Graphic Novel Shaders and Lights
ScarletX1969
Posts: 587
I'm about to start on a OGN and was wondering if this shader and light pack really was something good to get. I mean, it's selling point is that it's for graphic novels, right? Here my thing...the promos. With the shading and lighting, everything looks metallic. Is that what the end result really looks like or is this strictly default stuff and you would have to seriously play with it?
I'm not feeling the metallic look, so I'm hoping this isn't how everything will look once you've set up.
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Comments
I haven’t purchased it but it looks like it achieves its effect partially through washing out the render with colored light. Novel idea. The promos look like limited special effect usage for me but the black and white ones suggest extended potential. But if it IS based on colored light, reflectivity (metallicity) is definitely going to be a dominating factor...
I've been waiting for the commercial thread to go up (as mentioned in the promo). I'm interested in seeing more about the black and white effects too.
The promos are a mixed bag to me. Some look great others just look like a combination of shiny metal and darkness. It’s hard to say whether I like it or not.
Yes, I'm also very much on the fence about this product at the moment. I'm usually buying fx-shader, and I think the idea behind it is great, but the promos currently put this in the "no buy" section, unfortunately.
I also hope that the commercial thread will literally "put some light" into it.
https://www.daz3d.com/graphic-novel-shaders-and-lights
I had a bunch of thoughts, but I hesitate to share them. I never want to point an exact product downward.
My assessment...
CONS
a) It's an effect (in most promos) that's done in several ways, using many of the filters everyone mentions as "How to get a comic book look?"
b) I never liked that look- even when I used it myself. In my mind, it looks old school 3D-comics from Poser and earliest Daz.
c) It's a lot of work to set that up- select this, select that....shade and ....and set...and...whereas the alternate methods, is render and then apply filter.....
d) plus it doesn't look too, too manageable for very large sets or far vistas.
PROS
a) For some of the art, it looks like an effect I would do for a chapter break or cover, but not for every page. Maybe even an illustrated novel with only a few images to reinforce the film-noir effect.
b) Daz-Studio purists can say they did it all in Daz = "No postwork was done"
c) Someone will probably buy this and experiment and find a dazzling new or unexpected usage for this light set up.
d) As props and HDRI pieces, there's a lot of value for the raw components, alone.
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This image and the main promo pics has me interested.
I definitely want more lighting products with interesting light set ups. Instead of asking for another light set, this might fit the bill.
I just don't know if I'd be pushing the envelope and experimenting or just trying too hard to make something work...
The promo above give a bit the impression of a cell shading techniqe used to colour 2d comic and I guess that is what those light and shader setups are meant for. For some genres and styles that technique likes to apply complementary colours. Personally I'm not much of a fan of that extreme colouring and I have the feeling that it gets tiring to look at a complete story in that style but I thing I could work well when you use layers, with these shaders on the figures and the background done separately.
But now we're back to the 'a lot of work' problem. For all that, might was well do it in Photoshop.
I'm probably....going....to....get...it........
I dunno....maybe the lights, alone.
They remind me of a more detailed 'Jack Kirby' style. I don't need it but the superheroes done that way look like old-fashioned Kirby style in a way.
From the read me about black and white:
For a black and white scene:
Convert surfaces to GNS VeryLight preset and use preset labeled BnW on the rig.
I dunno. Looks like something I'd buy and never use. I'm going to wait for more info.
Commercial thread is up: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/263466/graphic-novel-shaders-and-lights-commercial#latest
After looking at the commercial thread, I think this is going to be a hard pass for me. I'm not feeling this "metallic" look. Maybe I will get it and play around with it much later, but I'm going to have to go elsewhere to achieve the look I want, I believe. :)
Very interesting to read all the feedback here. The product has been out for a while now, I'm still using the box rig for lighting & light blockers, still using the HDRIs. If anyone has questions let me know, I'm happy to answer.
While the product does look interesting, I find what it does makes a lot of the figures and background look too shiny and metallic looking.. A while back there was a really good product unfortunately it is no longer available from here that used the camera to do the work rather than relying on shaders..
I got it a day ago. I'd recommend that you don't go by the demo images alone on the store page. The bloom effect can be disabled so that you don't end up with glow artifacts in renders. Besides that, I believe there's a way in Daz3D to separate the bloom rendering from the final image by using canvases so that you can apply it during post and compositing but that's a whole other topic.
For the simplicity in setting up a graphic novel style rendering pipeline I'd say you can't beat the value. Keep in mind that you can't cookie cutter the process so that you can fly through a ton of scene renders. You'll be tweaking every scene, using your artistic talent for composition and lighting. I'd say its the best solution we've got so far. It would be nice to see a solution that operated like cel shading, applying the graphic novel rendering style during the render processing utilizing all of the output image channels (ie depth, camera/pixel incidence etc). A camera filter or something like that but we might be a bit of a ways from that until someone with advanced scripting knowledge writes a plugin that operates on the camera or during the render rather than during scene composition.
The advantage with GNS is that you can really tweak the final look of your output image during scene composition where as a camera filter would give you little room for art direction. I'd recommend this for certain. I'm a lot closer to achieving a quality graphic novel look than I was before without GNS. I'll try to pop in here every once and again and let you know about my progress. Consequently it appears that customizing the GNS rig (the box within which you render your subjects that determines the lighting attributes) is possible so you can literally build a library of your own presets for the GNS rig. You will however be tweaking you subject's material settings. So your graphic novel look pipeline is going to result in content that is only applicable to graphic novel renders and no reuseable under other circumstances.
One thing to note is that I'm finding it a bit difficult to get the right settings for rendering eyes. Eyes tend to show up darkened, either all dark or light without any sign of the cornea or alternately of the iris. That's a pretty important factor to overcome as the eyes are so intrinsic to story telling in an image.
I hope that helps. :-)
Can you show an example of one of your renders? I've purchased the product but have yet to try it. I'd love to see what can be achieved.