
    areg5 said:
    nicstt said:

    Create two renders and copy/paste or cutout the part required in the mirror in post-processing.

    aaand... i just jumped from joy seeing someone had answered... :/
    thanks for the precious advice - did i mention in my OP that i didn't want to do it in either postwork or in 2 renders? >_<
    up to now, it never crossed my mind to search for gimp advice in the daz forums, maybe i should?

    Post processing is essential to using Daz for what you are describing. In fact, post processing is extremely useful to fix things like poke through and gamma adjustment.  Get used to using it.   If I were to do that scene, I would make one with each character.  Using Photoshop, I would use the clone tool to put the image in the mirror that you want.  Pretty straightforward. 

    i use gimp a lot after i render. exactly to correct little mistakes like poke through, artifacts - or to improve lighting changing curves. or when feet/shoes/basis of an object on the ground make this too clean cut. etc etc. or simply to add sfx, be artsy. whatever. if i wanted, i could do this in gimp too, but i wouldn't have asked about it here first, would i? i don't have anything against post-processing per se. i was just asking if i could reproduce what i had succeded to create in 3DL with iray, not how i could create "any" false mirror effect... i don't "need" this scene for any particular reason, it would just have been a challenge to pass time ~

    Well why not use 3DL? That's one thing it does better than IRay. And if you use 3DL with scripted pathtracing and aweSurface you can accieve pretty much same level of realism as IRay + take advantage of all the things a biased renderer can do. Just my 2cents;)

    let's say, just for argument's sake, that i would be interested, what are "scripted pathtracing and aweSurface"? never heard that ever, please explain?

    EDIT: ok, i found the freebie thread and then the commercial product for aweshader - thanks for the heads up ^^

    No problem;) Sorry should have provided the links, glad you found them anyway:)

  • kamenekokameneko Posts: 431

    Why don't you want to post-process your renders? It's fundamental! It allows me to remove fireflies, to fix clothes fitting problems, to set the right tone mapping...

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 619
    edited January 13
    kameneko said:

    Why don't you want to post-process your renders? It's fundamental! It allows me to remove fireflies, to fix clothes fitting problems, to set the right tone mapping...

    PLEASE read my comment 6 posts above. see, that's one of the reasons i'm not a fan of forums in general. many people answer before they read your OP or your added comments, and/or they answer beside the point, or tell you exactly what you said you didn't want to hear/read, or stuff like that. a few people above got my drift luckily, and provided smart and/or informative answers, but for the other ones, every time i get an answer notice i rejoice because i think someone has either a solution or good advice... and then THAT. urgh :/

    it's like if you asked: "i'm a vegetarian, and i'm sick of the eternal cheese sandwich, can someone tell me a yummy sandwich alternative?", and you have 1 person telling you "i dunno, why don't you try ham or bacon", another tells you "sandwiches are not so healthy *wink emote*, you should eat a fresh salad *smile emote*", yet another says "personally, i love chicken & fries with a milkshake", one more asks "why are you a vegetarian? can't you eat like normal people? srsly what's your problem" - AND FINALLY, if you're lucky, someone will say "try tofu slices, it's delicious well spiced" or "in some stores you can get vegan sausage" or "try fried zucchini slices".

    Post edited by manekiNeko on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 7,903
    edited January 13

    Perhaps you should read what folks tell you.

    You say you managed with 3Delight; they are very different, one allows 'cheating', Iray the one that doesn't really like cheating is the one you wish to use - to cheat.

    After reading what they've said, you might surmise that what you want may not be possible; I don't know of a way you could do it.

    My dislike of many forums is folks being critical of those offering helpful - but in your case - unwelcome suggestions. Makes one leary of bothering in future.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • AalaAala Posts: 94

    If you really want to do it in one render, it's rather simple:

    You take your whole scene minus your figure and duplicate it behind your mirror, and cut out the mirror surface entirely. Then you mirror your duplicate scene too (meaning you put either X or Z depending on your scene to -100%). This way you'll create an elaborate 'mirror world' where you can put whatever you want on the other side. The only thing that won't 'mirror' is if you have an HDRI lighting or something similar where you can see the outside of an environment.

  • nicstt said:

    Perhaps you should read what folks tell you.

    You say you managed with 3Delight; they are very different, one allows 'cheating', Iray the one that doesn't really like cheating is the one you wish to use - to cheat.

    After reading what they've said, you might surmise that what you want may not be possible; I don't know of a way you could do it.

    My dislike of many forums is folks being critical of those offering helpful - but in your case - unwelcome suggestions. Makes one leary of bothering in future.

    If I could give you a thumbs up I would.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 2,922

    Made this in 3DL, inspired by the discussion, tks everybodysmiley no postwork:

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 619

    Made this in 3DL, inspired by the discussion, tks everybodysmiley no postwork:

    excellent! :) - age is a great idea (i thought more of monster-ish for mine). and they say "fountain of youth"...

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 2,922

    Made this in 3DL, inspired by the discussion, tks everybodysmiley no postwork:

     

    excellent! :) - age is a great idea (i thought more of monster-ish for mine). and they say "fountain of youth"...

    Tks:) Yeah I usually get it all backwardslaugh

Sign In or Register to comment.