My Project: Brash Lonergan adventures

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Comments

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,638

    Comment: She's turning out to be a beautiful young lady, my friend! Beautiful!!!

    Bravo on you!

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602
    edited November 2017

    Thanks for the comments, Dart and Phil.  I really appreciate constructive criticism.

     

    RE: eyelids.  I modeled the face with eyes open and 2 extra loops around the eyes to open and close the lids.  Do you think it would be better to have the base model close the eyes and have the morphs open them?  I could see an argument for that because the shader for the lids will only be visible when the eyelids are closed.

    Is there a better way to do these eyelids?

     

    Base model, eyes open, two extra loops

    .

    morph to half close the eyes around the eyeball

    .

    morph to close eyelids completely

    gg01 eyelid mesh 1.JPG
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    gg02 half close.JPG
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    gg03 close eyes.JPG
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • mmoirmmoir Posts: 806
    edited November 2017

    Diomede ,  Great stuff once again.  She is looking awesome.

     Eyes are difficult,  I think when the eyes are open or in your first picture above , the selected loop should be pulled out from the face a bit.  This would give her more of an "eyelid", or you  could select the third loop of the eye and move it in toward the face more  ..  Just a thought .

    It is nice to see your model skills grow.   yes

    Post edited by mmoir on
  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,638

    Yes. Agreed with everything Mike just said... but you know that already!

    I think that, depending upon how you want the end look of the animation, you'll ejoy the appearance of eyelid movement much more if it's part of the base mesh. I say "Depending on", because if you don't mind the doll look, like those dolls whose eyes close when you lay them down, that might be an easy way to go - just a rotating semi-sphere thingy.

    But since she already looks so good, I'd go with mmoir's idea with that loop being emphasized a bit, and also keeping the lids part of the base mesh... but that's only an opinion. 

    You rock... do what your heart tells you to do!

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 4,933

    I am no expert on this but I think she needs some extra geometry for the eyelids, just extrude the loop once or twice more, and then moved so that the lid comes out (as Mike has suggested) but then in again onto the eye, so that you get the curve of the skin at the very edge of the eyelid, I think that is what is missing. And oh yes, I forgot to say - wonderful work overall, she is looking beautiful!

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602
    edited November 2017

    Thanks for the tip, Mike, Dart, and Phil.

    OK, great.  Easy to extrude a couple more loops.  Will go back and check my eyelids for Brash. Probably has the same issue.  Really appreciate the help.

    PhilW said:

    I am no expert on this but I think she needs some extra geometry for the eyelids, just extrude the loop once or twice more, and then moved so that the lid comes out (as Mike has suggested) but then in again onto the eye, so that you get the curve of the skin at the very edge of the eyelid, I think that is what is missing. And oh yes, I forgot to say - wonderful work overall, she is looking beautiful!

     

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602
    edited November 2017

    I adjusted the eyelids.  Thanks, folks, the eyes look much better even though I have worse shaders applied right now.  Edit:  I also added polygons to the nose mesh so that the bridge could be less sharp.

     

    This is very close to the final version of the base mesh.  Currently 3,740 polygons.  For comparison, Aiko 3 has 74,510.  When I make the hi res version of Moxie by converting the smoothed model, Moxie will still have less than 1/4 the polygons of Aiko 3.

     

    The shaders are back to the old simple ones and eyebrows grown directly on the model.  I also made some other changes that probably are not apparent.  For example, I adjusted the mesh around several joints to facilitate better bends.  The biggest changes were to the toes, which won't matter much because Moxie generally wears shoes.  

    moxie nov 21a.jpg
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    moxie nov 21b.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602
    edited November 2017

    Here is a concept test for using VWD to clothe these figures.  If Moxie ever wants to join a chorus line.

     

    zz01 moxie hikick.jpg
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • Headwax_CarraraHeadwax_Carrara Posts: 7,748
    edited November 2017
    Diomede said:

    Thanks for the comments, Dart and Phil.  I really appreciate constructive criticism.

     

    RE: eyelids.  I modeled the face with eyes open and 2 extra loops around the eyes to open and close the lids.  Do you think it would be better to have the base model close the eyes and have the morphs open them?  I could see an argument for that because the shader for the lids will only be visible when the eyelids are closed.

    Is there a better way to do these eyelids?

     

    Base model, eyes open, two extra loops

     

    .

    morph to half close the eyes around the eyeball

     

    .

    morph to close eyelids completely

     

     

    wow Diomede its amazing to see how far you have come.

    a long long time ago I made a tut on modelling eyeballs in anim8or - it's centred about morphs - might have something in it for you?

     

    the written tut is here - it talks about eyeball anatomy and stuff  as well 

    https://sites.google.com/site/waxfin/eyeballtutorial

     

     

     

     

     

    Post edited by Headwax_Carrara on
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 4,933

    The eyes are definitely improved - great work!

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602

    There may be a Brash 3.0 and a Moxie 3.0.

    So, I went back through the thread and reexamined some of the links to topology guides and rewatched some of the video tutorials.  Amazing how much I had forgotten, but also how much I just generally incorprate now in my workflow.  While I think the current Brash 2.0 and Moxie 2.0 are vastly improved over my initial attempts, there is still room for improvement.  I'm not worried so much about general shape, but I think some changes will significantly improve joint bends, uvmaps, shader domains, control the hair line, and more,  And, I think I am getting much faster as well.  I also went back through my Carrara 5 Handbook, which has a chapter on custom figure rigging.  Part of the reason for Brash 3.0 and Moxie 3.0 is to apply some of these lessons specific to Carrara rigging. I will post some related rigging information in my No One Asked Me thread.

     

    All of the tutorials and guides have been very helpful, but I have to give a special thank you to Vyusur.  I just watched several tutorials again.  Two thumbs up!  yesyes

    Thank you, Vyusur!

    Hope I don't slight anyone, but here are some of the folks who suggested other materials I revisited.  Amazingly helpful information.

    Thank you, DesertDude  - whole slew of videos by Blender character modeler, but really focuses on edge flow.  Priceless.

    Thank you, PhilW - many hours of Carrara guidance

    Thank you, Headwax - for the eye anatomy and modeling tips above, but also the anime warrior and other tips
    Thank you, Dartanbeck - links to Daz Studio genesis development and support 
    Thank you, Sickleyield - Rigging, FBMs, and JCMs 
    Thank you, Winterbrose - Morphing guides
    Thank you, Josh Darling - whole channel of video guides
    Thank you, FifthElement - topology guides, and even a sample model freebie!
    Thank you, Mmoir - modeling tutorial

     

    Vyusur female head

    Vyusur female body

    Vyusur ear!!!!!!!

    Vyusur foot

     

  • VyusurVyusur Posts: 1,564

    My pleasure, Diomede! Hope it will help. If I only have some time to paint skins for them and rig them... If they still alive on my other computer (I have not checked yet).

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 4,933

    Vyusur - aarrgghh! I do hope you can recover them.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602

    Oh, I hope very much that you still have your files.  Fingers crossed for hope and good luck.

     

    Vyusur said:

    My pleasure, Diomede! Hope it will help. If I only have some time to paint skins for them and rig them... If they still alive on my other computer (I have not checked yet).

     

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602

    Reversed Decision!

    I have decided that Brash 2.0 and Moxie 2.0 are sufficient.  Any changes will be done with morphs.  I got about 20% done with Brash 3.0 and realized I was pretty much generating the same mesh.

    aaa02.JPG
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  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,638
    Diomede said:

    Reversed Decision!

    I have decided that Brash 2.0 and Moxie 2.0 are sufficient.  Any changes will be done with morphs.  I got about 20% done with Brash 3.0 and realized I was pretty much generating the same mesh.

    Awesome! Glad we're on the same page! :)

  • Diomede said:

    Reversed Decision!

    I have decided that Brash 2.0 and Moxie 2.0 are sufficient.  Any changes will be done with morphs.  I got about 20% done with Brash 3.0 and realized I was pretty much generating the same mesh.

     

    terrific it's a pleasure watching this t hread :)

     

  • StezzaStezza Posts: 4,776

    Ditto that 

  • VyusurVyusur Posts: 1,564

    Phil, Diomede, thank you for your kind words!

    Diomede, excellent mesh! Good luck on that. Just give more geometry to the eyelids.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602
    edited November 2017

    Thank you HW and Stezza for the nice comments.

    And thank you, Vyusur, for the nice comment and the constructive advice. Will revisit the eyelids.

    And thank you, Dart, for your encouragement and enthusiasm.

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • Heya Diomede - wonderful to watch you pushing the boundaries - I think you need to make a dog next :)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,638
    head wax said:

    Heya Diomede - wonderful to watch you pushing the boundaries - I think you need to make a dog next :)

    ...or maybe Brash's vehicle/hotrod?

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602
    edited November 2017

    Brash tends to live life closer to Jim Rockford, rather shabby.  Moxie has the cool stuff.  smiley

    I have posted some screenshots of Brash's pod, which I think is rather cool, in a shabby kind of way.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2280931/#Comment_2280931

     

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602
    edited January 2018

    Here is a quickly thrown together Toon III render of Brash and a simple spaceship.

    Brash modeled and rigged in Carrara.

    Brash's hair is Carrara dynamic hair converted to obj using Philemo's plugin.

    Brash's tunic is a simple vertex mesh draped using VWD.

    Brash's shoes are simple vertex meshes attached to the same skeleton as the Brash figure.

    Rendered with Carrara's Toon III scene filter.

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602
    edited January 2018

    I feel like my Brash and Moxie rigged models are at about the level of Posette and Dork (Poser 4).  laugh

    Post edited by Diomede on
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 4,933

    Great work and a good "look" that you have achieved.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602

    Thanks, Phil  I'm still a little frustrated with making conforming clothing.  3DAge says that we can use "fit to" with custom figures, but I'm not having luck with my custom figures, even if I start with the same skeleton and same mesh.  Fortunately, I can just attach the clothing mesh to the same skeleton as the figure, but that requires weightmapping each time.  Or, I can use VWD.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602
    edited January 2018

    Here is an illustration of "fit to" not working for custom figures.

    I loaded my Brash animation group.

    I loaded a second Brash animation group but without the skeleton attached.  I deleted the Brash model so that just the Brash skeleton was in this second group.

    I loaded the tunic mesh and added it to the second animation group.

    I attached the tunic mesh to the second skeleton.  I tested to make sure the tunic moved with the second skeleton.

    I selected the animation group of the tunic.  I used "fit to" and chose the fist animation group, which is the Brash group.

    I posed Brash's stomach.

    The tunic animation group did not follow.

    I can apply the same NLA clip pose to the tunic separately and it will match.

     

    See the "FIT TO" option in the properties tray and that the first animation group is selected?

    .

    See that when I pose the first skeleton, the second skeleton does not follow.

    aa01 fit to not working.JPG
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    aa02 fit to not work.JPG
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 9,602
    edited January 2018

    However, I can match the NLA clip pose of the first animaton group skeleton and the second animation group skeleton

     

    aa03 match the pose.JPG
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    Post edited by Diomede on
  • StezzaStezza Posts: 4,776

    I have trouble trying to bone my dog!

     

    hmmmmm.... that don't sound right...

    I'd have no hope doing what you're doing ... great work yes

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