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I'm on the Sympatico Studios team. We do artistic promos but quite a few of us also do product testing and promos on the side for PAs we know. Check out our FB page and Elite Models. I think we are the only two promo groups. I may be wrong.
I do promo work. Feel free to PM me. Ah just saw the post above - I actually do Sympatico Promos as well. Anyway, if you are looking for store promos pm me.
For those of us not on Facebook, can you explain a little about what Sympatico Studios and Elite Models are?
Try this, barbult:
https://sympaticostudio.deviantart.com/aboutus/
And
https://elite-models-3d.deviantart.com/
Thanks SixDs.
I would personally want to see promo images done by the PA themselves
Why does it matter to you who did the promo images? I'm curious. I always like to see what other users can do with the product.
I actually prefer promo images by the PAs too although there is no way of knowing.
Thank goodness the PAs fall into the general category of ARTISTS. Artists ALWAYS balance the business and the Art so there will be items produced that THE ARTIST wants to make- damn sales.
So risks will be taken. AND it's a risky bid no matter what. You're balancing something people might want, might need, the OLDER version still being around- Daz deep discounts, Fast Grabs,,,etc....
Ideas that sound popular on paper and just because you "made a suggested item", doesn't mean you made it the way they wanted it made. Time, as stated is also a factor. By the time you get it into the store, the person has already made do another way.
Some items are use once and some are utilities that get used almost every time your fire up Daz Studio.
Sometimes a better item replaces the previous one you had in mind.
Some vendors SHOULD create products in a series. I always suggest variations to a theme. Some vendors listen to feedback like that and some don't.
Some don't like the word "more". Some have properties that all look the same.
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I do find it funny though - that the forum(s) is always suggested as the place to be/go, but then 1 day later - defined as ~ doesn't represent any kind of customer base and the PAs mostly don't use it.
Except, you really have no way of knowing if any of the promos were done by the PAs themselves, though, do you if they don't say they did. As long as they clearly demonstrate the product, it really shouldn't matter. There are PAs that are great at creating, but realize they suck at rendering, lighting, texturing, which is why you find people who are good at it and can help you present your product well or partner with you for the parts you don't do well.
Well i did say that, didn't I, that I have no way of knowing if the PA made the promo image, but it still doesn't change that I prefer promo images by the PAs that made the product. And for some products it's pretty clear the PA made the promos.
A PA that doesn't care to use their own products well I just don't know about that. And how on earth can a PA made a high quality and thoroughly tested product and manage to even finish the product cycle without having made a thorough set of renders in different rendering setups to test their product? Let's see, I am now a PA, "Oh, I just need to make a few morphs and texture sets here, no need to render them from many different angles and with light(s) at many different angles to see that the work is correct from all angles."
C'mon nonesuch00, are you being mean?
Promo- Art is that, the word ART. Just because I can create a pose and/or building set or WHATEVER, doesn't mean I have the matching artistic eye to create a wonderful scene.
Very few promo images are JUST THE PRODUCT. They have all sorts of other products supporting it....
Aside from the time involved, or interest - there's a focus interest. I bet most PAs would rather start working on their next product than spend an extra week or two making pretty renders.
And renders themselves, you make many and only use the best ones.
That's a serious allotment of resources.
On the other hand, a PA who is willing to involve a third party in creating promos because he/she wants to put out a great product but knows his/her limitations could be just as diligent in involving others as testers.
As for the value of the suggestions forum, maybe a request for something that would never make a standalone product (e.g. a screwdriver, because I can't think of anything else right now!) might be something that could be easily incorporated as a prop feature in an existing idea and could end up being what half the owners bought it for.
The problem with a PA using a company to do the promo renders means that the vendor and therfore the customer has no idea about whats used to create the art, how it was done if the artist used therir own settings changed something, what they used to render the image, I also have a bit of a dislike for vendors that use Sympatico studios as they have a habit of spamming galleries.
I'm considered a pretty good artist in my profession which has included working at Disney, but I will be the first to say that if I have a render that looks good it was only after toiling for hours or a big fluke since I still don't get how to work with lights in 3D since they often don't light as I expect or want. I am always unhappy with my renders which is why, in my art, if I render, I postwork it like crazy. There have been plenty of products that were really cool, but that the artist did not create renders that showed off the product at its best. It's not a bad thing for artists to know their limitations. Many of us keep trying to learn and I am far better at renders than when I first started, but way less good than other PAs that I aspire to render like.
There's a big difference between test renders and promo images....
Personally I really enjoy making promos. Usually the main promo (or one of the main promos) is what I pictured when I first concepted the product in the first place.
I'll also admit, I've had test promos that ended up going into the final promos... never the artistic ones as those take much more work, but in the ones that show off the product in various angles with basic lighting. My test promos also serve double duty as they'll end up becoming icons in the folders. Having said that though, I think my definition of "test promo" is probably quite different than other's.
Does anyone know if there is still a backlog on submissions? I submitted something 2 weeks ago, got an almost immediate response saying it was an interesting concept, and that they wanted more info on who I am and what my future plans are etc and that was the last I heard.
one thing i've learned, freelancing:
yeses pretty much always take longer than nos.
if daz got back to you quickly and requested more info from you, then you've successfully cleared the first great hurdle in the cold-and-unsolicited submission process. you're out of what book people call 'the slushpile'. someone's interested in you and what you're doing, sees potential there, and is actually spending real time and effort to create a dialogue with you. and that is awesome. super encouraging. on a good track.
i'd suggest giving them a month to respond to whatever new material you sent them in response to their interest. and if you haven't heard anything back by then, just touch base and follow up. be cool and low-key about it. and if you've been working on anything that you think they might find interesting during that silent month, tack a little note and maybe some examples of your new (fresh!) work for them to check out. this will help them key into your future plans (which is something they've already said they're interested in), and also let them know that you're someone who's really into working.
and you never know. could be that they have an even more positive response to whatever it is you're doing now than they had to your initial submission.
in my experience, it's a very good thing to just take the hope and excitement and energy you get from an initial positive response...and just put your head back down, and put that energy back into your work. don't just hold your breath and wait. it'll wear you out. :)
good luck!
j
Thank you for your encouragement and words of wisdom. As someone who's also submitted a few books to publishers, I'm unfortunately all too familiar with how long and agonising the process can be at times. You're right, I've got another 3 projects that are almost 80% complete, so I must just keep hammering away at them.
There are multiple skilsets required to become a successful PA.
You have to come up with cool concepts.
You have to technically deliver those cool concepts in the program and they have to work flawlessly.
You have to repeat that numerous times, because it is well established that PAs that churn out hundreds of products make more money for themselves and DAZ.
Hence the questions.
If you need to learn a bit about promo images and why some work:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/26232/art-of-the-promo/p1
Because the quickest way to get a response is with exceptionally good promos.
Well I only got an automated response to say they'd got my submission, and that was a month ago - guess that's a 'no' then.
In the meantime I've started 3 new projects - only 2 of which are biting off too much to chew again LOL.
Thanks FirstBastion for your input. Looking through that thread you posted I just realise once again how much crazy talent there is in this store.
Im with you there Silent Winter. I also tend to bite off way more than I can chew, and usually have 2 or 3 projects going at a time. Best of luck, and hopefully we see each other on the other side.
I'd have to second looking through the thread FirstBastion posted,it's filled with great examples of what Daz like to see in promo artwork.
When getting the attention of Daz you almost want to disregard the content your making and realize your first and foremost selling a promo image ,to Daz as well as to the customer base.Promo is king!,if your submitting some killer artwork then Daz will bend over backwards to get back to you.and that doesn't mean a promo that shows every angle of what your selling,or every possible use,or every possible material option..it just means a promo that makes them go 'Wow!'
And if at first you fail to get the attention of Daz then use that as fuel to go harder,to keep improving and aim to make them something they just cannot refuse.
Something that helped me a lot when starting out was I never looked at the Daz store to see what the bar was set at,I was looking at other online galleries unrelated to Poser and Daz content,I'd suggest people today look at what's trending at Artstation,aim well beyond the quality level you see in the 3d content stores and I'm sure they will be knocking down your door.
Cheers
Stefan
Great advice, Stefan! It makes sense. If DAZ folks go "Wow!", and they do know what sells and have seen it all, more customers will be impressed and buy.
Well that explains why QA has been slacking off lately, they are looking at the promos and not the product, go figure.
Some of the great artists here will do some promos for you in exchange for the product. You can make a post about it or ask certain artists who's work you particularly like. I've been blessed enough to have a couple of great artists who are friends who help me by doing a few promo images to go along with my products. But I'm sure if you poke around (and maybe even offer some monetary compensation) you can get some nice artistic promo images to accompany your own promo art. Truth be told though, you're likely going to need to do like 90% of the promo art yourself.
Not really. Yes, they should do better, but at the same time, they should also have a fairly good product when they start working with it to begin with.
To be fair QA is looking at the content,but at that early stage of just getting your foot in the door your dealing with the review team