Whoever runs the daz3d sales might want to consider
lenwilder
Posts: 188
Currently, my DMI installed content items is over 2,400. This is probably less than a few longer term users, but a lot more than others.
I re-subscribed to PC+ the first week in August and have not made a purchase.
All the sales with buy one or two new releases in order to buy what I might be able to use at prices (still not really sale priced) is my resistance.
Think about it this way... If I have to buy one or more things I don't want to get an item or two I don't want means my library is about 1/3 content I cannot use and at best about 2/3 what I really can use.
This has gone on in my case for several years.
I am not complaining. I am merely trying to clarify for Daz3d they aren't really thinking about the sales...especially for those of us who already have made a large number of purchases.
Months back we had sales...buy a new release (any new release) and get good discounts on additional content purchases. This wasn't too bad, because we could at least buy something cheap we didn't need to acquire things we could use for somewhat reduced prices.
Every sale since August Daz3d shop has only had new items I don't need or cannot use at 30% or 40% discount, and basically each item is over $10. So, we have to pay $10 to get a somewhat reduced price content we can actually use ...is one way to look at it.
Again. I am not complaining. I use Daz3d content as export into Iclone and other software. It may be that I am pretty well maxed for Daz3d content, and I just need to find other sources. I am not too sure about his, becaue I do like the quality of many Daz3d artists overall. It is abit difficult exporting sometimes, but still worth the effort.
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Comments
not only that you know it's bad when you need a lawyer to read the details.
Especially like the dark of the moon clause.
Not to be the devil's advocate, but.....
If I have to buy one or more things I don't want to get an item or two I don't want means my library is...
It's not that you can't get the item you do want, it's your desire is to get the item you want AT THE LOWEST POSSIBLE PRICE.
Buy this to get this- is a bundle. Everywhere does that. That's running a business/shop 101. If cable did that, you'd only buy 4 channels. lol
That (lowest) price is reserved (if you will) for those buying NEW STUFFS or taking advantage of some kind of bundled deal.
You'd still be able to buy it at discount just for slightly higher.
You get 30% off as a PC+ member.
THAT IS YOUR BASE PRICE for the DAZ store items.
You should consider that your normal price.
What everyone does is, consider 84% off as their 'normal' shopping price and anything above that is outrageous. lol
I keep thinking at some point there will be some required buy this item I can actually use along with an artist content I am interested to buy.
That's awesome when that happens. All of this depends on how much you render. If you render a lot than building a library is part of your engine.
You grab stuff you might use, hope to use or is simply too good a deal to pass up or too cool an item not to own.
If you ONLY buy stuff you know you're going to use and don't intend to build a massive library, then buy new at your 30% off rate....
Buy FastGrab...when it's something you want.
Use ATIs browser add on and add price alerts for the items you want, but don't want to pay over a certain amount for.
Play cart games..
When you go shopping in those mega fast grabs, there's a balance. If you only want a few old items, DO NOT add a new item in your cart for what amounts to a dollar off per item.
Better off, grabbing those few older items at less-reduced prices. (Which are still pretty good savings on their own)
If you buy new items DO NOT load you cart with crap just because they cost $3.99 compared to their $19.95 debut price from 12 years ago.
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Our eyes are always bigger than our runtimes.
Daz is a buffet table. Gotta know when loading your plate is wasteful.
AVXP
I produce videos. My requirements for content are huge compared to static render developers (one shot pictures). I have to constantly fill scenes with content or create myself.
I have been here for a couple years and have over 2500 content purchases (no individual content items). No doubt those Daz3d users who do single shot work, do not have any empathy or understanding of what those of us who produce videos have to spend. Video requires 30 to 60 frames per second of run time. A static shot is 1 frame.
Video producers have to squeeze content and milk it as much out of it as possible.
We, video producers, may sound like cheap skates, but that is not a fair presumption. We have to spend alot more money on practically everything we do. Video producers, especially indie producers have to really watch our money
Not a permanent fix but there's a reason I've been so excited about the PC+ Anniversary sale... a new PC+ release EVERYDAY in the 'debut' category... At least that was true last year.
Video requires 30 to 60 frames per second of run time.
Are you doing animation? Then you are buying a set.
Then the truth is the opposite.
You get more mileage from your purchases.
You get a set to FILM your movie/videos in. A one-shotter gets 1 picture.
It costs the same for both.
I don't follow.
yeah we may sound like cheap skates
And I'd NEVER CALL ANYONE CHEAP. Frugal, maybe. lol
This is an expensive hobby/endeavor/interest. Or it can become costly very easily.
I say to most- stay in your lane. That is not an insult.
If you are a light user, then what's the need?
You want a western town? If you just got an urge for a western town set, buy the buildings for $1.99 and build the background for your render.
Stonemason has an incredible town set. Does EVERYONE need that? No.
But if I'm doing commercial work or have been here long enough, I might want a fresh look.
So I get the newest release.
Same for dresses, shoes, cars...people...sets...poses....Generations of Victoria.
I have to continuously update scenes for video. Viewers will not stay with your videos unless you are doing 2D cartoon videos. It is important when producing video to have things going on in backgrounds, foregrounds, changing scenes all the time. Yes, I look for content with alot of intereactive posibilities when I purchase content, i.e., elevators, stairways, moving doors,hallwasy, mezzanines, opengings, etc. I look for things I can use to engage with my charcters as well.
Think on it this way... 30 frames per second is just about as low as I can go with any reasonable level of video quality. That requires 300 possible variations and views in a 10 second video. 10 seconds can seem forever to viewers unless you are constantly providing video changes. You can bet we are very interested to do all we can with content in scenes.
A 10 minute video has 1,800 frames or single images. Don't think you can't use alot of content in that time. I mostly produce video in 60 FPS, 3d videos with animation and 720 minimum resolution. That is 3,600 frames of single images. All content purchased or created.
It is so much easier making real human videos, because you can use real world sets and scenes. Real people just recite their scripts and you don't have to create the animations, lipsync, etc. Animated 3D Video production requires starting with nothing and making something from there.
I have alot of Stonemason content... Think about it A simple scene with 2 characters walking down a street in one of the his urban packs. The characters walk the background and foregrounds are changing constantly. The ability to do alot with his content makes it more valuable to video producers, because he provides alot of content items and props in his packs.
Simple one scene prop sets, etc. are pretty well worthless for video work.
Stonemason packs aren't cheap. I don't gripe the price, because I get alot of content for the money. I generally don't buy SM packs unless I have a project in the works. I have however bought a considerable number of them when prices were best.
I watched a Walt Disney animated movie a while back. After it was over I was visting with a few friends who watched it with me. We weren't paying attention to the TV, but all of a sudden one of my friends chimed in, "my gosh look at the number of people it took to make that movie". The credits just kept rolling and rolling. I said, "It takes a lot people to create animated movies, because everything you see has to be created or developed by someone, which can take a lot of people and resources."
I don't recall the film, but if I do I will post it here.
While somewhat true, they still have different needs compared to those that do single frame images, simply because they need more overall content.
Not to seem like an elitist but have you considered learning
how to model your own clothing content at least ??
I am a hard sci fi nerd with a need for near future clothing
and I prefer the genesis 1-2 figures.
I decided to aquire the modeling skills and create my own as the "sci fi"
store offerings were mostly skin tight fetishwear for the latest Genesis
Females.
You cant imagine how liberating it is to create EXACTLY the outfits you wnat
for you animated films with ZERO regard for what the PA's are producing.
Now on the matter of sets & environments I dont need as many new sets
and I have everything from Stonemason for contemporary and futuristc environments.
and I also create My own props when needed.
Also you can "kitbash" set content even without modeling skills
This video Clip from my feature length animated film, has a mix of
Stonemason,Sanctumart,Dreamlight and my own original models
Video on google drive
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2TYEp536iB8THNhYzV3c3VXN0k/view
Note at 3:00 mins the cabin of the space craft is made from a sci fi cooridoor
from the Daz store, the stone mason Greeble city blocks, and an old"sanctumart" RDL7 chair console
from 15 years ago.
All placed inside a space ship hull I modeled myself.
you have to get creative.
I think I've only used the "buy a new item to get another item at discount" once or twice. I've found that REALLY often I want something and put it on my wishlist, and by the time it's on sale at a discount - I have no need or desire for it any more - and remove it from my wishlist. It's also very frustrating that some PAs and some products are put on sale over and over and over again, they seem to show up at a discount every week for one reason or another - when other things are almost never on sale. I really resent seeing the same PAs suff discounted repeatedly, because it means that something else is not being discounted.
Here is more kit bashing again with some Daz store Items
some old Sanctumart peices for the final incubation chamber
Free Space backgrounds from the web
and space ships & planets that I modeled Myself.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2TYEp536iB8dFh4OHNiRldLalU/view
Wolf359
I quit using pre-genesis characters, because I had problems with lip-sync and expressions exporting from Daz3d, to 3dxchange into IClone.
So.. I pretty well use Genesis to Genesis 3 characters. I have a lot of them.
Recntly, I started to concentrate on using the RL CC, because of increased flexibility for just about everything.
There are more clohting options availalble on almost a daily basis with CC,
I do kit bashing and use 3d warehouse alot.
"...Think on it this way... 30 frames per second is just about as low as I can go with any reasonable level of video quality. That requires 300 possible variations and views in a 10 second video. 10 seconds can seem forever to viewers unless you are constantly providing video changes. You can bet we are very interested to do all we can with content in scenes...."
It has been my experience that the only time viewers get bored with 10 seconds of video is if the producer of the video had nothing to say that was worth 10 seconds. In other words, the story is what keeps viewer's interest foremost. If the story and characters are engaging, you needn't worry about changing your background every 10 seconds.
Hmm... I would not argue with that. I am not opposed to different ways of doing things. I just keep track of the viewers on my videos and have my own criteria for successful videos.
What do you mean? My image series take less content overall than a bunch of disconnected images. In other words, how is animating NV(dancing)IATWAS taking more content than just still rendering a frame?
LOL - Each frame has to be rendered. It is usually possible to use cameras to use same content. That works fine,but you cannot stay with the same scene conitnuous.
Try doing some animated scenes and replay them.
I guess it depends on what you are animating and the subject. I am doing a film. It is the same as doing a live action film. I can use a set for a scene or even more than one scene. Each scene can last up to 5 minutes. Over the course of the film, I will have many different sets. Probably more sets than a casual user uses ever. But you are talking about the difference between someone who uses Daz for production and someone who just uses it for a hobby. A professional user will always spend more money and there is no way to get around it, short of creating your own sets, in which case you will just be spending money in a different (and maybe more costly) way. Some people's time is more costly than the price of a set in the market.
Wait, I'm actually confused. I watch plenty of videos that have very little going on in the background and I don't care because what I'm watching the characters. But these are straight-up 2d animation (or faked 2d animation)-- were you saying that those are the only videos people will watch without a lot of busy activity? I also know a lot of 2d animation is less than 30 fps...
It IS true I don't rewatch those videos endlessly, though....
A good filmmaker will show in the background only what needs to be seen to tell the story. Anything else is a distraction. Sometimes a distraction is needed because the story is weak. That is a sign of a poorly made video. Everything in the frame should serve the characters in the foreground and the story. Anything else is just frivolous. I think that applies even more so in animation because any extra scenery means extra work for the artist. Oh, and 24fps seems good and cinematic for my purposes.
Whether it is a "daily" sale or a month long sales event, the PAs featured on any given day are PAs with a new release on that day. Exceptions to that are few and far between. To be annoyed that some PAs are never on sale is to be annoyed that some PAs are not producing new content. To be fair, that's on the PA, not Daz.
Some PAs are no longer with us, like Draagonstorm, but Daz continues to make their content available and even discounts their stores during event sales like this one.
And before you think I'm blindly defending Daz, there are a number of issues where Daz and I strongly disagree.
But in this instance, I think a PA has every right to have their back catalog featured when they have a new release, (even if they are as productive as a couple of bunnies.)
I agree with OP. It's gettings quite annoying every day to look new G8 items that I don't want, knowing that I'd have to buy those in order to get better discounts for old G3 content. So pay $15 for something I don't want to get $2 off for something I could use. I'm not business major or anything, but even I know that's not a good deal.
And while we are at it, I think that marketing guy should demand new website search functionality immediately. It's just ridiculous that Daz shop don't have more filters than they currently have. At minimum, there should be a filter that shows products that support Iray render engine. For example in today's mega fast grab most of the PAs have nothing new published for a decade, and to find out if there's any Iray products you have to go through all that old junk. When I was finally throught that list, I took a quick look at my shopping cart and just cleared it. I had already lost my impulse to buy anything, and I was bored to death.
I think DAZ does its best to balance out the sales with Flash Sales, the Daily Sale and Fast Grab. That they don't seem to be succeeding wiht some people is not something I can find an easy answer for.
The megafastgrabs are still 65% off with nothing else in the cart. That's not a bad sale to start with! If they're all in there (like today) you can get them all now. You said you're PC+ - the Sci-fi Cargo ship should still be in New Releases. $3 will boost the fastgrabs up to 75% off. That's really hard to argue with.
Are you starting with checking your wishlist? Those items in the Mega FastGrab will be showing up as steeply discounted and easy to spot. (If all you wanted are Iray compatible, that's what you should have in your wishlist.) I do understand the frustration though, as there are probably things you didn't wishlist, and/or would consider if the price was really low like 75% off. So that's an excellent suggestion!
G8 content works on G3 figures, with just a very little bit of fiddling. For hair and wardrobe content, take a look at SY's [Tutorial] Convert Clothing G3 to G8, G8 to G3. G3 and G8 use the same UVs, too, (male to male, female to female,) so the skin materials are pretty much interchangable between the two generations. And with a bit more work, Redz tutorial available in the Morphs from G3 to G8 thread will show you how to create shape morphs for G3 to G8. It's really a simple matter to reverse that and create shape morphs from G8 to G3. I've bought very little for G8, but when I do, it's with the knowledge I can use what I've bought on G3 as well.
Iray was introduced with Daz Studio 4.8 in mid-2015. You can pretty much assume anything released prior to that does not have Iray materials. That doesn't mean it won't work in Iray. You can apply the Iray Uber Base and then use any number of Iray shaders to update almost any older product. If you don't apply Iray Uber Base, and just render in Iray, DS applies it before rendering. Many of the older products look reasonably good in iray with no work at all. Just load into the scene and render as usual.
Take a quick look at Hidden Treasures- Fun with Older Sets for a number of sets that have been converted and used with Iray. There are some real gems in "all that old junk."
Last but not least, there is a 30-day money back guarantee. If you buy something in the sale that turns out to not work well enough to suit you, just return it.
Wow, I actually agree with drzap. Not that I'm a good (or even passable ) filmmaker, but I do notice when people have in their films or renders a lot of background stuff that detracts from what you're watching. Especially the Poser-type renders, people seem to love to put 100 things in their scenes, all in focus.
BTW drzap, you keep hinting you're involved in some professional level studio-type production work. Is there something we can watch and show others the great stuff that can be done in Studio?
I am (or was) an amateur filmmaker until I found myself stuck in China without access to any technical or acting talent. This forced me into computer animation. So for the last 3 months I have been learning the tools of the trade. So I am a neophyte. My body of work is in live action film. I came to this forum hoping Daz could solve my actor problems, but Daz has serious animation problems of its own, so I don't work in Daz Studio. This may change, since I heard the next DS will fix some issues with mocap animation, but even then I will use more Daz assets than Daz Studio. It's just too lightweight for my production needs.
I honestly would need to see a clip of this 60 frames per second video, using all this new content, for most of these arguments to make sense to me.
It still sounds like some special needs that are imposed by the imagaination of the user/buyer and relate little towards how videos are made and/or Daz sales practices.
Making content or rolling your own is a stretch. No one suggests that to any one else in any other field.
BUT- there are a million tricks to stretching your purchases as stated above. Buy 1 item, learn how to shade/color it. Playing with just the parameter settings can change the look of numerous objects.
Same room with props added/subtracted and rearrahnged does wonders. Look at how many movie sets are the same space, just redressed.
There are SOOOO many pitfalls with the sales system, bundled items and special deals are LOW on the list.