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Photos used in WDJ's Christmas Memories

mwokeemwokee Posts: 1,275
in The Commons
There are a number of products that use real photographs of artwork and people such as WDJ's Christmas Memories. I suspect in some cases they are stock photos. Do the artists know you cannot use and sell photos unless they have obtained they have purchased or obtained the proper license/permission? Those of you who use these photos can get into legal trouble also depending on circumstances. I sell digital artwork and photography and can use the Christmas Memories product but only if I can get model and/or property release forms. Is it possible for Daz to provide this papereork? Artists and buyers beware on how you obtain, use, and distribute stock photos!

Comments

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,690
    edited November 2018

    are those photos actually in the product or just the promo?

    I have not downloaded it yet and looked

    Also since many contain the same people in different situations by looks they could well be photos he took of his own family so he owns the rights.

    read more, yes 40 images included 

    I am pretty certain they would not be included if he did not own all the rights 

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • mwokeemwokee Posts: 1,275
    The comments say vintage photos are included. I can really use this but I need paperwork. But this is an overall Daz issue. You cannot distribute stock photos without the proper permissions. I question the validity of some of the products offered by Daz. Users of these products can get into hot water as well.
  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    Those don’t look like stock photos to me. Looks like photos from someone’s personal photo collection.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,690

    can do what I do

    go to the Guttenburg online library and grab public domain books and use the illustration plates

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,690
    Serene Night said:

    Those don’t look like stock photos to me. Looks like photos from someone’s personal photo collection.

     

    and it is called WDJ's Christmas memories which suggests they are indeed his own Christmas memories

    not saying you cannot ask for clarification though

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 8,061

    Looks like Family photos immortalized in a product. Mid 80s there-abouts.

  • WinterMoonWinterMoon Posts: 2,016

    I've got no plans to create commercial renders, but just the idea of having someone's very real family pictures in my fictional characters' livingrooms... It doesn't feel comfortable.

  • ChezjuanChezjuan Posts: 544

    It's probably a good idea to open a ticket and ask about the specific release forms. Customer Service would be able to provide the official answer regarding releases, etc.

    I never use included photos in frames that I use in my renders. Mainly because they don't fit with what I want in the scene. When I have photo frames in renders, I like to have pictures of my DAZ characters in them. So if I were creating a Christmas memories-style render, I'd first do a couple of character renders, then edit the frame(s) surface(s) that show the photo(s) to include my image(s) instead of the default one. Otherwise I get friends asking "who's that guy in the frame, and why are they there?"

  • Mighty MysterioMighty Mysterio Posts: 419
    I would not use the included photos in any render I planned to share with the public, partly for the reasons described and partly because having photos of real people in a scene with Genesis characters seems odd to me. I'd rather have all the people in my scene be virtual people. I sometimes see old snapshots being sold in thrift shops and that concerns me, too, as these were personal photos with no model release forms. Yet they are treated as "found objects" by some and used in projects.
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,848

    I won't use them either as I won't even use HRDIs anymore as I want a render that looks 100% rendered but I love looking at old family photos. That was one of my draws to genealogy. The bonus shots are excellent too but more generally vacation style without any people but a few pets.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,307

    I've purchased several photo collections with all kinds of themes (environments, buildings, people, animals etc.) with an almost unrestricted license. If there are any problems with them it's the seller which is held responsible I assume. Here are the license terms:

    "The Standard License is non-exclusive, non-transferable and gives you lifetime rights to use the images supplied after purchase for Websites, videos, PDFs, online books, printed books, tshirts, physical promotional items, films, documentaries, animations, presentations, slide-shows, software, video games, applications, exhibitions, trade fairs and conferences.

    In addition, you are also granted the right to use the images supplied for similar usage when you undertake work on behalf of clients (usually referred to as "Developer Rights").

    The usage defined above is both copyright-free and royalty-free, and no further attribution is required.

    The RESALE of all or part of collection is strictly prohibited ... no "Resale Rights" are provided as part of this package.

    Should your desired usage fall outside the scope of the above license definition, please contact our helpdesk."

    Attached a sample of some of the images, there's all kinds of stuff.

     

    image_samples.jpg
    590 x 1632 - 415K
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,848
    Taoz said:

    I've purchased several photo collections with all kinds of themes (environments, buildings, people, animals etc.) with an almost unrestricted license. If there are any problems with them it's the seller which is held responsible I assume. Here are the license terms:

    "The Standard License is non-exclusive, non-transferable and gives you lifetime rights to use the images supplied after purchase for Websites, videos, PDFs, online books, printed books, tshirts, physical promotional items, films, documentaries, animations, presentations, slide-shows, software, video games, applications, exhibitions, trade fairs and conferences.

    In addition, you are also granted the right to use the images supplied for similar usage when you undertake work on behalf of clients (usually referred to as "Developer Rights").

    The usage defined above is both copyright-free and royalty-free, and no further attribution is required.

    The RESALE of all or part of collection is strictly prohibited ... no "Resale Rights" are provided as part of this package.

    Should your desired usage fall outside the scope of the above license definition, please contact our helpdesk."

    Attached a sample of some of the images, there's all kinds of stuff.

     

    I didn't see those then they are excellent too, make for some good shots to create a render scene from the pose.

  • melaniemelanie Posts: 806

    I would assume since all the artists here at DAZ are very concerned about their own copyrights of the things they sell here, they would be more than aware of what can and cannot be distributed. They're very protective of their own stuff. Also, there are some sites where you can get photos that are called (if I recall the term correctly) a "zero license," where images on the site are free for both commerial and personal use. I would also assume that DAZ is careful that copyrighted material is being used legally in their store, as it affects them as well.

  • JazzyBearJazzyBear Posts: 805

    I PERSONALLY am very cautious where I get my graphics from and that the licenses allow me to use the photos commercially. It is worth doing a "find similar" search to make sure you have "clean" pictures if you are a bit suspect. 

    People in pictures are even more touchy subject and need a release. Common people do not have copyrights but folks like Marilyn Monroe do ahve copyrights that prohibit use of anykind except from the original holders. Also The Empire State Building, the Opera House in Sydney and many other "man made structures" have copyrights and even if you take your own picture you may NOT use it commerically in a product without getting permission for the "likeness" to be used. Why websites use Getty and other sources of older material to give pictures for current events or stories.

     

  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,735
    edited November 2018

    I've purchased several photo collections with all kinds of themes (environments, buildings, people, animals etc.) with an almost unrestricted license. If there are any problems with them it's the seller which is held responsible I assume. Here are the license terms:

    Taoz said:

    "The Standard License is non-exclusive, non-transferable and gives you lifetime rights to use the images supplied after purchase for Websites, videos, PDFs, online books, printed books, tshirts, physical promotional items, films, documentaries, animations, presentations, slide-shows, software, video games, applications, exhibitions, trade fairs and conferences.

    In addition, you are also granted the right to use the images supplied for similar usage when you undertake work on behalf of clients (usually referred to as "Developer Rights").

    The usage defined above is both copyright-free and royalty-free, and no further attribution is required.

    The RESALE of all or part of collection is strictly prohibited ... no "Resale Rights" are provided as part of this package.

    Should your desired usage fall outside the scope of the above license definition, please contact our helpdesk."

    Attached a sample of some of the images, there's all kinds of stuff.

     

    So it sounds like even if you buy the packages of photos that you can't resell them. Does that mean if you include them in this type of product that it's considered resale since they're part of a pack that's being sold?

    Maybe it's his own family.. I have his London Apartment and he's got photos in there too.  I'd have to load it up and look. They appear to be family but you can't be sure.

    Post edited by sapat on
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,972

    I would replace these with my own renders or pictures as it would be odd to me to use someone elses family in photos.  Even for fake, 3d families.

  • JazzyBearJazzyBear Posts: 805

    You can NOT sell Sets of Art as Sets of Art or separate items. Similar to DAZ items and renders or Textures. You can USE them any way you want in a finished product but you do not have reseller rights unless you pay and have specific rights granted.

     

  • mwokeemwokee Posts: 1,275
    edited November 2018
    Sapat, I can't use photos included in products unless there is paperwork allowing me to use the photos in the artwork I create. There is no way around that in the commercial world, at least with agencies that adhere to the laws in place. And yes, I hope you all realize you can't use photos and JPGs included in products (those without people or trademarks) for sale unless you alter them into your own creations. You can't sell them straight out of the box. Daz does not allow you to post images in the Gallery with real people for legal reasons yet they have no problem with their artists using stock photos and reselling them. Daz should know they can be held liable if an artist is reselling images without the proper licenses in place.
    Post edited by mwokee on
  • ChangelingChickChangelingChick Posts: 3,392
    mwokee said:
    Sapat, I can't use photos included in products unless there is paperwork allowing me to use the photos in the artwork I create. There is no way around that in the commercial world, at least with agencies that adhere to the laws in place. And yes, I hope you all realize you can't use photos and JPGs included in products (those without people or trademarks) for sale unless you alter them into your own creations. You can't sell them straight out of the box. Daz does not allow you to post images in the Gallery with real people for legal reasons yet they have no problem with their artists using stock photos and reselling them. Daz should know they can be held liable if an artist is reselling images without the proper licenses in place.

    One of the requirements for selling at Daz is that you have to have the rights to anything you put up for sale. They do not require paperwork, but I'm sure you can ask for it in a help ticket. If Daz finds someone using images or objects that they do not have the rights to use, the product will be removed and the vendor can lose their store at Daz. Please keep in mind that the people that can answer this sort of thing officially are not in the forums. You need to file a ticket for this sort of thing.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,690

    or PM him

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/profile/223627/Wee%20Dangerous%20John

  • sapatsapat Posts: 1,735

    Sounds too complicated to me to even want to bother.  Probably best just to use 3d characters and be done with it unless you have an ironclad contract..  I never thought that Nazi product with the Hitler's image should have been allowed.  I thought at the time it was a violation of something to show his llikeness. People like that are part of world history, but still I don't know from a legal standpoint if it was altered enough to be sold in a product....here or anywhere.  I dunno. 

  • mwokeemwokee Posts: 1,275
    sapat said:

    Sounds too complicated to me to even want to bother.  Probably best just to use 3d characters and be done with it unless you have an ironclad contract..  I never thought that Nazi product with the Hitler's image should have been allowed.  I thought at the time it was a violation of something to show his llikeness. People like that are part of world history, but still I don't know from a legal standpoint if it was altered enough to be sold in a product....here or anywhere.  I dunno. 

    It can get complicated. Albert Einstein is in the public domain but photographs of him are copyrighted by the photographer or who ever retains the current copyright. But some Einstein photographs are in the public domain. Just one example of many. I know there are products here selling images that are not allowed. I brought this up once and the post was deleted. Pixabay.com was mentioned. You can go there and find Daz renders that have been put into the public domain. That's legal but it screws the artist. I have images that were purchased and posted on the internet legally and then others stole them from the legal web site. I have thousands of images stolen that way and it's too much for me to keep requesting the images be taken down. I had one image purchased from me only to have that person put it into their portfolio on another web site as their own artwork. I recently went through harassment training with my employer. The lawyer put on a presentation using stock images she googled. You'd think a frikken lawyer would know why the artwork she was using had watermarks in them. So yeah I will soapbox this but it's also a lost cause. Like i said previous woe to any of you who get a call from one of the lawyers at Getty Images.
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,307
    edited November 2018
    sapat said:

    I've purchased several photo collections with all kinds of themes (environments, buildings, people, animals etc.) with an almost unrestricted license. If there are any problems with them it's the seller which is held responsible I assume. Here are the license terms:

    Taoz said:

    "The Standard License is non-exclusive, non-transferable and gives you lifetime rights to use the images supplied after purchase for Websites, videos, PDFs, online books, printed books, tshirts, physical promotional items, films, documentaries, animations, presentations, slide-shows, software, video games, applications, exhibitions, trade fairs and conferences.

    In addition, you are also granted the right to use the images supplied for similar usage when you undertake work on behalf of clients (usually referred to as "Developer Rights").

    The usage defined above is both copyright-free and royalty-free, and no further attribution is required.

    The RESALE of all or part of collection is strictly prohibited ... no "Resale Rights" are provided as part of this package.

    Should your desired usage fall outside the scope of the above license definition, please contact our helpdesk."

    Attached a sample of some of the images, there's all kinds of stuff.

     

    So it sounds like even if you buy the packages of photos that you can't resell them. Does that mean if you include them in this type of product that it's considered resale since they're part of a pack that's being sold?

    I'm not really sure with the collections I'm talking about, if it's a limited number of pictures they may allow it as part of another product. There are usually over 10.000 photos in these collections so including maybe 20 in a product probably isn't a big deal. It's more if you start reselling all the photos, then you'll be a competitor to the seller. But you can always ask, they might allow it depending on the context, or on certain conditions.

    Some sellers do allow reselling the content, or offer a more expensive premium version of the collection with reseller rights. Example:

    [YES] Can be sold

    [YES] Can be used for personal use

    [YES] Can be packaged with other products

    [YES] Can modify/change the sales letter

    [YES] Can modify/change the main product

    [YES] Can modify/change the graphics and ecover

    [YES] Can be added into paid membership websites

    [YES] Can put your name on the sales letter

    [YES] Can be offered as a bonus

    [YES] Can be used to build a list

    [YES] Can print/publish offline

    [YES] Can be given away for free

    [YES] Can convey and sell Personal Use Rights

    [NO] Can be added to free membership websites

    [NO] Can convey and sell Resale Rights

    [NO] Can convey and sell Master Resale Rights

    [NO] Can convey and sell Private Label Rights

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,307
    mwokee said:
    sapat said:

    Sounds too complicated to me to even want to bother.  Probably best just to use 3d characters and be done with it unless you have an ironclad contract..  I never thought that Nazi product with the Hitler's image should have been allowed.  I thought at the time it was a violation of something to show his llikeness. People like that are part of world history, but still I don't know from a legal standpoint if it was altered enough to be sold in a product....here or anywhere.  I dunno. 

    Pixabay.com was mentioned. You can go there and find Daz renders that have been put into the public domain. That's legal but it screws the artist.

    It's only legal to declare something public domain or put it on public domain sites if you own the copyright for it. That's why it can be risky to use stuff from public domain sites, sometimes people upload other people's material and if you use it the original copyright owner can sue you.

     

     

  • Wee Dangerous JohnWee Dangerous John Posts: 1,605

    The photos are ones I took myself of my family, as FirstBastion spotted, mid 80's onwards. Hopefully you like the set and will find it useful.

    Please feel free to use the photos in your renders, copyright wise - as long as you do not sell them on in any way I'm okay. You can also swap them for your own photos or artwork using the templates provided on the download page.

    Thank you JonnyRay for pointing me to this post.

  • Carola OCarola O Posts: 3,862

    It's a great gift, many thanks WDJ! I like the photos, though knowing myself I am more likely to replace them most of the time :) 

  • caravellecaravelle Posts: 2,708
    edited December 2018

    Thank you for this nice Christmas present, WDJ! The scroll is my favourite, but all the other frames are really fine, too. I like to take my own pics and photos, but I enjoyed your collection. Happy Holidays to you and your charming family!

    Post edited by caravelle on
  • ALLIEKATBLUEALLIEKATBLUE Posts: 2,983

    Thanks so much for the lovely gift

  • ArtAngelArtAngel Posts: 2,087
    Wee Dangerous John said:

    The photos are ones I took myself of my family, as FirstBastion spotted, mid 80's onwards. Hopefully you like the set and will find it useful.

    Please feel free to use the photos in your renders, copyright wise - as long as you do not sell them on in any way I'm okay. You can also swap them for your own photos or artwork using the templates provided on the download page.

    Thank you JonnyRay for pointing me to this post.

    Thank you for these props.. I, like others, have tons of owned photos to use in these frames which you were so kind to provide texture templates to allow such.  Thank you for creating this free item for us.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,690

    one could also facegen all of WDJ's family snaps and pose the resulting DAZ figures for photos cheeky

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