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How do you link Boots / gloves bones with feet / fingers bones?

gummby8gummby8 Posts: 26
in The Commons

I have an gen 8 model and some gen 3 clothing. I followed the steps to properly parent and fit the gen 3 clothes to the model, but the hands and feet of the clothes dont animate with teh hands and feet of the model. 

 

So when the model makes a fist, the gloves move with the wrist, but the fingers stay staic, so the models fingers clip through the gloves. Same things when the model walks, the boots stay static and the feet clip through. 

Is there a way I can link the glove bones to the bones of the hands?

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 109,502

    What did properly parenting and fitting amount to? You can't use the edit Scene ID trick with items that have mutliple bones that must follow the base figure, you have to rerig the mdoel - most simply by using AutoFit on the unmodified Geensis 3 clothing.

  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    Have you tried just having G8 selected when you load the G3 gloves and chosing G3 in the drop down in the box that pops up?  It's rarely 100% perfect but quite often good enough.

  • gummby8gummby8 Posts: 26
    Fisty said:

    Have you tried just having G8 selected when you load the G3 gloves and chosing G3 in the drop down in the box that pops up?  It's rarely 100% perfect but quite often good enough.

     

    Richard Haseltine said:

    What did properly parenting and fitting amount to? You can't use the edit Scene ID trick with items that have mutliple bones that must follow the base figure, you have to rerig the mdoel - most simply by using AutoFit on the unmodified Geensis 3 clothing.

     

    Yes I have tried just fitting it, but the gloves float off the arms at a wird angle, the boots don't do anything, and neither the boots not the fingerrs on teh gloves link up with the feet or fingers in the hands. When posed they jut stay static.

    Hence why I am looking for a way to link the rotations of the hand/feet bones to the hand/feet bones of the gloves and boots

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 109,502
    gummby8 said:
    Fisty said:

    Have you tried just having G8 selected when you load the G3 gloves and chosing G3 in the drop down in the box that pops up?  It's rarely 100% perfect but quite often good enough.

     

    Richard Haseltine said:

    What did properly parenting and fitting amount to? You can't use the edit Scene ID trick with items that have mutliple bones that must follow the base figure, you have to rerig the mdoel - most simply by using AutoFit on the unmodified Geensis 3 clothing.

     

    Yes I have tried just fitting it, but the gloves float off the arms at a wird angle, the boots don't do anything, and neither the boots not the fingerrs on teh gloves link up with the feet or fingers in the hands. When posed they jut stay static.

    Hence why I am looking for a way to link the rotations of the hand/feet bones to the hand/feet bones of the gloves and boots

    Which version of DS is this? That looks as if it may be an older version that doesn't support pose data in AutoFit, so the A-pose isn't being adjusted for.

  • gummby8gummby8 Posts: 26
    Richard Haseltine said:
    gummby8 said:
    Fisty said:
    Which version of DS is this? That looks as if it may be an older version that doesn't support pose data in AutoFit, so the A-pose isn't being adjusted for.

    Daz Studio 4.1

    I figured out hot to get the gloves and boots to fit First I have to edit the Scene Identification of the gloves to fit to Gen 8 Female, then fit them to the character. But again the fingers of the gloves are not linked to the fingers of the figure. 

    What do I need to do to link the rotations of the figure finger bones to the rotations of the glove finger bones?

  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,548
    gummby8 said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    gummby8 said:
    Fisty said:
    Which version of DS is this? That looks as if it may be an older version that doesn't support pose data in AutoFit, so the A-pose isn't being adjusted for.

    Daz Studio 4.1

    I figured out hot to get the gloves and boots to fit First I have to edit the Scene Identification of the gloves to fit to Gen 8 Female, then fit them to the character. But again the fingers of the gloves are not linked to the fingers of the figure. 

    What do I need to do to link the rotations of the figure finger bones to the rotations of the glove finger bones?

    You are mixing up two different routes to fit old clothing to G8F. Either do this:

    -Fit to, select G3F as the source figure and "gloves" or "full body" as the clothing type. DO NOT edit scene ID info on gloves first.

    Or this:

    -Pose G8F like G3F. Load gloves without fitting to. Edit scene ID info on gloves. Select G8F, then gloves, then the transfer rigging option (it's part of the same menu where you found scene ID, but under rigging). NOW fit to.

    The hovering gloves sounds like you are trying to use the second method without posing her to match G3F first.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 109,502
    gummby8 said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    gummby8 said:
    Fisty said:
    Which version of DS is this? That looks as if it may be an older version that doesn't support pose data in AutoFit, so the A-pose isn't being adjusted for.

    Daz Studio 4.1

    I assume you mean 4.10.x.x, in which case my suggestion wouldn't be the issue.

  • gummby8gummby8 Posts: 26
    edited July 2018
    Odaa said:
    gummby8 said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    gummby8 said:
    Fisty said:
    Which version of DS is this? That looks as if it may be an older version that doesn't support pose data in AutoFit, so the A-pose isn't being adjusted for.

    Daz Studio 4.1

    I figured out hot to get the gloves and boots to fit First I have to edit the Scene Identification of the gloves to fit to Gen 8 Female, then fit them to the character. But again the fingers of the gloves are not linked to the fingers of the figure. 

    What do I need to do to link the rotations of the figure finger bones to the rotations of the glove finger bones?

    You are mixing up two different routes to fit old clothing to G8F. Either do this:

    -Fit to, select G3F as the source figure and "gloves" or "full body" as the clothing type. DO NOT edit scene ID info on gloves first.

    Or this:

    -Pose G8F like G3F. Load gloves without fitting to. Edit scene ID info on gloves. Select G8F, then gloves, then the transfer rigging option (it's part of the same menu where you found scene ID, but under rigging). NOW fit to.

    The hovering gloves sounds like you are trying to use the second method without posing her to match G3F first.

     

    Richard Haseltine said:
    gummby8 said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    gummby8 said:
    Fisty said:
    Which version of DS is this? That looks as if it may be an older version that doesn't support pose data in AutoFit, so the A-pose isn't being adjusted for.

    Daz Studio 4.1

    I assume you mean 4.10.x.x, in which case my suggestion wouldn't be the issue.

    Ok

    I fixed the floating gloves, they are fitted, but the real problem still remains

    How do I link the bones of the figures fingers to the bones of the gloves?

    I can put hte figure into a pose and the gloves move with the hands and everyhitng, but the fingers just stay static, they do not mimic the fingers of the figure. 

    Post edited by gummby8 on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,590

    Are the gloves rigged? Do they have finger bones?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 109,502

    Do the fingers line up withe the fingers of the human? If not they wom't have rreceived the rigging - AutoFit is not that sophisticated. How much needs to match the human rigging to make them useful?

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,851
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Do the fingers line up withe the fingers of the human? If not they wom't have rreceived the rigging - AutoFit is not that sophisticated. How much needs to match the human rigging to make them useful?

    Going off the image posted, it looks like the gloves are 10 times the size of the hands which could have something to do with the issue.

  • JazzyBearJazzyBear Posts: 805

    Try a quick test on G3 as well to see if the hand and finger poses work the gloves. I think that item might have poses on the GLOVES not the figure.

     

  • gummby8gummby8 Posts: 26
    edited July 2018
    barbult said:

    Are the gloves rigged? Do they have finger bones?

    Yes the gloves have bones and 1 simple pose slider, which makes a fist. 

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Do the fingers line up withe the fingers of the human? If not they wom't have rreceived the rigging - AutoFit is not that sophisticated. How much needs to match the human rigging to make them useful?

    No they do not line up, hence the issue. 

    All I want to do, is link the rotations of the bones on the fingers of the figure, to the rotations of the bones on the gloves, even if I have to link each bone rotation individualy.  

    At the end of the day this is what I would like to see happen.

    If the "Index finger 1" bone rotates 30 degrees on the X axis, the linked rotation on the gloves "Index Finger 1" bone will also rotate 30 degrees on the X axis. 

    Is there a way to do that? And if so , how?

    Post edited by gummby8 on
  • zombietaggerungzombietaggerung Posts: 3,880

    Considering the size of the gloves, I'd just hide the figures finger bones and use the glove fingers for poses.

  • gummby8gummby8 Posts: 26
    zombietaggerung said:

     use the glove fingers for poses.

    That is what I have been trying to do this whole thread. How do you link the rotations of the figures poses to the bones of the gloves?

  • gummby8gummby8 Posts: 26
    zombietaggerung said:

     use the glove fingers for poses.

    That is what I have been trying to do this whole thread. How do you link the rotations of the figures poses to the bones of the gloves?

  • zombietaggerungzombietaggerung Posts: 3,880
    gummby8 said:
    zombietaggerung said:

     use the glove fingers for poses.

    That is what I have been trying to do this whole thread. How do you link the rotations of the figures poses to the bones of the gloves?

    You don't. You select the gloves in the scene tab and then select the finger bones of the gloves and pose them as you want. Ignore the human figure's finger bones. Considering how large the gloves are the human figures's hands are probably buried inside the gloves and have no bearing on how the glove's fingers move.

  • gummby8gummby8 Posts: 26
    zombietaggerung said:
    gummby8 said:
    zombietaggerung said:

     use the glove fingers for poses.

    That is what I have been trying to do this whole thread. How do you link the rotations of the figures poses to the bones of the gloves?

    You don't. You select the gloves in the scene tab and then select the finger bones of the gloves and pose them as you want. Ignore the human figure's finger bones. Considering how large the gloves are the human figures's hands are probably buried inside the gloves and have no bearing on how the glove's fingers move.

    You are saying there is no way to make 2 bones from 2 seperate objects rotate at the same time?

    This shouldn't be this difficult, all I want is 1 bone to mimic the same rotations of another bone. 

  • zombietaggerungzombietaggerung Posts: 3,880
    gummby8 said:
    zombietaggerung said:
    gummby8 said:
    zombietaggerung said:

     use the glove fingers for poses.

    That is what I have been trying to do this whole thread. How do you link the rotations of the figures poses to the bones of the gloves?

    You don't. You select the gloves in the scene tab and then select the finger bones of the gloves and pose them as you want. Ignore the human figure's finger bones. Considering how large the gloves are the human figures's hands are probably buried inside the gloves and have no bearing on how the glove's fingers move.

    You are saying there is no way to make 2 bones from 2 seperate objects rotate at the same time?

    This shouldn't be this difficult, all I want is 1 bone to mimic the same rotations of another bone. 

    Sure that's possible, but only if the second object/figure lines up with the first object/figure. For something so drastically differently sized, they likely won't. It's a limitation of the program.

  • gummby8gummby8 Posts: 26
    edited July 2018

    Maybe I need more pictures to explain this

     

    I moved the glove off the hand so you can see the figures hand and the glove at the same time. Normally the figures hand is hidden.

    Before

     

    After

     

    Both the figures thumb and the glove thumb moved together when I have them both selected. and play with the slider

    Now lets try a pose

     

    As you can see the fingers of the figure are curved up, but the fingers of the glove have not moved. The glove moved positions just fine but the finger bones are not linked to the finger bones of the figure

     

    All I want to do, is link the rotations of the finger bones of the figure to the finger bones of the gloves.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 109,502

    yes, that's ERC (linking one proeprty to another as a controller). The prblem is that AutoFit is going to remove the original bones from the gloves. I suspect you will need to load two copies of the gloves, hide one hand of each, parent each glove to a hand  -that gives a base set-up. The enxt bit is more tiresome, and may need soem tweaking, but open the Window>Panes(Tabs)>Property Hierarchy and finmd the gloves, then expand to get down to the bone for a finger, under that the first rotation, and under that Controllers>1st Stage. In the parameters pane right-click and out it in Edit Mode, then with the base figure selected find the matching finger bone and drag its rotation slider over onto the 1st stage line under the glove controller; that should link that particular bend on that finger (check to be sure). Now you just need tor epeat for all the other transforms on all the other fingers :(

  • gummby8gummby8 Posts: 26
    edited July 2018
    Richard Haseltine said:

    yes, that's ERC (linking one proeprty to another as a controller). The prblem is that AutoFit is going to remove the original bones from the gloves. I suspect you will need to load two copies of the gloves, hide one hand of each, parent each glove to a hand  -that gives a base set-up. The enxt bit is more tiresome, and may need soem tweaking, but open the Window>Panes(Tabs)>Property Hierarchy and finmd the gloves, then expand to get down to the bone for a finger, under that the first rotation, and under that Controllers>1st Stage. In the parameters pane right-click and out it in Edit Mode, then with the base figure selected find the matching finger bone and drag its rotation slider over onto the 1st stage line under the glove controller; that should link that particular bend on that finger (check to be sure). Now you just need tor epeat for all the other transforms on all the other fingers :(

    I think that did it

    I took the following and drug it down to....

    Here....

     

    Now when I mess with teh sliders on just the hand the one linked bone also moves, and it appears to carry over in poses as well.

    Now I have to see if all this carries over when I export to unity...or all is for nothing :(
    Maybe I should have seen if there was a way to link bones in unity instead.......hmmm

     

     

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 109,502

    Yeah, I think export may be an issue - sorry, I hadn't thought about that.

  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 983

    I would first make shure that the gloves and boots can be fitted to the Genesis 8 figure before I would try to export something to unity. As far as I know there is no conforming function within unity - you would need to write a script or buy one that can do something like this if there is one.

    Since this should be a mechanical exoskeleton like glove, I was thinking about to have a set of bones of the Genesis 8 forearm, hand and fingers placed inside the gloves and also the original set of bones to move the mechanical hand and fingers. I don't know how these items conform to the genesis 3 figures but I think the big issue here are the different bone names - eg. Genesis 8: Left Thumb 1 and Mega Left Hand: Thumb 1.

    In one of the sceenshots it looks like you have just parented the "Mega Left Hand" figure to the genesis hand. To have real conforming gloves and boots that can be fitted to genesis 8 the cloth items need at least some bones named and placed the same like the genesis 8 bones.

    If you just parent the gloves and do the ERC Freeze linking like this I bet the ERC links would be lost if you restart DazStudio and load the scene again. You can only do ERC links with the parameters of the same figure. I think due to prevent some issues with crosstalk it is not allowed. It may look like its working in first place but these links don't get saved with the scene file.

    I would try the following:

    1. Fix the default pose of the gloves and boots to fit to Genesis 8

    • Zero the genesis figure
    • maybe parent, place, rotate and scale the gloves and boots until you think they fit to the genesis 8 figures default pose
    • export OBJs of the gloves and boots individualy (set Resolution to Base - hide all other items in the scene - check Ignore Invisible in the export OBJ options)
    • Zero all gloves and boots
    • start MorphLoaderPro and load all OBJs as morphs to the items - dial all morphs to 100%
    • open the Joint Editor - use Adjust Rigging to Shape then Memeorize Rigging (now the bones positions should be fixed)
    • find the Update Base Geometry action in the edit menu and choose the exported OBJ from before to have the items placement by default fit to the genesis 8 default pose
    • the morphs from before are no longer needed you can delete them now or dial them to negative -100% to reverse to original shape

    2. Create a conforming figure with the Transfer Utility

    • open the Transfer Utility Source: Genesis 8 Female Target: Mega Left Hand - General Options: only select Weight Maps - check Remove Unused Bones and Merge Hierarchies
    • see if you get all the bones of the Genesis 8 left arm transfered to the left glove in the Joint Editor and if they don't have any weight maps assigned - we don't need them - if so you can continue to repeat this with the other items
    • open the Joint Editor - select the Mega Left Hand Arm bone and use the Reparent Bone action to parent the whole original genesis 3 rigging to the transfered genesis 8 Left Forearm bone that will follow the genesis 8 rigging if conformed
    • select the glove item open the Scene Identification dialogue and change the Prefered Base to Genesis 8 Female
    • fit the Mega Left Hand glove figure to genesis 8 and test if it conforms - it should follow the poses of the forearm

    3. Create the ERC links between the hand and finger joint rotations

    • open the Parameters and the Property Hierarchy pane side by side - right click the Parameters pane and switch to Edit mode
    • for example select the Mega Left Hand Thumb 1 bone and right-click the xRotate property in the Parameters pane - then select Show in Property Hierarchy
    • select the Left Thumb xRotate property (transfered genesis 8 thumb bone) and drag & drop it to the Property Hierarchy pane xRotate Mega Left Hand Thumb 1 - SubComponent 1st Stage

    I'm not shure what exactly will happen in step 2 if you use the Transfer Utility - the idea is to keep the original genesis 3 rigging and add the genesis 8 rigging of the left arm to the gloves. The genesis 8 left arm bones should have no weightmaps and they are there only to conform / fit the gloves.

    I think this is an interesting project and I hope my suggestions can help even though this is pure guesswork.

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