WIP thread New Users Contest - June 2013
Chohole
Posts: 33,604
New User's Contest - June 2013
Sponsored by DAZ 3D and FeralFey
Are you new to the 3D World? Are you at the beginning stages of learning 3D rendering? Have you been around for a little bit but feel you could benefit from some feedback or instruction? Have you been around awhile and would like to help other members start their creative journey? Well then come and join the fun as we host our newest contest...
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"Reaction and Interaction"
This month’s contest is designed to help you when posing 2 figures in a scene and have them reacting with each other
This may sound a simple concept, but it can be difficult to get a believable interaction between 2 (or more) figures. You need to take into consideration not only the way the figures are placed physically and how they are posed, but also to remember things like body language and eye contact.
Intent: A render with two figures interacting with each other.
THis can be two human figures or two animal or non human figures, or even one of each, the choice is yours, as is the choice of how they are reacting, it can be a friendly scene, an action scene, a love scene (within TOS limits of course) or even a fight scene:- whatever takes your fancy.
For a list of the current contest rules, please see this thread :Contest Rules
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For those veterans of the forums that would like to help, because this contest is designed for the beginner to learn from, we will be randomly selecting posts offering helpful tips and/or critiques to receive a special voucher as well so whether you are a seasoned artist or an aspiring one, there is fun for everyone!
We would like to thank FeralFey who has graciously decided to sponsor this month’s contest They will be awarding a special prize to the winners of this month’s contest. To view some of FeralFey's items please see their store front here
Closing Date: June 30th 2013
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Comments
In case we need it
Hope I'm not being presumptuous by adding a tip here- but since we're talking new users, many have not put two people in a scene before so here's how-
If you already have a figure in the scene, HAVE IT SELECTED IN THE SCENE TAB, then you just select your next figure (say Genesis) from Smart Content or Content Library, click as usual to add to the scene, then a popup will ask if you want to replace or
"Add New Figure To Scene." Voila! (And there's threads on how to add a pre-posed /saved person into the scene, and not a World Center- we should probably list that too. Anyone got that thread/link?)
That is for DS of course, works differently in Poser
Is there a way to load the second person without having it pop up in the middle of the character you already have in the scene?
Yes- Jaderail posted how to deselect World Center in a thread- I have it in my Art Studio thread somewhere, I'll see if I can find it. You can bring the person in from another scene at the location they were at in the scene. (Great for bringing in all the layers for a final render, if I recall correctly, putting them all together.)
I might just want to pop in on this one.. Just have to cook up and consider stuff :) Sounds like a fun one!
Here it is:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/20111/
EDIT: This has to do with World Center and preset poses, so hopefully will be the same approach when adding a second figure?
If you go to my art studio thread, last week I put a link to a post where I am going through all 28 pages and collecting the links in one post. I use my thread for easy reference too!
OK, here is my first one. The title is "The nerd gets lucky" and in the words of the great Dr Sheldon Cooper. "Let's chalk one up for alcohol and poor judgement."
I was playing around with this setup last month and made a few changes. It figure it works for this months theme too, so any suggestions for improvement are appreciated.
Well, you KNOW I love this combo! Here's my first impressions:
The bars across the ceiling caught my attention- it's competing with the horse's head. Do you know how to do depth of field? I'd fuzzy that back part out. Would really focus on the horse.
I love the fill light on the right that illuminates the neck- nice touch!
The other thing I would like is to see a bit more of the cat's face, even though the horse is the main dude (or dudette) Perhaps rotating a bit to more of the top view- just slightly. I love the strip of light going down the cat's paw!
EDIT: "going" not gioing!
The One Novica pointed to earlier is how to use a Pose that MOVES the figure when applied. I turn that off because I wish my figure to stay where I put it and not where the Pose thinks it should be.
Another try at it. Any suggestions?
Something I fiddled together about a month ago (but wasn't posted anywhere else, so I believe it's okay to use this as an entry), but that I want to work on a little more anyway.
Yes, they are interacting, even if he is trying to ignore her. (Yes, the female character is Amber, again ;) ) That's interaction too, isn't it?
So.. suggestions? Apart from making that tree ask for a little less attention and maaaaybe fiddle a bit more with the light.
Poppin' in with this link to Power Pose. I didn't know it existed and it sounds really neat. (Comes with DAZ, is not a purchase.) You click on dots (parts of the figure) to pose!
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/23142/#341073
Let me start out by expressing what I'm thinking when I post-
I'm hesitant to make suggestions as it's only what I would try, and my style is going to be expressed, not what is "right" or "wrong." There were probably a lot of people thinking "Don't change it!" for the first one, so please keep in mind if you like something the way it is, leave it! I love your openness to try things! I just want to ensure you (and everyone else) are comfortable saying "Nah, like it the way it is, but thanks!"
Okay, here we go. Regarding the new horse and kitty:
IMO, MUCH better! Let me tell you something that gave me a chuckle- and it occurs rather frequently. Whenever you do a scene, take breaks, walk away, come back up to your screen and see what your first impression is. An innocent placement may give a funny (or wrong) impression. When I saw the horse in the first picture, I couldn't figure out (other than the ceiling pulling my eye) what seemed "off." Well...
With the cat's foot (nice and bright white) where it was, it made your horse look like he had a big white smile! That foot ended up where it should be (that's where the cat would be kickin'!) but from your original angle, at first glance it seemed the horse had nice the mouth open and his toofers on display, lol! Artists tend to see what they have created AS THEY WANT IT TO BE, not what is shown. (One thread, the woman was grabbing her chest! We all had to smile about that.)
Let's start with what I really like in the second one-
That cat's tail! You can see it is in full action, compared to the first one. Cats speak through their tails (I know- we have eight of them!) So this really got the "Hey, I'm down here!" attitude going.
You captured the gentleness of the huge animal, he's obviously thinking, "Seriously?"
Here's some things to take a peek at-
And help me out- is there one or two spotlights from the left? (or a point?) Is this correct- Your light source is somewhat low coming from the left or middle, It's hitting the bales of hay and also illuminates the cat's face. (Nice!) The light hitting the hay is necessary because the cat is dark-
Here's what I would experiment with (not necessarily change, but if I were putzin' around) If you have the hay and horse lit by the same light, I would separate them. Soften that hay one up perhaps (try a peach, that does great things with golden hay!) (255/195/169) or (255/202/181) and try perhaps as low as 8%. You might want to make these even whiter than the peachy provided. That will get a glow going on the hay. Here's why I would separate them- Looking at your sky, I chose peach. It ties it in without being a light source per se if it works out with being a softer glow.
Next, looking at the sky, the bluish gray. I like the color of the spotlight, that ties in with the sky nicely. What strikes me though, is it really stands out as a spotlight. If that is what you wanted, then that is the impression I get. It's a nice style! If you want a less spotlight-y effect, increase your spread angle slightly. (I'm assuming a spotlight?) EDIT: The reason I would separate the two lights (if it's two) is so you can adjust the light on the horse without impacting the hay.
Also, for that eye, which is dull, go into Surfaces and LOWER the glossy setting (it's the opposite of what it seems, higher setting is less glossy) and for me, lowering the Diffuse too.
Last, I'd zoom in more and get lower... I know you're avoiding the ceiling (I think that made a BIG difference, just my opinion) I am curious- if we want to experiment and get a mixture of the first one's point of view (more from being the cat) and this one (a bystanders point of view) can you do a quickie and bring down your camera (keeping this lighting and location of the camera) and tilt slightly up? In other words, what would this look like if we shot this from the lower left, like we are a bit out from the bales of hay (not from behind the cat, like your first one) but as if we are ALMOST down on the cat's level. See if what that would do :) Your focus is the horse and cat touching, perhaps too much of the horse's body is in play, so are you up for a bit of zooming in, and getting lower from the camera's view- like your first one? What do you think?
You captured the mood quite well- looks like she has one "Not gonna have it!" guy to contend with!
Again, just my opinion/style- I focus on the eyes a lot, and would probably have them illuminated more.
Some things to mull over/ disregard if not appealing to you-
Your hand pose is one of the many ways to reach for someone, and I like the way she is reaching out for him. It is tentative, her hand is somewhat limp. Now again, this would just be a different style- If you wanted that to be a bit bolder, extend the fingers (uncurl) a bit and change the thumb and pointer.(Try it- reach out to touch something- the thumb and pointer finger are often straighter than the other three fingers, which are curled. There is a spread between the thumb and pointer, while the other fingers are more closely nestled.) Because her hand is already lifted so high, she would have had time already for her hand to form the "reach and touch" position if you like that style.)
One thing I think different lighting would help, is to me, there's too much warm/cool difference between the two characters. He seems too red (warm) to her cool colors. Too much saturation, particularly the face. I notice the arm on the right has the light hitting it and I think that skin color would also improve the facial color IMO. Again, what do you think?
Yes, that tree needs depth of field to fuzzy it out- totally agree.
Love your character, can see why you like to use her!
Cathie
Thank you for your insights, Novica :)
Yes, the guy (Jerutha, don't ask, he's half-elven and his mother came up with that) is nicknamed 'The Moody One' for a reason. She is reaching out, but just decided that she won't touch him, because that will only make him run away. Or so she thinks. It's basically the second before she lets her hand fall back to her side, that's why I posed the fingers the way I did. I do appreciate your suggestion and I agree on the reaching, just explaining my choice :)
I fully agree that the current lighting does indeed exaggerate the difference in their colouring. I'll fiddle with the (light) colours a bit so see what that does. There is of course, the thing that he has a rather darkish, tanned skin and warm brown hair and he's wearing brown on top of that. And she has fairer coloured skin, light hair and wears pale green.
Glad you like the character. These two (and a few other) haven been living in my head for some years and I developed an unhealthy level of attachment to them, lol. So I'm afraid they will keep popping up *looks innocent*
Edit to add current version. Did a bit of fiddling, especially with the lighting. A bit bright maybe now, but There are many ways to fix that. Now, I need to let it rest and come back later.
Personally, I like it better :) And I also like his name! I'm sure I've come up with names that make people scratch their heads, lol! Looking forward to seeing more of the fiddles, particularly softening the tree if you decide to pursue that. :)
Cathie
Alright, a few tiny changes :) I think I am almost done with it now. I decided his hands were not the way I wanted, so I changed them and I fiddled a little more with the lights. Nothing overly noticeable. Made the tree a bit more fuzzy, but I don't think I'll get it much more 'down' without losing focus on the characters.
Going to add a little detail, too, because my brain decided that that's a good idea, but leaving that for the final I think.
And now I'll stop hogging this thread :)
A first steps with the entry. Sorry about the baaaad lighting. At the moment all thoughts go into their poses.
Thank you for all your suggestions Novica. I appreciate different viewpoints and am a big believer in trying the suggestions of others. I think it's a mistake to not listen to the experience of others or to take critiques personally. I don't have a problem doing my own thing when I like something better either. ;)
I changed the spotlight to the peach color you suggested. I liked that and also widen the angle and that got me results I liked better. I wasn't happy with the other lights so dropped the direction lights I was using for fill and added on another spotlight to soften some shadows I didn't like and then used a uber environment light as fill.
The perspective I found difficult because things tended to line up with each other a lot because of the barn roof and it was difficult getting a pose I was happy enough with. I finally got it setup so that I could work in my third character the way I wanted. Let me know if you see him. :)
I really do appreciate your taking the time to give your input. Unfortunately, I have to get back to my real work and stop playing so I'll post this in the contest as well. Thank you again. If you have any more comments I would love to hear them.
Good example of two figures intereacting though..
For any newcomers can I suggest reading up on composition http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/12654/
LisaDM-
YESSS! What a difference. The cat really stands out, the tail was aligned against dark in the background, love your mouse (which proliferate barns! We have an opossum which frequents ours!) and I personally like the angle better, gets me more involved. It seems to capture the horse's subtle head movement, like he's moving his head toward us in response to the cat's playful poke. It's nice to see artists taking advantage of slight twists, bends, and turns to get the unique shot. Glad the peach worked out for you! One of my favorite colors. Next render (of whatever) see how you like mixing it with a pale blue spotlight- I love doing that. Congrats on your artwork!
My first idea didn't work out, so I started to just play around.. came up with this *smiles*
Treasure of my Heart
Him: "You are the treasure of my heart beautiful, will you be mine?"
Her: "I am already yours silly, I've always been"
Used:
Easy Enviroments - Greenlands, King of the Steppes, Lord of the Horses, Millenium Horse LE shaped with Alla's Arabian (freebie) and with LnL's Buckskin skin, Basic female, Basic male with Brennan skin, Jaguar Hair for genesis with velvety goodness applied to it.
Carola, very, very nice! You captured those sentiments perfectly!
Thank you Novica *smiles happily* going to do some finetuning on certain things that kinda ticks at me *laughs* The eye of the hrose for example
I think everyone's off to a great start.
nedkelly, I think the pose looks excellent. I'd concentrate now on other aspects of the image, as Szark suggested.
LisaDM, I liked the original, but your latest effort is much improved. Good job with the lighting, poses, and camera angle. The only thing that looks odd to me is the horse's eye...maybe it's just me, but it looks a bit dull.
mori_mann, you've done a great job conveying their emotions. I wonder how it would look if you change the direction of Jerutha's gaze a bit...either he's looking slightly back in her direction (which might say that he's a bit conflicted), or else away from her, up and to the left (which might suggest he's being extra stubborn, maybe even trying to convince himself "I'm not listening!"). His skin does look a little orange-ish to me...maybe that's how he's supposed to look (being a member of a fantasy race and all), but if you want him to look a bit more natural, you could try shifting the diffuse color in a slightly green direction (see this post).
Ilena52: good tension in this scene also. Definitely some lighting and texture issues, but overall this is a good start
carola.ottosson: good work with the poses, particularly the expressions. I think the lighting could use some work, though I like the warmth of it. Also might recommend playing around with the camera angle and general composition/framing.
Thanks Scott! If anything, his skin is supposed to have a slightly green hint to it. I thought most of the orange was due to the rather orangy lights, but changing them to more muted tones didn't help much. I will absolutely look into fiddling with the diffuse colour!
EDIT: Different angle. Going to stick with the first for the final one I think (and yes, this is a test, so didn't bother fuzzying out the tree for it).
Novica, Scott thank you both for your suggestions.
Scott - The eye had been bugging me, but I was having a lot of trouble figuring out why it was being so difficult. So, I looked directly at the texture file and saw that the eyelashes have been baked into the texture. Anyways, I'm not an expert on horse eyes, but I did my best to try to make new eyes using the existing eye texture mixed with eye textures from another model. Let me know what you think.
I also played around with filters in Photoshop if you have any comments whether you think I made it better or worse I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I have attempted to play with DoF several times and I have extreme trouble with it. It seems the more I play with it the worse results I get.
Does there happen to be a tutorial out there for this? Any searches I have done for it have yielded alot but nothing that seems to be what I am looking for. Anyone able to help?