Hexagon Vs. Blender

24

Comments

  • Software is a very "your mileage may vary". Ya just gotta try it to see which you like and with demos and free versions, you can easily do that.  I also find software a, b, c and so on may have similarities if they're good modeling programs, but most have differences which are unique. There is nothing that says you can't use more than one program. You may find one model is better/easier to make in one program and another in another program. Don't limit yourself. Try them all, use what works.

    The more you stick to it and learn about 3D, the easier you'll find it is to use most programs for their commonalities.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 36,964
    edited December 2017
    ebergerly said:

    If you have tried Blender recently you know the hotkeys have been improved so that you don't need an encyclopedic for many of them -

    Yeah, I definitely think the hotkey thing is from the past, and in recent versions it's almost a non-issue. And this is from someone who HATES hotkeys, mainly because I use a lot of apps and can never remember them. I'd say 95% of most things the average user needs to do are quickly done via existing buttons or menu items. 

    Where Blender falls, in my opinion, is that it throws tons of functions together and front-and-center to the user, when in fact they should make only the most often used features visible, and the less used features under menus. The left hand menu is great, but it has far too many functions that I never use. 

    Because of that I've made my own tool bar using Python, with my most often used functions. For example, it has a single button which loads a base G3 character OBJ into the scene, with the correct scale, for when I make clothing. Press a button and G3 is there, posed and ready. The other critical thing to do is to set up preferences to make, for example, a left mouse button select instead of RMB. There are a handful of others that will help immensely. 

    Another great option is the free addon called Blender Sensei, which has basically re-vamped the functions and interface to make it DRASTICALLY more intuitive.  

    ...and this is another point why Blender doesn't work for me, I don't do scripting.  I quit coding almost two decades ago due to severe burnout from doing it for a living and needing large amounts of alcohol just to relax and knock myself out so I wouldn't lay awake all night with code running through my head.  The last thing I want to deal with in my leisure time is to go back to that.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • SerumSerum Posts: 256

    All of my products on the store i created using blender 

    I wont lie there is a learning curve to getting started in blender but this is the good thing. There are sooooo many tutorials on youtube for blender so you can actually get up and moving faster than you think. 

  • Serum said:

    All of my products on the store i created using blender 

    I wont lie there is a learning curve to getting started in blender but this is the good thing. There are sooooo many tutorials on youtube for blender so you can actually get up and moving faster than you think. 

    I will say this, hat's off to the blender people when it comes to tutorial there are so many of them it's incredible !

  • BlueIreneBlueIrene Posts: 1,318

    I spent years periodically downloading Blender, trying to edit or even move the default cube and then giving up again. All those changes that have been made to the interface along the way must have added up to something though, and in July this year it finally clicked. I hate hotkeys and can't imagine that ever changing, but very few are really necessary to use Blender and I absolutely love the program now. I use it pretty much every day and it's almost starting to feel like an extension of my right arm. One of the things I love about it most is that there's not been a single query or problem I've encountered that hasn't been solved after a quick consultation with Google, and there are tons of addons to simplify complicated operations or to make things like creating trees, pipework and architecture a doddle. Another real plus is that once I spent a morning or two getting to grips with UV unwrapping in Blender it's proved to have the simplest and most flexible tools for the job of any 3D modeller I've ever tried, and I've tried pretty much all of them.

    Trialling these programs and attempting to get Blender to work for me on all those previous occasions was a direct result of my frustration with the constant crashes of Hexagon (I've crashed Blender only once since July, and that was a result of my early-days ignorance). I'd had the thought 'I wish they'd just update Hexagon' in the back of my mind for so many years that when I saw they'd done it recently my first thought was 'Oooh!', closely followed by 'Whatever do I want that for now?'. The only advantage I can see is the Daz/Hexagon bridge, and since Blender/Daz import/export just takes a couple of minutes I'd rather have the many advantages of Blender. Did I mention that I absolutely love that program? :)

  • MandirantsMandirants Posts: 1,259
    edited December 2017

    Software is a very "your mileage may vary". Ya just gotta try it to see which you like and with demos and free versions, you can easily do that.  I also find software a, b, c and so on may have similarities if they're good modeling programs, but most have differences which are unique. There is nothing that says you can't use more than one program. You may find one model is better/easier to make in one program and another in another program. Don't limit yourself. Try them all, use what works.

    The more you stick to it and learn about 3D, the easier you'll find it is to use most programs for their commonalities.

     

    Thanks, Cris. Sounds like good advice. smiley 

    And thanks, everyone, for all of the insight and encouragement. This is becoming a really fun adventure! Really happy I made my way back here.

    Post edited by Mandirants on
  • MandirantsMandirants Posts: 1,259

    Hey... I guess that's what you were trying to say, eh, Silent Winter? OK... I'm a dork. LOL smiley

    That's the one cheeky

    smileysmileysmiley

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 36,964
    edited December 2017

    ...well, for myself, I am glad the Hexagon update is in the works. It will make that 40$ (plus 35$ in vouchers and coupon value) finally worth it.

    For those who can more readily grasp Blender, work with it, and turn out great models that is wonderful (Fire Angel uses Blender and I hae a lot of his very well detailed models). It also comes down to what "clicks" and what doesn't for you.  Blender is in the "it doesn't" category, Hexagon and Silo are in the "it does" one. Maybe if I started with Blender years ago from the beginning (2003 four years before I even kew that 3D creative programmes existed) when it was primarily a modelling progamme the situation might be different today.  However, based on my experience with CG back in the 80s, it also might not have been as I was still a pen/pencil/brush artist (though my ability and technique were already going downhill by then).

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,263

    Very contentious... potentially at least.

    I don't like Hexagon. I do like Blender.

    But the OP is asking the right questions with the wrong title IMO.

    Even asking for pros and cons isn't helpful; if you find you prefer using one to the other, that is really the only pro you need.

     

  • SerumSerum Posts: 256

    I started on blender for simple reasons.

    Its free

    it has a large community with a bunch of tutorials

    its updated regulary 

    i kinda like the open nature of it the fact its open source feels like i am sticking my fingers up to the man haha

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 36,964
    edited December 2017

    ...I don't see a small niche company like Daz as being "the man". 

    ..and it's not like Hexagon costs 1,000s or even 100s anymore.  For many years it has been under 20$ and now is also that very good price known as "free".

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • SerumSerum Posts: 256
    kyoto kid said:

    ...I don't see a small niche company like Daz as being "the man". 

    ..and it's not like Hexagon costs 1,000s or even 100s anymore.  For many years it has been under 20$ and now is also that very good price known as "free".

    I was referring to ones like maya and 3DS max truth be told i didnt even hear of hexagon till this year so it didnt even come on my radar when i was getting into it

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 10,539
    Serum said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...I don't see a small niche company like Daz as being "the man". 

    ..and it's not like Hexagon costs 1,000s or even 100s anymore.  For many years it has been under 20$ and now is also that very good price known as "free".

    I was referring to ones like maya and 3DS max truth be told i didnt even hear of hexagon till this year so it didnt even come on my radar when i was getting into it

    I don't think of any software company as "the man" since everyone has to make a living, but I may be biased since I am a Max user, LOL.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 36,964

    ...well, maybe Microsquish.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 15,928

    HEY!!! Thanks everyone for all of the feedback!!! smiley You may have noticed that I have been somewhat MIA...

    I have been playing with Blender!! smileysmileysmiley

    Little back story:

    I mentioned I tried to learn before and had given up. Well, this was a few years ago, and back then Blender was a way bigger pain in the patootie than it is now. I would find myself clicking when I should drag or left clicking when I needed to right click and I just couldn't break myself from these left-clicking habits I had developed using various windows based software my whole life and to make matters even more maddening... there was no undo button. So, frustrated, I had completely given up on ever trying to learn Blender, knowing that I am clumsy and prone to rush to try to go as quickly as I'm thinking, it was just an incompatible software for me.

    But, back then, Hexagon wasn't any easier to figure out how to use because there was ABSOLUTELY NO documentation that was helpful in any way and all of the tutorials that I could find wanted $$$ to have access to them. I struggled for awhile with the few things I could find to help and I asked alot of questions... but, in the end, like I said, gave up.

    BUT

    Blender is better now!!! smiley It doesn't hate me anymore. I could switch it so it will let me left click to select!! And there's an Undo button.

    Yea!! smileysmileysmiley 

    I'm actually having fun with it. I don't mind the shortcuts at all. The ones I've been introduced to are REALLY simple and easy to remember. "H" for hide. "B" for box, etc. Shift+click to select multiple "whatevers"...AND the commands are ALL THE SAME for every tool. I find it very easy to remember them (for some reason I don't even understand). 

    But I have encountered a little thing following the tutorial I've been using, that I am hoping someone can help me with.

    In the tutorial, I'm supposed to be able to go into the proportional editing mode and select the "random" setting to make the edge of my model, well... random. I've done the tutorial form beginning to end, following along EXACTLY about 6 times and my model looks just like his until I try to randomize. In mine it barely makes any random change at all. It only seems to be affecting the few points next to the point I click. In his it seems to make the whole object random. I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong.

    I've included the tutorial link I'm using... the part I'm stuck at begins around 33:00. Any help or suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

    And thanks again, everyone! 

    I also prefer the way Blender does the shortcuts by default. They are clever for reducing accidental mouse confusion and I'm left handed so maybe they seem more natural although I mouse with my right hand.

    As far as your problem at minute 33 he didn't say he did it & I only watched the video in small screen embedded on the DAZ website but it looks like he must of selected an edge loop select (alt-RMB) before he did O (proportional-edit)-R (Random Mode) G (move) Z (on Z axis)

    And I'll have to do his tutorials too he sounds like he enjoys it & that certainly helps the people trying to learn fom him.

    I thought that too and I tried to select the entire loop edge, but that results in no affect at all

    I will do tutorial tomorrow & see if I have your problem & post back here. Sorry but it won't be til tomorrow evening Eastern Standard Time.

    That would be great!! That's fine. I appreciate it. Thanks. smiley

    I forgot to remind you that the 'strength' or 'size' of the proportial edit influence can be made larger or smaller by scrolling the MMB if I remember correctly so scroll MMB up (away from your palm) and see if that increases the influence of your random G-Z vertex moves.

    YES!!!!! That did it!!! Thank you sooooooooo much! It was driving me nuts!!! laughyes

    Very happy to hear that as I am still painting kitchen cabinets today!

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 15,928

    The thing about the 'man' is he always seems to be somebody else.

  • InkuboInkubo Posts: 704

    Blender is better now!!! smiley It doesn't hate me anymore. I could switch it so it will let me left click to select!! And there's an Undo button!!

    Oh, yeah! Changing the user prefs for left-click selection is the biggest usability improvement ever. I think Blender would make a better first impression if that were the default!

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675

    Please note Carrara i
    s also a modeling app. 
    Includes splines, metaballs, booleans, vertex, font primitives, exports to obj.  uv maps.
     

  • MandirantsMandirants Posts: 1,259
    edited December 2017
    Mistara said:

    Please note Carrara i
    s also a modeling app. 
    Includes splines, metaballs, booleans, vertex, font primitives, exports to obj.  uv maps.
     

    To be honest... I kinda hate Carrara. Well, I hated it when I used it. I have no idea if there have been improvements. I can't even imagine trying to learn to model in there! At the time I was using it, it had better rendering capabilities than Daz Studio, but there was no support and it was clunky and awkward to me, as if  it was designed by 100 different people who never worked together on anything. Kinda like how I imagine most EA games are made. 

    Post edited by Mandirants on
  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675
    Mistara said:

    Please note Carrara i
    s also a modeling app. 
    Includes splines, metaballs, booleans, vertex, font primitives, exports to obj.  uv maps.
     

    To be honest... I kinda hate Carrara. Well, I hated it when I used it. I have no idea if there have been improvements. I can't even imagine trying to learn to model in there! At the time I was using it, it had better rendering capabilities than Daz Studio, but there was no support and it was clunky and awkward to me, as if  it was designed by 100 different people who never worked together on anything. Kinda like how I imagine most EA games are made. 

    Witcher 3heartheart

  • MandirantsMandirants Posts: 1,259
    edited December 2017
    Mistara said:
    Mistara said:

    Please note Carrara i
    s also a modeling app. 
    Includes splines, metaballs, booleans, vertex, font primitives, exports to obj.  uv maps.
     

    To be honest... I kinda hate Carrara. Well, I hated it when I used it. I have no idea if there have been improvements. I can't even imagine trying to learn to model in there! At the time I was using it, it had better rendering capabilities than Daz Studio, but there was no support and it was clunky and awkward to me, as if  it was designed by 100 different people who never worked together on anything. Kinda like how I imagine most EA games are made. 

    Witcher 3heartheart

    laugh I was a Sims 3 Fan. I have played Sims 4 on Origin with Access... but yeah, my heart was broken. sad

    Post edited by Mandirants on
  • With the raidal menus standard in 2.79, you really don't need to rember many shortcuts at all, to model. B, C, Tab, Q, K, T, and N, NUMPAD 3, 7, 5, and 1.

    It's helpful to know what the number row does (` through 0). 

    Perssonally, I killed the radial menu after a week, because I know enough hot keys, and it slows me down, but honestly, I see why they made the thing. It's a lot more useful for people who find two extra clicks less trouble than invoking something by tapping the keyboard. And given Studio's click heavy interface, it seems this is right up the Daz user's alley, though I'm sure that's not why Blender added that. (I suspect it was added to corre because it looks sexy).

    IMO, pretty much every pro and con people raise about blender vs their other app is down to what they like doing, so it's not really useful advice unless someone like you in style happens to both show up, and speak in your language. (a person with your work style but with communication style that burns your biscuits isn't going to help much).

    So, Blender's two main disavantages that are nothing do with style (and I use, love and support others using Blender, so I'm not pooping. I think these are real issues) are coordinate systems and grouping.

    Coordinates. Not all 3D apps agree, but there are two ways to visualize a the XY plane. Cartographically, or mathematically. (I just made those terms up, but I think they apply). Blender does is cartograpically. Like a map. Y is "north south" and X is "east west" Z then is up down. Daz does it mathematically. The plane is the black board or white board, which is on the wall of the lecture hall. Y is up down. X is left right. Z is then toward you away from you.

    To switch between these systems, you need to make the right adjustments to the Blender or Daz importers/exporters, and this can get tricky. (and Blender's defaul Obj import settings kinda suck, but I'm considering this sub set of this because they are pretty easy to fix. The export settings are a bit more challenging)

    Groups. Daz groups geometry by face. Blender does it by vertex. This means the groups you create in Blender may not quite match what ends up in Daz. Because groups are important for defining material zones, bone selection, and even rigging using figure setup, one typically has to pull a back and forth of extra steps to make sure that the results coming into studio match what you expect, at least until you get used to it.

    Obviously, you already chose Blender, so I'm not trying to change your mind, but rather give fair warning of the biggest issues, in my experience, translating between the two programs. I don't think these issues are showstoppers, and I'm sure there are people who make products with Blender and find the idea of these as issue quaint. Because they aren't hard (Blender isn't really hard) just fiddly. Once you get past the fiddly bits, it gets to be just stuff you do. It's just humna nature that people dislike dealing with the fiddly bits, and won't unless forced by some circumstance. I mean, I felt the same way about Studio's interface as many naysayers here feel about Blender's, just opposite. Too many clicks to get to build tool. It's tedious and not good for repetivie stress injuries. But it's what one has to do to use the features, so I learned.

    I, personally, don't see the difference between learning right click, edit, adjust rigging to shape and learning Alt+Right click (which don't have anything to do with each other, but are both terribly useful things to memorize depending on the program, especiall if you mean to make any kind of figure, like clothing), but that's me. I prefer 2 key strokes against click-move-click(hover and wait out the delay)-move-click but I'm sure there as perfectly logical reason to prefer to do all things with a mouse.

  • MandirantsMandirants Posts: 1,259

    With the raidal menus standard in 2.79, you really don't need to rember many shortcuts at all, to model. B, C, Tab, Q, K, T, and N, NUMPAD 3, 7, 5, and 1.

    It's helpful to know what the number row does (` through 0). 

    Perssonally, I killed the radial menu after a week, because I know enough hot keys, and it slows me down, but honestly, I see why they made the thing. It's a lot more useful for people who find two extra clicks less trouble than invoking something by tapping the keyboard. And given Studio's click heavy interface, it seems this is right up the Daz user's alley, though I'm sure that's not why Blender added that. (I suspect it was added to corre because it looks sexy).

    IMO, pretty much every pro and con people raise about blender vs their other app is down to what they like doing, so it's not really useful advice unless someone like you in style happens to both show up, and speak in your language. (a person with your work style but with communication style that burns your biscuits isn't going to help much).

    So, Blender's two main disavantages that are nothing do with style (and I use, love and support others using Blender, so I'm not pooping. I think these are real issues) are coordinate systems and grouping.

    Coordinates. Not all 3D apps agree, but there are two ways to visualize a the XY plane. Cartographically, or mathematically. (I just made those terms up, but I think they apply). Blender does is cartograpically. Like a map. Y is "north south" and X is "east west" Z then is up down. Daz does it mathematically. The plane is the black board or white board, which is on the wall of the lecture hall. Y is up down. X is left right. Z is then toward you away from you.

    To switch between these systems, you need to make the right adjustments to the Blender or Daz importers/exporters, and this can get tricky. (and Blender's defaul Obj import settings kinda suck, but I'm considering this sub set of this because they are pretty easy to fix. The export settings are a bit more challenging)

    Groups. Daz groups geometry by face. Blender does it by vertex. This means the groups you create in Blender may not quite match what ends up in Daz. Because groups are important for defining material zones, bone selection, and even rigging using figure setup, one typically has to pull a back and forth of extra steps to make sure that the results coming into studio match what you expect, at least until you get used to it.

    Obviously, you already chose Blender, so I'm not trying to change your mind, but rather give fair warning of the biggest issues, in my experience, translating between the two programs. I don't think these issues are showstoppers, and I'm sure there are people who make products with Blender and find the idea of these as issue quaint. Because they aren't hard (Blender isn't really hard) just fiddly. Once you get past the fiddly bits, it gets to be just stuff you do. It's just humna nature that people dislike dealing with the fiddly bits, and won't unless forced by some circumstance. I mean, I felt the same way about Studio's interface as many naysayers here feel about Blender's, just opposite. Too many clicks to get to build tool. It's tedious and not good for repetivie stress injuries. But it's what one has to do to use the features, so I learned.

    I, personally, don't see the difference between learning right click, edit, adjust rigging to shape and learning Alt+Right click (which don't have anything to do with each other, but are both terribly useful things to memorize depending on the program, especiall if you mean to make any kind of figure, like clothing), but that's me. I prefer 2 key strokes against click-move-click(hover and wait out the delay)-move-click but I'm sure there as perfectly logical reason to prefer to do all things with a mouse.

    Thanks for the insight and detailed information! Very much appreciated! I'm not disregarding Hexagon or anything, but my brain does have it's limitations! LOL. I have to begin somewhere... and I still haven't really played with Daz Studio's new toys as I am trying to decide what I need in there, what I don't need, what can be converted, how to convert what I can... Whew! It's ALOT! But, the stuff you mentioned is good to know going forward. Thanks!
  • diomede....

    you lose 10 points =P

  • MandirantsMandirants Posts: 1,259

    diomede....

    you lose 10 points =P

    laughlaughlaugh

  • JamesJABJamesJAB Posts: 1,759

    My vote goes for Hexagon.
    Dispite the bugs and crashes, it's controls make sense for me.

    All of my modleing so far has been architectural/mechanicla, so I have no idea how it would be for organic stuff.

    This was built in Hexagon then imported into Studio for lighting, materials, and rendering.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 36,964

    ..that looks pretty good.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 12,572

    Crap! - and I'm running low on points. surprise

    Do I get any points back for working on a Carrara challenge entry in which I modeled and textured everything myself, including the human figure?

    diomede....

    you lose 10 points =P  

     

    JamesJAB, love the space scene.  You earn some MatCreator points.  yes

     

  • MandirantsMandirants Posts: 1,259
    edited December 2017

    That's an awesome scene JamesJAB! smiley

    And...

    You guys are funny! laugh

    One of these days I will take some serious time to contemplate the intricacies of Social Identity Theory and "Team Spirit", but no time today! LOL

    And... I've sort of already accepted that I may need both -- maybe even others -- eventually. wink

    I'm calling it!!  ...Tie Game

    laughlaughlaugh

    Thanks, Everyone!

    Post edited by Mandirants on
  • PadonePadone Posts: 2,126
    edited December 2017

    I mainly use DAZ Studio as a content generator for Blender. Because Blender has better animation and rendering tools. Not to mention simulations and fx that in Studio are almost inexistent and/or at the very early stage.

    Hexagon is just a modeler. And it doesn't even have sculpting so it's old school. It recalls me of Nendo, Wings and Silo somewhat. Very old stuff. The most useful feature to add to Hexagon right now would probably be sculpting to edit HD morphs and/or export them to normal maps. So that those "interactive licenses" could be of some use at last.

    Blender is a full 3D platform for animation and fx. Not just modeling. And IMHO it's far better than DS+Hexagon at the time being.

    Post edited by Padone on
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