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HD isn't displacement maps, which you have a separate slider to crack up displacement subdivisions.
HD does NOT exist in the manner you describe. It is a detail pass, but it will not project into clothing or respond to any body dynamics... What does is that 19K mesh, because as I said previously, everything is tied to the low poly mesh. The low poly mesh tells the clothing and dynamics where the clothing collides, HD doesn't exactly exist until after the mesh is done posing, clothing collides and subdivided. So you are still working with the low poly mesh to create the things you describe.
Except you're missing the point that HD can be applied. There are HD morphs. These could be used to fix some of these problems. In any regard, the current mesh has been too low poly for years. The high resolution mesh is 64K polygons. That's with no sub-d. There's a reason it exist. So it's very existence contradicts your assertions. Also, things don't need to stay as is. Software can change. But as others have said, the biggest problem is that the mesh edges aren't aligned with the figure's musles. So bends require more detail than would noramally be required and DAZ isn't being responsive. It's an issue that was of their own design.
I didnt say it projects into clothing. I meant the clothing in question coming with morphs to the figure the clothing is made for, that simulates the tight clothing compressing the skin, and being able to do that effectively if you are not a PA. Nor did i say it responds to any dynamics, only that it would be useful in simulating such dynamics/collisions.
I know i am not a PA, and i know i dont know the specifics of exactly how the HD tool works. But in the end, that doesnt matter. What matters is the end result - and that is that it provides the opportunity to achieve finer detail that cannot be done on the base mesh, or in DS at all without the HD tool (without using maps). And it does it through geometry, not maps at render time.
So unless you are saying that it doesnt actually do anything to the mesh of the figure, and instead converts the shape of the figure into some sort of temporary/floating displacement map on the fly, then my point still stands.
It has to effect geometry, because if it didnt, i dont see how you could apply the HD morphs made by a PA, and then export the figure as an OBJ and retain all that detail
I never said it is. What I said is you can export a displacement map from HD morphs. I mean, from Blender or ZBrush, of course not from DAZ Studio itself. As for the subd displacement level, that's indeed faster than HD, because it's a simpler subd with no smoothing. But micro-displacement is much better anyway because it "adapts" the needed subdivision to the camera view, on a per-poligon basis.
Again, for EVERY HD morph there needs to be a LOW Poly morph to guide it.. In some instances HD isn't practical, in some instances, too many HD instances will have a negative effect on the figure so you can't do too many of them. So things like compression on multiple figures or clothes tighening is simply not happening with HD. So no it doesn't contradict my statement, it's not going to do everything you want as it is at best a detail pass. That's why it's an internal tool.
That's not a problem. It's an improvement. If someone says it's a problem, it's obvious they haven't made a body shape at all. If they did, they would know that if you wanted to make a body shape different than the default, you would have to pull out the muscle flow that's there, then create your knew shape and add a lot of correctives to compensate for the new flow. I've been making body shapes since Genesis 1, my process has improved since then, it has NOT been hindered. This is all a matter of learning how to sculpt in low poly. It's not like there was HD when genesis was released, yet people still made unique morphs.
Again, HD is applied AFTER bending and collision and after the subd is applied to the joint that's posed. It does not exist when you're trying to do a similation... at all. It's not going to help a simulation because the simulation is looking at the actual figure, which is 19K. It also would be additional work because you have to create the low poly morph that does for the 'simulation' of clothes tightening because that would need to go into the clothing enough for any type of HD to work. And for this figure, there is no reason for this application because the low poly morph has to do all the work, especially if you are thinking that you want the mesh to change as the figure poses, that's a JCM with needs to be low poly first.
You can export the mesh, because it has finished the detail pass, just like subd is reapplied right after you pose a figure to smooth the joints. But again the movement and fit of clothing is driven by low poly morphs, not HD... and most times they don't overlap that well for tight clothing.
No, what you described was how you do displacement in iray. You said:
That's the process of displacement maps. HD only requires the "render subdivision" to be set at 3 or 4, depending on how the morph was loaded. Displacement has a separate dial that you have to increase independent of that.
Looking at my responses, I think before asking for the tool, I think it's necessary to dive into how genesis actually works, especially JCMs and MCMs. Your examples are basically how to implement them in your work first.
Again, I was not talking about viewport subdivision. Since Genesis is mid-poly already, a subd 4 at render level is very unpractical for animation. That's why I said "till death". While micro-displacement is much better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRzzaRvVDng
I totally understand HD being applied after bending and posing. And it makes sense that is the way it works. And that is totally fine. I think you are misunderstanding the scenarios i am suggesting, or maybe i am using the wrong words. I am not talking about using any of Daz's collision functionality, or any computational simulation inside DS. I am literally talking about faking that collision, through a custom dialled in morph through direct geometry manipulation. And it only working after daz reapplies subd etc after posing or moving the camera is also fine, because what i would use it for is mostly pose specific anyway, so it wouldnt need to adapt to any other pose. One time use.
Anyway, i gave up waiting on this in DS a long time ago (as you may have guessed from my first post after the OP). I only piped in after that to suggest what it may be useful for. That...and i love a good debate
i am content with exporting my scenes elsewhere
Normally, "HD" is a matter of sub-div. I'd rather work with low-poly models. But I am talking about modelling outside of Daz.
Converting low-poly to high-poly is a lot easier than high-poly to low-poly.
I understood, but as I said... the low poly morph is the only thing the clothes is going to look at. You'll need a low poly morph to work around that HD morph as you will have pokethrough issues. A detailed HD morph will not work if the LD morph does not follow the exact same path.
In the case of pose-specific things like indents from a grip (or contact with props) there's no need for a morph, surely - just export the emsh, sculpt it, and load it as a static prop to which you would apply textures.
I wasn't talking about viewport subdivision either. In the viewport, genesis 8 is already at subd 1. Render subdivision is only used at render time and there's a setting that is used for that. The micro-displacement does subdivision on the fly (which would be the adaptive subdivision in your video), but it's not a set amount. HD is a static set (as that's the subd you sculpted on) and eats less resources than the basic displacement does.. But HD is not displacement it's mesh-based, so you're still talking about something totally different. The subdivision value that has to be cranked up and would cause resource issues is the "displacement subdivision" dial, which is how many subdivisions you need at render time for your displacement map to display properly. It's here where the microsubdivision would come into play, not HD.
And still do, with or without the HD Tool. Lots of vendors at other stores making characters that look unique.
The specific scenario that I think I would want HD tools for is to make a decent variety of ribs morphs that could be applied to any shape on the figure, regardless of what skin is used. Displacement/bump/whichever maps don't seem suitable for this, since many skins already use one or more of the options for something else. Is this something that HD would be good for?
Rib morphs would be cool. Haven’t seen any short of the undead type figures which are highly emaciated.
Haha hah. Good one. =-)
Thank you for the Clarification, sir. :)
Sorry to say, but I dislike these items as long as the PA doesn't provide an obvious option to disable the tightness or an alternate set of presets that do not use it. Especially when those morphs don't get removed when you remove the clothing item.