When will DAZ give us the option to import HD
kyryia
Posts: 47
Today Sickleyield released an intresting tutorial guide in the shop on how to make your own character. It offcourse uses Blender. The problem is, that in the non "content publisher" editions of DAZ we can only import at the base resolution. This is kind of moot for me. I do not understand why DAZ does not include the option to import HD meshes for us normal users. Heck I would even pay for that feature. Why do you have to be a published content artist to get that benefit... It seems very unfair
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Yes, you, myself and many others would all pay for access to the HD tools the PA's get. But no matter how many times this gets mentioned in the forums (many times before now), DAZ has their reasons for only making it available to PA's. They dont really explain the reasons either, its all speculation. People have been asking for years, and since it hasn't happend yet, it probably wont.
It is a primary reason why myself and many others go to the extra effort to export to other software for editing and rendering.
the short answer
when you become a PA
yeah no chance of that here either
To me that is the single one biggest missing feature of DAZ. I was just looking at the new products for today, for example. So, a wonderful tutorial on how to make your own characters? Nice! But also almost completely useless if I will never be able to make anything worthwhile that way.
But that's how you start to make any characters. HD is only a detail pass, not how you make characters. Also as in the multiple threads before this, the HD tool is an internal tool that PAs have to sign an agreement to use. No company is obligated to release their internal tools no matter how many times it's asked. You'll have to learn how to sculpt on low poly figures, then create normal maps from that. or become a PA.
Please note:
Every single thing is tied to that 19K figure: rigging, weighmapping, morphs, jcms, mcms, etc.. so what you work on first has to be what? 19K.
If you can't make anything with the 19K figure, doing anything else will not walk. More polys does not mean you have more detail.. it's all in how you sculpt a mesh.
Once a PA ceates a character with a detailed normal map, can that be converted into an HD character so that the low poly model and normal map can be submitted to sell as an HD model?
I fail to see how any of this is unfair. this (DAZ) is a business, not a charity. makes sense to me that would keep their tool in house to attract new PAs..
How can this be the primary reason others export to other apps??? I can understand exporting to other apps for animation reasons which seems to be the primary reason based on forum posts, but I don't see the HD reason at all. DS has subD and I IMPORT game models all the time to subD them and render in DS Iray, so I fail to see the logic.
THIS!!!!
If only this were so. The reality is that poly edges do not align on muscle boundaries (this is a G3/G8 "improvement", previous versios had nicely aligned meshes) so HD is necessary for realistically muscled figures.
HD is sort of the opposite of SubD (despite the former relying on the latter). The subdivision surface algorithm, left to its own devices, smooths things, so there isn't faceting at polygon edges. It makes decisions (not always the right ones) on whether an edge is "sharp enough" to be preserved or should be smoothed, but it never adds new edges. HD lets you add edges wherever you want, so you can add detail that can participate in autofit, cast shadows, refract, etc.
Normal maps and displacement maps deal with this to some extent. Displacement maps are, by far, more realistic, but much more computationally intensive, because they literally SubD a surface, then displace it based on local normals, resulting in (internally) a higher resolution mesh "that can participate in autofit, cast shadows, refract, etc." just like HD. HD does geometrically what displacement maps do topographically.
HD doesn't participate in autofit. That's a huge caveat because you need to create projection morphs for everything, which is laborious and annoying. If it only were as simple and useful as people think it is. But of course without access they can't know, and so we will time and time again have such threads discussing something that only PA's truely know but can't adequately (or perhaps even legally because NDA) explain.
Again, your morph **has** to start with the 19K mesh. It's what the PAs do. you can't get around that. HD is just the detail on that 19K morph you made. Also there is no need for putting muscle boundaries in the mesh. If you're makiing a unique bodyshape. you have to remove that flow to in order to put that in. G3/G8 allows allow you to make your own shapes and body types.. you'd have to know your anatomy though.
Never saw this working. Always have my figure set to the subd my HD morph is at so I can see it in Iray preview. Always poke-through galore until proper projection morphs are made.
HD does not project into clothing at all. Setting the subd may give the illusion in the viewport (possibly because the morph doesn't exceed the boundary of the low poly morph), but by design it doesn't project, which is why you have to create projection morphs for any HD morph you do to prevent pokethrough.
So, let me just dial up a Gen 8 Model, add a merchant skin resource, submit it to DAZ and presto I am a PA and have access to the HD Import utility
Submitting a product doesn't make you a PA, DAZ needs to accept it....
And you have to sign an agreement. The tool comes with restrictions and not every PA has it.
Indeed; I've already submitted one that got turned down, and am working on another. It takes several tries to get in, from what I understand.
Is smoothing on? Or you talking about raw hd proper fits?
Are we talking about the same thing? Clothing poke-through with HD morphs?
Would someone answer this question or are you prohibited from doing so because of NDA?
Once a person creates a character with a detailed normal map, can that be submitted to DAZ for consideration of converting into an HD character so that the low poly model and normal map can be submitted to sell as an HD model?
Do you have to start with a NON-HD character and be considered "good enough" to have access to the tools?
Thanks for your help in understanding. :)
Of course you can submit a character with normals (well, renders of). As long as you kept the original sculpt from which the normal (or displacement) version was baked you'd be able to make an HD version if it was accepted for the store and you were given access to the HD importer.
My main interest are realistic and FACS-accurate HD animated facial expressions. I believe I have done more than "started" to make some of those in another tool but DAZ allows for an easier workflow (saving time and money) in other respects. Being stuck without the possibility to do some of the things in DAZ the way I could easily see how I should be able to do them in DAZ (as elsewhere) remains my number one missing feature of the tool.
But you still have to start with that 19K mesh to make the base expression, HD is only a detail pass to the low poly mesh. And you don't make them by just sculpting and importing an HD mesh. More steps involved. And the only way you get access to the tool to do that is be a PA and sell the product through DAZ.
Mister Kitty knows. :)
Daz decides to accept a product based on how cool it looks in renders (oversimplification, but basically). If you can do a great-looking enough sculpt at high resolution, and you make sure not to change vertex order (the HD version has to be subdivided, you can't use dynamic geometry addition features like some of the ones Zbrush has), then you can do the promos with normal maps, or a combination of normal maps and displacement if your HD morph needs more bumpiness. Comment in your submission email that you would like to make the product HD if Daz accepts it. At the very least you will be able to do HD on the second product.
I did not say THE primary reason, i said A primary reason.
There is plenty of logic there. As someone else pointed out above, HD is not the same as SubD. Sure you can import anything you want and subdivide it. What you cant do, is take a daz character, and work with the subdivided geometry. You cant create your own morphs outside the base resolution. So for fine detail work, you are stuck with HD morphs from the store made by PA's, or you use normal and displacement maps.
Maps are fine for static detail like veins, wrinkles and all that. But when you want to simulate soft body dynamics, you want morphs that can be tuned on the fly and visible in the viewport. Yes, there are some items in the store that can simulate many of the common soft body deformations/collisions (Like compression of the buttocks from sitting and some others), but what about something more specific and poses that can vary?
For example, if you wrap your hand around your forearm and squeeze, you get skin compression under your fingers, and bulge around your fingers. There is not enough mesh density in the base figure to achieve that effect, and attempting to do so and then subdividing it afterwards just smoothes it out, making it worse. I could make a displacement map for that, which would be tedious to achieve the exact strength required. And then next time when i want the compression to be on a slightly different part of the arm? make another map? and then another one? and another one? No one wants files full of 100 different maps for every possible deformation you could think of.
Clothing too. There have been some clothing items popping up that come bundled with morphs or maps that simulate the tightness of the clothing on the skin, creating compression around the edges. It would be lovely if you could do that with every piece of clothing, not just the ones made by PAs who go the extra length to include it.
So rather than go through the trouble of making displacement maps all the time, some people export to alternate software that have the ability to work with the subdivided geometry.
But like i said, its only one reason why some people do it. Depending on the alternate software used, they have other features that are handy. Like fluid simulations, or access to different renderers like V-ray or Redshift
The HD workflow in DAZ Studio is just clunky and resource bogging. You miss nothing by not having it. Since Iray doesn't provide micro-displacement, for HD to work you have to crank-up subdivision till death. This is not normal at all. It may work for still pictures but it's madness for animation.
So, if you want to work with HD characters in DAZ Studio, the only practical way I see is to export a displacement map and work with 3Delight, that provides micro-displacement. But this way you will miss PBR.
Personally I go with Blender. That is, I export to Blender and work there. At this time DAZ Studio is very limited for animation. While it's a wonderful platform for still pictures, together with GIMP or Photoshop for effects.