Why so many female content releases?
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I would definitely like to see more male content, too. My poor boys are sadly lacking in clothes. I use a lot more male characters than female, so I really need more stuff for my guys.
As far as female content selling more, maybe it wouldn't be that way if there was more stuff for the male characters in the store. it won't sell if it doesn't exist.
When I was a freshman in college (lo back 22 years ago) it happened. I got so irritated with all the upperclassmen coming onto the college forums and shutting down all the new-to-freshman discussions that I created a forum where only freshmen could post (though everybody could read). Heh. Though in cases like this where instead of discussing new ideas that anybody could implement it's more of a demand for others to do work, I can see the use of saying, "We have discussed this before." I still remember how annoying it could be though. On both sides! Heck, sometimes somebody shows up right after you've done MATH and says the same things said earlier in the thread.
Yeah, we've tried that argument. But alas, the vendors/daz won't change. So, I've pretty much given up on trying to change people's minds. I buy what I want/can use and on all female release days, my wallet is very safe.
While that is true, when content for both genders DOES exist (male and female versions of morph sets, for example) the female versions outsell the male ones. Ask any PA that's done male and female versions of a character type, like RawArt's various products.
i may be wrong but I think rawart said male monsters sold. It has been a while since I read his post but I can kind of see that.
You're missing the point by moving the goal post again. This is about the 3rd or 4th thead on this subject in about 6 months and PAs have chimed in and said the same exact thing.. and someone needs to see basically their paycheck in order to be believed?
I have no interest in becoming a Daz PA( no offense to Daz inc.)
Although I can model for anything for any generation
am only interested in making clothing I want to use in my films
for the G2-G1 figures.( near future, Sleek Sci fi styles)
G8 was Dead on arrival for me.
I am not upgrading past DS 4.8 because I have it configured
perfectly with third party plugins & Scripts
and most of my animation is created outside of DS(Iclone Pro)
and All of my final rendering is done elsewhere .
That being the case, I Would not be able produce Dforce enable content
or support Iray as Daz Iray is Poorly implemented IMHO.
Anyway here is a full render of the sister from yesterday.
Speaking as a consumer . . .
What I choose to believe or do not believe regarding a PAs motivation is ultimately irrelevant. A PA is going to do what they want to do; whether the reasons are creative or financial or a combination of both, they are going to do what they want to do. They do not have to justify that to me.
What I find a bit distressing about this forum community is that when a consumer wants to express their wishes and desires for products and potential products; there seems to be an immediate rush by some PAs and others who advocate for PAs (in a very generalized sense), to deconstruct and invalidate those said wishes and desires.
I was essentially told by a PA on another thread that my consumer feedback was generally meaningless because forum posters represent a fraction of DAZ customers. And my response was, the forums here remain our only outlet for tangible feedback. Take the feedback for what it is and move on. You don't have to prove me wrong just because I asked for something you do not want to provide.
I for one don't think these threads are pointless; just because a certain POV was determined to be accurate previously, does not mean it won't prove different in the future.
Whilst it must be frustrating wanting more of a product, I can't help but feel that if male content did have closer parity (sales versus effort) with female content, then more would be made; PAs need to make a certain level of income from their efforts, so ignoring a potential market seems very unlikely, certainly in the longer term, and for the majority. (Some may just prefer to make female/male products, just like some prefer to make architectural products for example.)
Geoffrey: what you choose to believe will weigh into whether vendors have any desire to engage and explain things, and how much they may consider the value of particular customer feedback.
If customers disregard all explanations and don’t consider them in expressing feedback, that feedback is probably going to get ignored.
And people are also ignoring the vendors who have often stated they’d LOVE to make more male content.
I mean, the reason you see male content at all is often BECAUSE a vendor wants to make it, even if it’s a poor seller.
Now imagine you’re someone who has worked hard at putting out content you knew wouldn’t sell super well, and it then doesn’t sell well. And then people are upset with you for not doing more male content.
* reaches over and takes some of your popcorn..."More butter please!" *
Wow... I didn't realize I was going to incite such a heated debate. But I am enjoying watching it all unfold!
It's not that complicated. PAs make things. I buy things. They make their production choices. I make my buying choices. Occasionally I will provide feedback. My hope is that my feedback will reach an interested ear. Considering that only a fraction of PAs seem to participate in these discussions, it's equally easy for the consumer side to not give weight to many of the explanations provided.
And ironically, I'm quite satisfied with the male/female balance in the store. It's the tone of these discussions that I find discouraging.
No one's trying to invalidate your wishes. We just get fatigued because we feel ignored.
I love male content. I love looking at men. If I could, I would be making almost nothing but male clothing. But I can't do that and make a living because one, clothing is a low-margin endeavor for me compared to literally any other product category (that is, it takes too long to make compared to how much it brings in) and two, male clothing is lower-margin yet. The Security! set for G2M took almost six months to pay back what I put into it. I enjoyed making it, I enjoy having it, but it was a hairball. I have to "pay for" my time on any large clothing set with several non-clothing sets. Even the loincloth set for G8F, which has done better than most clothing things I've attempted, did not have a good intro, it made up copies over time.
On prop/pose sets like the popular Tied Up! and Shackled! series, and the more recent Knocked Out!, I usually fold the male content in with the female release so that the female content can pay for the dev time on the males.
And then there are things like the Wizard set for Genesis 2 Male, which you might reasonably say doesn't look that great, but it took three months to finish anyway and we got almost nothing for it. Sets like Mystic Giselle and Curvaceous Olympia, on the other hand, made bank massively compared to how long they took to make (the comparable Gianni and Lee sets did not) up until the point when the bottom dropped out of trying to support figure releases in general (for me, I'm aware people still do it). The suit Marieah and I made for Genesis is still one of my biggest sellers of all time, but it took so long to get through testing that I never wanted to do something like it again. And I had a texturer on that set, I didn't even have to do the whole thing alone.
I'm working on methods now to try and decrease the time it takes to get a clothing item supported with FBMs and JCMs to Daz's standards. I hope to release them as a product, so that more people can try and make clothing in a financially viable amount of time. We'll see how that turns out. But in the meantime, people want a lot of skimpy female clothing but a lot of long-sleeved layered clothing for men, and that's much harder for a much lower return. So lots more short skirts and bikini outfits in the market are likely for the forseeable future. They're easier, faster, and they pay.
I might be wrong on this, so don't quote me, but just during this sale season it seemed to me that a lot of the male content was priced higher or not discounted as much as the female content.
There were actually items that I had in my wishlist for both male and female, and the male almost always seemed to be higher priced. This constantly put me in the position of weighing out the math during the sale. Do I get that one higher priced male item or get two or even three lower priced female items. I saw the same thing happen with character bundles. Monique Pro gave you both previous versions for free with a ton of content. By comparison I didn't see the same thing with any male characters that week. I instantly jumped at getting the Damien Demon bundle over any of the female bundles I could've gotten for that price simply because it gave me a few more unique male items to work with.
I'm certainly not ignoring vendors who are making quality male products. I've spent a small fortune these last few months that proves otherwise.
I'm not upset with anyone. I think there is too much emphasis on the $$$ side of the reasoning. PAs make what they want to make. Two of my favorite vendors are Stonemason and Antfarm. They obviously create the types of product they enjoy making. I believe that PAs who do male wardrobes do it because they like to and they're good at it. Each PAs financial considerations are their own. Just because Stonemason could make skimpware doesn't mean he necessarily wants to just to generate the $$$.
It's pretty hard to over-emphasize the $$$ side of the reasoning. I like having money. I'm pretty sure most of us do, what with things like mortgages/rent and food and so on. For the largest names in the market this isn't a hobby, it's a job, and miscalculating the marketability of a product that took weeks could mean scrambling to make ends meet. I'm not in that situation, but that's partly because I also mostly choose to only make things I know will pay.
There's an internet phenomenon that I see all the time and don't understand. A lot of people expect that content providers (people who produce video content like tutorials and other stuff, or people who produce software products, etc.) are a different class of people who don't need to make a living. People actually get upset when someone who normally produces free stuff even hints at charging $$ for some of the stuff they produce.
Maybe they think these content providers live off in some strange internet world where they don't have to buy groceries and pay rent and go to the doctor and take care of their kids. People expect them to do whatever they want, and do it for free. It's really strange.
You see it all the time with the tech guys on youtube. The audience gets upset when they think that some manufacturer is sponsoring them. Or that they're trying to sell something. Everyone needs to eat and pay bills. And if what you want them to do isn't the best way for them to pay bills, case closed. You respect their decision and move on.
Imagine you're working hard to produce content just to pay the bills, and someone complains because they want you to produce something that is a waste of their time and gives only a fraction of the income that other stuff gives. What would YOU say to the complainer? I'd say "Thanks, but what you want doesn't matter because it's not worth my time. Sorry". That's about all they owe you. Life is tough.
My apologies, I stated that very poorly. I just meant that PAs do what they choose to, and of course at the end of the day it has to be worth your while. I truly respect that. I guess what I'm trying to articulate is that when I give feedback as a consumer, I'm not expecting any kind of explanation in return. I'm just hoping that my feedback may be heard and considered by someone.
So if this is a continuing trend and less and less male content will be made, does that mean there will be no male character releases in the future, only barbiedolls and skimpwear topped with some SF/Fantasy stuff?
If my comments seem to imply a sense of entitlement, I'm very sorry, that was not my intention.
My feedback is generally very simple and basic: if you're willing to produce XYZ, I'm here ready and willing to pay for it.
I sure hope so
It's somewhat understandable. I think the very nature of the internet is that people are no longer people, but just some abstract thing off in the internet somewhere. When we deal with real people face-to-face we understand that they are real and have real needs and so on. But it's easy with the internet to consider everyone as some abstract idea out there that doesn't really exist. Add to that the fact that we get just about everything on the internet for free, and feeling entitled is pretty much a standard attitude.
There always has to be some kind of male figure for various reasons, or there wouldn't still be any made.
No, the ratio pretty consistently hovers around 2.5 in favor of the females, it's not really getting worse. Not better, but not worse.
Not before I get my loincloths. When was the last time DAZ sold a nice pulp novel male loincloth?
Thing is, the problem isn't that Vendors hate doing these cool things you want, it's that the other customers aren't interested in them.
Perhaps feedback and efforts should be more aimed at the other customers; I mean, I've been sad nobody's made a Four Arms product again. But the problem is that I'm probably in a very small pool of people who bought it and has interest in a new one.
So... hey. Everybody. Buy more Four arms! It's cool! BARSOOM and so much more! If we get enough interest, maybe we'll see a new version, or even a six arm to make cool Mariliths! WOO!
But I don't focus on the vendors, because it's not only financially ruinous to work months on a project that makes hardly any money, it's also really disheartening. Imagine that, you sweat and work and tweak and go through rounds of QA to fix problems and learn how to do this and that, and finally!
Five people are very excited. And you need to plan a more cautious food budget for the next two months.
Believe me, if motorscooters were all the rage and EVERY motorscooter product sold gangbusters, all the vendors would be making at least one motorscooter.
I think I have a nice one for G1;)