Red Dead Redemption 2 (and similar)
MarcCCTx
Posts: 943
in The Commons
RDR2 comes out in a couple of hours. What are the render settings that allow it to render in real time? In Daz Studio renders take minutes even hours, what are they doing different? This applies to any of the modern game.
I want to do quick snimation renders, it doesn't need to be realtime, but I would like it to be fairly fast.
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A game engine is different from a renderer. In games, the lighting is usually very biased to create the look the developers want, while freeing up resouces for gameplay. RDR2 uses the Rockstar proprietary RAGE engine, so unless you have access to their programming your guess is as good as mine. You might try using Unity since it has more support for DAZ figures than other accessable game engines.
It's not just lighting. Video game designers work with strict polygon budgets to limit the complexity of objects, environments, and characters in the game, as well as programming tricks that limit how much of the game's assets are loaded or rendered all at once. DAZ Studio assets don't have polygon restrictions, and the program doesn't feature the programming tricks that game developers use, so realtime rendering is difficult to achieve.
FSMCDesigns is right, you'd be better off using Unity, since it is developed for realtime rendering.
This is a beautiful game. I have been playing for 36 hours (out of the 43 hours it has been out) and it is the facinating and beautiful. You can see for miles. There are mirrors, but they are inside rooms.
Does hiding the body underneath the clothes speed up the render? I have Decimator, but not sure how to get the best out of this utiluty.
Thats mostly for game engines. Geometry is usually not the showstopper in DAZ unless you go subdivide crazy, its textures. I use scene optimizer from V3digitimes, it can optimize your scene to fit on your card, usually the textures are the real memory hog, especially if they are crazy detailed with a bunch of maps.
The details they added are spectacular. The atmospheric effects, lightning, all of it looks amazing. They have a subsurface scattering effect when ears and nostrils are backlit by a bright sun. In real time. It's amazing what they pulled off with this visually.
how hard is it on resources? Thinking about getting it, but my system is a mid level i7 and newer games tend to struggle
Mine is on the normal PS4. Worst problem is the g*dd*mn horse "accidently" killing pedestrians. Then you get wanted level/bounty. I blame the horse, but I should probably ride better.
But you can see the horses muscle move under his skin.
There is no PC version of the game yet, nor has one been announced. For performance, just look at my post, which covers the Xbox One X version of the game. I'd would be surprised if no PC version ever comes, but the original RDR NEVER came to PC at all, in spite of fans begging for it. However I would be surprised if Rockstar did the same this time.
In short, it runs at a rock solid 30 fps on One X at full 4K. There are few true full 4K games out there, so it is clear this game is extremely well optimized to run so well at 4K on console, granted this is the most powerful console available. The PS4 Pro runs the game at a much lower resolution, and the base PS4 and Xbox One both have issues keeping at 30 fps at even lower resolutions. The older Xbox One is the worst performing of the bunch. My guess is a 1080ti will be able to run the PC version at 60 once the PC version releases.
They do more than hide the body under the clothes. There is NO body, no texture, no geometry, no anything, under the clothes. The clothes and body are all one model. You save on texture and geometry doing this and it is a basic element of how games are constructed. If a character changes clothes, they often have a whole new character model for the new clothes. In some games, if they give you options to change clothes, you may notice your whole character disappears and reloads with the new clothes. This is why.
It is possible to port a Daz model into a game engine, and there are a few (very few) games that use Daz models. The one that comes to mind is the horrible "House Party", which is sort of a dating game. I follow gaming a fair bit, and this game has been featured on a few youtube channels...not in a good way, they were making fun of the game. But when I saw it, I instantly recognized the cast as being Daz models. Victoria 7 is right on the 'cover', LOL. You can probably pick out and name every character in the cast if you wanted to. Anyway, if this game makes any changes to the models for performance, I do not know, but the game is nowhere near as demanding as RDR2 is. You are inside a house the whole game. So in this case they probably could get away with less optimizing. Feel free to look up videos of this, but be warned they may be NSFW for a variety of reasons, often language.
There was a bit of talk about a PC version including a Rockstar dev listing it as an option early on, so I figured it came out with the console version. Here's hoping as I hate consoles and really want to check this game out.
The game looks amazing even on a normal PS4 and it is a gigantic and immersive game world, but frankly, it's a chore to play. There are so many "realistic" elements (like needing to eat different things to restore different parameters, needing to change clothes depending on the temperature, taking baths often to keep from smelling) that it makes a lot of activities very tedious. The worst part though is the almost-surgical way you have to play; one wrong pressed button (which is easy to do because the controls are a bit complex) and all hell breaks loose and you'll need to load a saved game.
Save often (and I mean EVERY TIME you do anything productive), go slowly, and spend a lot of time memorizing the controls and it will probably be a worthwhile experience. At the moment though, I find myself going back to games like Destiny 2 and Spider-Man that simply play much better.
It is widely assumed there will be a PC version, which I would greatly prefer as well. However there is no official word on this. I do find that strange, why wait to announce it if they are planning it? The game is going to sell either way. But the Xbox One X version is pretty much what most high end PCs are going to target, with most settings at what a PC might consider high or ultra. The only question is what level of GPU it will take to run 4K 60 fps. Will it take a 1080ti or the 2080ti.
Survival elements in a Rockstar game? *sigh*
I have never been all that thrilled with actual gameplay from any Rockstar game. I hated the later GTA games because they took away a lot of freedom that older games had. GTA4 made me angry, because you were expected to do certain story missions an certain and specific way. So much so that I quit the game. There was a mission where you chase a guy. You have no choice, you must chase him in a car and then on foot to the exact same spot each time. His car is invincible, preventing you from taking him out early. Your only choice is to follow him. He can even drive right through tractor trailers, WHAT. Then you chase him on foot, again, to a certain spot on a roof. Again he is invincible. Then you get to make a choice at the very end. In past games you could have taken him out long before. In some games you might even have a rocket launcher and you could have just BOOM! Mission complete, LOL. Or you spin the car out or crash it into others. There were tons of things you could do, but in 4 the story forced you play missions their way. The gameplay has always been a bit "floaty" and not very precise. The main appeal to me was the sandbox goofiness. I had much more fun playing the Saints Row games, which also boasted coop features. The SR games had their own issues, but they were fun.
If the game does come to PC then I would would wait for mods that take that survival junk out or lesson its impact. Putting such mundane things into video games is really silly, IMO. I just want to play. If it was a RPG I might feel differently.
I looked at alot of reviews for this game. It recieved several 0 scores for not being on pc and alot of 10 scores for being "the best game in history" (sheesh). What little bits of actual information I was able to gather indicated that the game was big, beautiful, buggy and had some unfortunate design flaws. It sounded like it deserved a 7 or 8 out of a score 10 to me. I decided I wasnt going to purchase it until it had gone through several updates and even more price drops. Im not going to spend 65 bucks on average
... Ill spend it on Daz instead!
Hi,
I have nothing much to add, but this article here explains the differences between game engines (current ones) and ray tracing render engines like Iray:
https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2018/03/19/whats-difference-between-ray-tracing-rasterization/
Personally, I think in near future we can have true real-time rendering on consumer machines :D
I have to say I feel like the media outlets reviewing games these days have really lost touch. The meaning behind what a "10" or whatever their highest score is has become totally lost. Games that have obvious glaring issues are getting 10's, just like you described, inspite of bugs, flaws, or microtransactions. In particular the microtransactions. There are games that have been well reviewed but the user score is quite low. I feel like the media outlets have become quite biased, on one side or the other, and it is getting out of hand.
On the flip side, I would expect some bugs, the game is massive, and with this kind of scale and so many different systems in place there will be bugs. The question is how bad are those bugs, do they cause problems.
I have pretty much stopped reading a number of sites and tend to go for video reviews from certain people. There are some youtubers who do solid and fair reviews, and I will look at those before most of the media outlets. Even if I don't agree with some of their points, the video is often helpful enough. I might check a media review just to see what they say...and what their narrative is for that particular game.
BTW, a bit off topic, but the Steam Halloween sale just started as well. Sometimes Daz and Steam are competing for my dollar. <.<
Yep, agreed. Anytime a game is reviewed so highly by a majority of review sites I automatically get really suspicious.
Sure. Bugs are just going to be in the program, whatever it is. The bugs that I heard about that gave me concern where mission interupting. There was a video on eurogamer of the player chasing after an npc only to have the npc disappear right in front of them. And the mention about the horse accidentally killing npc's, that would drive me crazy. After having to deal with the Witcher 3 horse getting stuck on every tree it hit, the last thing I want to do is face the frustration of another poorly designed horse. And having to eat??? No thanks. In a year I figure it should be up to speed but its going to take alot of patching.
I forgot about the steam sale, gog has one going on as well.
ACG on Youtube
Haven't played much yet, I'm just after what I guess is considered the introduction. I'm also in the middle of Thronebreaker on PC, which is pretty cool if you liked the Witcher universe. Mainly just work getting in the way though.
But yeah I don't think survival elements needed to be in there. Optional like San Andreas, getting fat or ripped, would have been quite enough.
After 5 and a half days of play (I'm off this week), I am at 66% complete. But I think I am close to the end of the story line.A lot of the collection things don't seem to have any clues, you just have to cheat and look up their locations. But still I like this game..
I realize now that the reason my horse is so murderous is it is the warhorse and about a quarter larger than the rest of the horses which the game engine doesn't take into account so he collides more often then a normal size horse would.
I am still truly amazed that there can be so much on the screen with no apparent slowdown.
The gameplay is tedious because of some odd choices the developers made. You have to be in camp a lot but you are forced to slowly walk through the large camp, you cannot run. It's just frustrating when all you want to do it get to the checkpoint and leave and it takes 4 minutes to walk through the camp and back out. That's one example where instead of being immersive, it's just annoying. I feel like there should be an option to be less of a simulator of real life, where you don't have to take regular baths (where you have to slowly wash each part by selecting it) or clean all your guns. In other words, more like the last game, I guess.
But its still fun, tedious nature aside. I definitely would not give it a 10 though, maybe a 7.5 of 8. Graphics = amazing. Characters = great. Story = good. Gameplay = 75% fun, 25% agony.
BTW, if anybody is interested, the HDR is indeed broken in RDR2. For the best picture turn HDR OFF instead. This video explains it well. Also, this dude is a very good TV reviewer. If you are looking for a top end TV he can answer your questions.
I just hit a very irritating stretchin the game where it's rained for three straight days. All I want to do is hunt for some small game so I can craft a bigger satchel but the rabbits won't come out in the rain and of course, now is when it picks to simulate a long stretch of rainy weather. It's not like Red Dead Redemption (original) in that bad weather will pass in a few minutes and that's that. In this game you get torrential rain that lasts whole days, like real life. Once again, I don't really need it to be a total simuilation of real life because I'm not that interested in sleeping in my tent for days and days just to get a rabbit pelt.
I'll admit that I did do a glitch where I made a ton of money because you get bounties for just about everything and getting money is really hard and I was tired of being unable to go to into towns without getting instantly shot so I'd pay the bounty at the post office, which ended up quickly being where all my money was going. Because in spite of the fact that I have really high honor, f you get jumped by people and fight back YOU get wanted. Ot if you accidentally run over a person (whcih I've done in St Denis because they jump off the sidewalks in front of you) they you are wanted for murder and the bounty grows. Then the waves of bounty hunters begin hunting you which is actually kind of fun for a while but eventually I would drain the account I've been buildingup for hours of gameplay to buy down the bounty so I can go back into towns and boom! broke again.
So I money glithched it. Now I am rich but still don't have a big satchel because I need a rabbit pelt and it won't stop raining!
It sounds like all of these systems are just not balanced that well. How often do you have to eat? Does the game make you eat three meals a day? And what about the whole taking a bath thing? Does that have to happen daily as well?
Played some more, it's weird but I'm not really enjoying it much. Controls are just kinda tedious, everything feels so sluggish and a bit confusing. Nothing I can remember from RDR1 or GTA games. Horse riding is no fun either somehow. I'm really surprised, not in a million years did I think this wasn't going to be a blast.
I don't see any obvious consequences of not eating except it tells you that you are underweight. I think there is a "health core" which is like a reserve tank for health that gets depleted when you are hungry but that's not obvious until you are in a fight and you die quickly. Bathing I think is a matter of choice, NPCs will say you stink but you can ignore them. In the end you don't have to do a lot of this stuff but gun cleaning is essential because your guns do lose power and accuracy if you don't keep them clean. The constant bounties and the slow forced walks are rough though. I did one mission where you find a guy in the woods who's lost. He needs to get back to town. Sure, okay. But he refused to get on my horse so I had to slooooooooowly lead his slow butt from the middle of nowhere to the town while he talked about how sad he was to get lost. I thought "there better be a good payoff for this" after the mission took 5 excrutiating minutes but no, he just said thanks and walked away. That's when I think the game just trolls us at times.
I dont know how they screwed this one up. They literally couldve copy and pasted the gameplay with a new map, new scenarios, a scattering of new mechanics and they wouldve had it in the bag. All these survival things that you have to do in number 2 sounds like they were just trying to copy gameplay trends without fully fleshing things out. This is another example of a publisher screwing up a guaranteed hit. SWBF2 anyone???
Yah. I have no idea how they justified something like that. Filler? Maybe the team that did this game was just not that experienced and took on more than they could chew... OR.... is this yet another example of too much time and effort going into the graphics with the gameplay suffering the greatest hit?
Is the fishing mini game fun at least?
Yeah I haven't even gotten to the survival things yet. But simple stuff like having to skin an animal, then picking up the pelt, walking to my horse and putting the pelt on it. It just doesn't feel right, it's all kinda slow. Then I accidently run my horse into a tree, the horse falls, I get thrown off, and the pelt too. It's all realistic but is it fun?
Or I killed that legendary bear and had no clue what to do with the pelt. Had to go google and found I need a specific guy to make it into special gear. Rode across the map where the guy is, then stood in front of him with the pelt on my shoulders and I could see gear in the menu that needs the pelt but it's grayed out. I drop the pelt, try again. Nothing. I google again and find out I need to first sell the pelt to the guy, and that once sold this ingredient is now available forever. I sort of stumbled over the realism of the game and thought one pelt equals on piece of gear. Not to mention I then accidently shot the guy, because talking to someone you can't just walk up and press X or something, you have to first target them with L2 (same as a gun), and then there's a selection of buttons like buy or sell. Awfully easy to then grace the R2 button and shoot the person right in the chest. So then I wanted to restart from last checkpoint, found no such option in the UI. Waited until the law came and shot me dead, then I got to restart from last checkpoint.
I don't know... something just doesn't feel right.