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Despite Studio's Popularity, People Still See 'Poser Art'

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  • VadrusVadrus Posts: 47
    ebergerly said:

    Not sure I agree.

    It's *their* site. They own it. They pay for it. None of us is entitled to anything from them. I know with the "internet mentality" we all think that everything's free and we are entitled to everything for free.

    Keep in mind that somebody pays for the site. And it can be expensive. And they want a certain audience, for whatever reason. I dont' blame them. Maybe they get more income from a certain user base, and without that they wouldn't have enough income to continue. I don't know. But if YOU owned a website and needed to make income from it, you'd probably do something similar to make sure your business survived. 

    Keep in mind...NOTHING is really free. Somebody pays for it. And just like you and I, EVERYONE needs to make money to live. It's a good thing. 

    Though they will also still discriminate against you if you pay the 'Pro' monthly subscription!

    It is the general mindset of 'if you haven't built it from scratch then it has no merit' that rankles, they are happy for people to flood post terrible 2D paintings, bad ZBrush sculpts, incomplete 3D projects, etc, but if your work consists of the composition, posing and texturing of existing assets then it suddenly becomes unwelcome.

    What I found most surprising that it is done 'off the record', with nothing in their TOS that says you are doing anything wrong, it is just a value judgement they place on peoples work behind the scenes without the creators being aware of it.

  • a-sennova-sennov Posts: 331
    ebergerly said:
    But if YOU owned a website and needed to make income from it, you'd probably do something similar to make sure your business survived. 

    Then I would state it publicly in site rules, TOS etc instead of silently enforcing it, simple like that. 'Unfair business practices' term is almost universal across the planet.

     

  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255
    edited July 2017

    Why? Why do they owe you anything? Do you state all of YOUR rules publicly?

    Lets say you owned a home. A stranger walks in the front door, sits down and starts watching TV and grabs a beer from your refrigerator. You ask "what the hell are you doing?". His response "well you didn't publicly state in your TOS that I'm not allowed".

    And when you tell him to get the hell out he says "WHAT? Why are you discriminating against me??" 

    It's your house. You paid for it. YOU choose who comes in and who doesn't. It's called "privacy", and I'm sure you and I love that we can control who accesses our home. Or our car. And so on. 

    Why is this different?

    It isn't... 

    Post edited by ebergerly on
  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255
    ebergerly said:
    'Unfair business practices' term is almost universal across the planet.

    How is that an unfair business practice??

    Why do you think they have an obligation to you? Are you entitled to something from them? I just don't understand. Are they taking unfair advantage of you? Are they taking your money and not giving you a product? 

     

  • a-sennova-sennov Posts: 331
    ebergerly said:
    Lets say you owned a home. A stranger walks in the front door, sits down and starts watching TV and grabs a beer from your refrigerator.

    It's your house. You paid for it. YOU choose who comes in and who doesn't.

    So you shoot him in the head. Right?

    Then you open a tavern and start to poison all redheads because you feel it will be better for your 'business model'. And because you don't count redheads as  art... err... humans, right?

    Your 'privacy' and 'rights' end where privacy and rights of other people begin. Internet is not different, we see more and more regulations with each year for social networks, news media sites etc. Sometime it'll come to artstation too.

    OK, it's OT, so done with it.

  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255
    edited July 2017

    Well, I applaud you if you'd let the guy sit there and watch TV and drink your beer and invite his friends over.

    Not many people would. They'd probably ask him nicely to leave. 

    He has no right to be there, correct? Just like you and I have no right to obtain access to millions of websites that are password protected for business reasons. Security reasons. Confidentiality reasons. Protecting assets and intellectual property. Serving the needs of their user base. Should there be laws requiring ALL businesses to make all of their websites available to the public? 

    I'm sure if you owned a business you'd fight that.

    And with your tavern analogy...you realize that businesses have a right to refuse to serve people who they think will interfere with their business correct? If you're drunk and disorderly, and so on. It's a good thing. 

    Post edited by ebergerly on
  • drzapdrzap Posts: 795
    edited July 2017
    a-sennov said:
    Vadrus said:
     

    I understand if you might feel frustrated or cheated by this. This is just how we roll

    So when you made a cool car model, want to showcase it and put Vicky at the steering wheel - oups?... Nice site.

    Perhaps you aren't aware of the primary purpose of artstation.com.   Mainly, it's used by digital art students and FX professionals to display their work, sort of like a digital portfolio.  Prospective employers want to see the work of the artist, whether it be modeling, texturing, illustration or matte painting.  It's really not the place for poser art.  Most art from Daz/Poser isn't the result of the creator's own modeling.  If they textured the model, it probably involved little more than pushing a button or turning dial presets, and the props were bought from the asset store, thus not the work of the creator.  You can easily see why this type of art isn't welcome in a forum where leaders in the industry want to see original work.  They are not looking for pretty pictures.  They are looking for talent in creating original content.  Unless you are a content creator, your work would be out of place there and more importantly, their customer base would have to sift through the "posers" to get to those who are legitimate prospects.  As ebergerly wrote, not good for business.

    Post edited by drzap on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,049
    edited July 2017

    I might have to put one of my crappy Zbrush sculpts up there then cheeky

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    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • VadrusVadrus Posts: 47
    drzap said:
    a-sennov said:
    Vadrus said:
     

    I understand if you might feel frustrated or cheated by this. This is just how we roll

    So when you made a cool car model, want to showcase it and put Vicky at the steering wheel - oups?... Nice site.

    Perhaps you aren't aware of the primary purpose of artstation.com.   Mainly, it's used by digital art students and FX professionals to display their work, sort of like a digital portfolio.  Prospective employers want to see the work of the artist, whether it be modeling, texturing, illustration or matte painting.  It's really not the place for poser art.  Most art from Daz/Poser isn't the result of the creator's own modeling.  If they textured the model, it probably involved little more than pushing a button or turning dial presets, and the props were bought from the asset store, thus not the work of the creator.  You can easily see why this type of art isn't welcome in a forum where leaders in the industry want to see original work.  They are not looking for pretty pictures.  They are looking for talent in creating original content.  Unless you are a content creator, your work would be out of place there and more importantly, their customer base would have to sift through the "posers" to get to those who are legitimate prospects.  As ebergerly wrote, not good for business.

    And as I've received several professional enquires about producing images for companies, including oddly a fine art gallery, not everyone there shares the sites creators views.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085
    edited July 2017

    nm

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,685

    This is veering off-topic and degenerating into arguments, please drop it.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,722
    ebergerly said:

    Why? Why do they owe you anything? Do you state all of YOUR rules publicly?

    Lets say you owned a home. A stranger walks in the front door, sits down and starts watching TV and grabs a beer from your refrigerator. You ask "what the hell are you doing?". His response "well you didn't publicly state in your TOS that I'm not allowed".

    And when you tell him to get the hell out he says "WHAT? Why are you discriminating against me??" 

    It's your house. You paid for it. YOU choose who comes in and who doesn't. It's called "privacy", and I'm sure you and I love that we can control who accesses our home. Or our car. And so on. 

    Why is this different?

    It isn't... 

    There are so many laws against a person doing that in your home or even in your yard. There is a sidewalk / right of way near the street for passers-by and there are rules for profressional meter-readers and such but that is it.

    Everybody else is a visitor that must announce their arrival or wait in a common area outside if you are not home.

    As far as artstation.com goes having never visited there til now I honestly see can't see that big a difference between most of the art in the Trending section and DAZ / Poser art in the DAZ Gallery, especially postworked art like by ShibaShake. It's a limitation and style made evident by the technology used more than an individual person's style that unifies those pieces in my eye. They are all really good. The big difference I see is there seem to be no 'sexy woman' art images but there are still plenty of 'nearly naked woman warrior' art images. 

    Maybe the point of ArtStation is to built and promote a portfolio for 3D art freelancing of artists' complete models of which then it wouldn't make sense to allow DAZ or Poser art images but they should say so.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,707

    The conversation was asked to get dropped so please do so

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 12,454

    With any site's practices, it's always a good idea to go and read their TOS before jumping into a discussion.  If you have issue with their TOS, just as at the Daz forums, you should contact their site admins.

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388

    "Poser art", to me was always in the elbows.  Past versions of Poser and even DAZ figures had that oddly-bending weird thing on the inside of the elbows.  It was most prevalent in Victoria 4 and earlier female figures.  Fortunately, that went away, yay!

  • SPACECHIMPSPACECHIMP Posts: 212

    I was abit worried about posting Daz art on artstation,but I have not had any problems some people are liking it and some dont.I did not know i was being discriminated against on artstation,it does not really bother me as i understand people put a lot of work into the zbrush models.I think Daz to me is more like photography and i have learned so much about lighting and composition.I do have to say alot of the poser/daz art i see on deviant art offends me (not just the porn ,but how bad it is ) Daz is a great tool people should respect and learn to use it properly.

     scribbles.artstation.com

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,722
    SPACECHIMP said:

    I was abit worried about posting Daz art on artstation,but I have not had any problems some people are liking it and some dont.I did not know i was being discriminated against on artstation,it does not really bother me as i understand people put a lot of work into the zbrush models.I think Daz to me is more like photography and i have learned so much about lighting and composition.I do have to say alot of the poser/daz art i see on deviant art offends me (not just the porn ,but how bad it is ) Daz is a great tool people should respect and learn to use it properly.

     scribbles.artstation.com

    https://scribbles.artstation.com/projects/DV0VR?album_id=75156

    That is the best 3D portrayal of an old person I've seen!

  • SPACECHIMPSPACECHIMP Posts: 212

    Thank you so much nonesuch00 it was nice of you to take the time to view.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,722
    SPACECHIMP said:

    Thank you so much nonesuch00 it was nice of you to take the time to view.

    They are all good but I like the I'm not Scary Clown too.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    bluejaunte said:

    Also worth mentioning that the term "art" ist thrown around very loosely in the CG industry. Someone who scans and cleans up a stone, gets it into a game engine with a proper shader is considered an artist and the stone a piece of art. Nobody would claim that this stone has any artistic value in the traditional sense, it's just a tiny piece that might end up in a dark corner of a game.

    What is artistic value?

    Art has many purposes.

    Value is determined by those viewing and in particular choosing to buy, or spend some time with or on it.

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