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mankinis, more mankini!!
Lack of realistic wrinkles is one of the reasons I'm learning how to use a 3D sculpting program.
It's super easy to export a clothing item, add some wrinkles, then import it back into Daz as a morph for the clothing item.
Here's some wrinkles I added to the Basic Wear G3F shorts (before and after):
It took like 3 minutes and if you save it as a Morph Asset you have the morph forever for that item.
I definitely recommend learning how to do morphs for clothing for anyone interested in more realism in their 3D art. It can be frustrating learning a new program, but it can also be quite fun (as I'm finding out). :)
You can do a lot with a cloth sim. Someone mentioned VWD. I use it with the latest DAZ Studio and it works awesomely. One of my favorite features is the "scale" feature that allows you to shrink the clothing mesh so that it realistically fits the character, and it even gives you the stretchy folds that occur in real fabric. I think much of the folds in real life fabric can be reproduced in a cloth sim, EXCEPT for the folds you see when a shirt has been lying in a heap for a week and needs to be ironed.
Those folds are due to the paper-like properties of cloth where it crinkles and folds. Cloth sims model cloth as weights and springs, but real cloth also has whatever those paper-like properties are. Not sure the name of them, though...
And from my experience a cloth sim will also simulate the bunching up of cloth at say an elbow joint, if you choose the right settings. So dynamic folds I think are covered by cloth sims, but not static, paper-like folds. And I think the static, paper-like folds are more the job of bump maps, normal maps, and displacement maps.
Now of course there are some limitations with cloth sims, depending on how dense the mesh is and all the settings. Maybe you can't get the exact look you want. But I think you can get pretty close.
Maybe I'll do some example folding simulations or something
Okay I did a real quick VWD simulation using the Vogue Gown from the store. The two images show how it gives very realistic hanging folds (around the legs and feet), realistic bunching up folds on the floor, and a realistic bending fold as the arm folds at the elbow. This was a 2 second animation that started from a T-pose and the arm bended at the elbow.
By the way, the cloth started out with zero folds, so everything you see was generated from the cloth sim.
Yeah, you can tweak it to get different looks, but this was a 20 minute attempt just to show the basics.
Oh, you're such a spoilsport
I think there is a middle path that some people could find useful. All this talk of JCMs and hours of work is only necessary if you want physically accurate wrinkles that animate realistically. I expect most people don't need physically accurate wrinkles, they just want something that looks believable. And I expect most Daz Studio users don't do much animation. I think Fauvist's method could provide this with a bit more work on the map. Yes it is more work to do but not as much as the complicated methods described in this thread.
And here's a closeup GIF of an elbow bend, with a bit more detail and self collision turned on...
...move along...nothing happening here...
Wow so the 50th Most Popular item in the DAZ Store currently means it has sold only 278 copies. I'm disappointed for the PAs in that case, not that I thought any of you are challenging Warren Buffet.
Here's a very poorly and hastily done combination of a cloth sim for dynamic wrinkles and a bump map for static wrinkles.
Yeah, I fear it's very difficult for people to make a living with the internet. The new economy is all about somebody providing free software in the hopes people will use it as a platform to buy stuff. But I think we've gotten so used to getting free software that it's more and more difficult for people to buy anything software related. We tend to expect free software, and push back on stuff that we need to pay for. I mentioned before the Blender guy who has provided excellent free tutorials for years, and as soon as he advertises some of his pay products people get upset. We feel entitled to free stuff for some reason. And I think the economy relies on there being an entire world of people connected together in order to find a few who are willing to pay for stuff.
Heck, just this week I downloaded for free a world class video editing software, free D|S, free Google Earth, free video players, free browser, and on and on.
Be interesting to see how that plays out in the future. Whether that economy can really survive.
That being said, go to the store and buy something
Well because of the cling / drape problem in different poses with autofit most wrinkles that are created in clothing are only of use in the pose they were created in and so I don't blame PAs for not adding a lot of wrinkles that will often make a product look worse in most poses. Autofit is wondrous magic but there is no substitute for draping and wrinkling based on the physics of the current pose even if it is very simplified physics simulation.
One could always autofit the clothing, set the characters pose then import them into VWD and do a static drape for a second to put some quick wrinkles in the outfit.
I would have expected that one to be a big seller. I am quite happy to be one of those 278 purchasers, and quite happy with the product. That it hasn't sold well just blows my mind.
People want quality, yet aren't prepared (often) to pay for it; I too suffer from this, I'm not saying I am exempt, although I do try to support what I think look to be well made products - but they have to be something I need/want/can use.
SickleYield's post actually adds weight I feel to an argument that it is time Studio evolved, and that cloth dynamics were the norm, not a niche; there is room for conforming clothing as it is quick and can serve a purpose; it is unusual for it to be both quick and look good outside of the 'skimp-wear' and not always there either.
I don't use cloth without passing it through VWD; even 'skimpwear' gets checked when I use it to see if draping adds anything - and often does.
Hopefully Daz is paying attention and either adds cloth dynamics to the current version of studio or Daz Studio 5
Cloth dynamics are already in DS, you just need to know how to use it and have the right plugins to get the most out of it. like nicstt, I use dynamics in nearly every scene.
I don't always need dynamics, but I find it particularly useful with shoulder strap outfits (bikinis, bras, etc) and with long flowy skirts and dresses.
But I usually try conforming and then unfit and manually fiddle with it (scaling, dialing hidden morphs, collision) to see if I can get a decent result.
Aeon Soul does really amazing morph/drape stuff with their clothes. But they don't release very often, presumably they take a long time to produce and I'm doubting if they live on their income. Oh, and they're expensive. But man, that new skirt for g3 that came out right before g8 is SO GOOD it's one reason I haven't bought into G8 yet.
I agree, I used to, but have found that dynamics saves time in the long run; the time spent messing with conforming, can be spent with dynamics.
The tricky bit is stuff like suits, where you need some stuff to stick to other stuff
You mean like "nail to collision"?
Or even better if you are doing a still, Fix in place (or something like that) where it doesn't even attempt to move those verts. As sometimes nail to collision still slides a bit.
Well, sure, but you spend 10 mins getting all that stuff done, run sim, realize you missed something or some setting isn't quite right, redo all of the previous over and over...
Isn't this what Dynamic Cloth and Skin are for?
I'm not sure this is a fair assessment. The product you speak of is exclusive to the brand new Genesis 8 that's only been out a month or so. There are still tons of people who have not jumped to G8...like me. Since I do not use G8, I have exactly zero interest in G8 products, and I am sure that I am not alone. But I did buy your most recent tutorial video last week, so I hope I helped you a little bit there! I also wonder if your past products which contain some loin clothes may have hurt you, since G8 can just as easily wear those. It may be something that users simply didn't think they needed this item for G8. I wonder if you had created this later in G8's life (when more people were on board G8) if it would have sold more.
BTW, having watched a couple of your tutorial videos on youtube and such, I think you have a great voice for these videos. If by chance this whole Daz thing doesn't work out maybe you could launch a career in radio or stream your Skyrim playthroughs, LOL.
Another note, if Daz had a dynamic cloth system built in, then the PA's would not even need to think about adding any JCM's.
Its a double edged sword, some users want creative products that are outside the box, but PA's want to make a living and are afraid of taking such risks. I think when it comes to things like this, perhaps there can be a middle ground. Rather than people who depend on this for their income, maybe somebody who is not dependent on Daz could make items like this. Somebody who can afford to take the chances that others cannot. It would be possible for that person to get attention, build goodwill, and create a following. I immediately think of George in this regard. Deepsea basically came out of nowhere and released something this site has never seen before. We practically have a "Cult of George" now. George was first product they ever released on Daz. That is exactly the kind of PA that can do things like this.
This got me really thinking. I mean, I liked the promo pics, and I check Daz pretty much every day, and still I couldn't even remember that product. Then I thought why I didn't buy it, and finally it hit me. Here's couple of top picks from what's hot list for clothing items, and those probably tell more than my ramblings: https://www.daz3d.com/devil-may-deluxe-hair-for-genesis-2-3-8-female-s , https://www.daz3d.com/angels-secrets-lingerie-and-poses-for-genesis-3-and-8-female-s , https://www.daz3d.com/school-sports-outfits-for-genesis-3-female-s and https://www.daz3d.com/pretty-base-next-generation-bundle . All of those support Genesis 3 Females, while your product is G8 only. I understand that it's extra work to make G3 support, and your time is valuable, but so is your customers. I don't know for others, but I will never pay premium price for a product, that does not support the generation I use. Maybe when it's 60% off I'll take my chance, but not before that. Well, in most cases only way for a customer to get his message through is to vote with his wallet, and maybe that's the case here...
If you have read forums lately, there's been quite a lot of talk about new Victoria and G8 in general. Some don't like the appearance of new Vicky, and therefore haven't upgraded. Then there's those, who have spent thousands of dollars in their library, and are not willing to start from scratch knowing that new G8 does not really offer anything ground breaking. Also some people are waiting for Zev0 products to arrive, and some just wait for Genesis 8 Male before they are willing to upgrade. In any case, a quite big group of your customers have not upgraded yet, and they are probably not willing to buy G8 only product.
Well, what can you do? I assume hard part is already done, since rigging, materials and meshes are done, so maybe you could return to that product, and give it a G3F support. Then release it again as a G3F product, and throw in a bundle option also. I believe for PAs it's more than just use autofit or whatever, since DAZ probably expects support for all major G3F Daz figures, but how long that would take. A day, 3 days, 5 days or more? I don't know, but if you have already spent a month on this, maybe it's worth trying. If nothing else, at least you know how big portion of your customer base is still using G3, and you can use that information in your future products.
That's a Poser thing, right? Many of us don't use Poser.
The male Egyptian skirt took me two months to rig. It's about as close as you can get to dynamic with a conforming model.. but it took 47 JCMs JUST FOR THE THIGHS! I won't be doing that again, sorry, I have a husband and 4 fur-babies to feed and house.
VWD is a great dynamic resource for Daz. However, it means users are at the vagaries of however much VWD AND the bridge AND compatibility is sustained over time.
Having something integrated or officially supported by Daz would be helpful. Among other things, I'd love to see something along the lines of clothes being sold with preset dynamic elements, like stiffness, attachment, rigidity, etc so that it will drape properly with minimal fuss.
Right now, Optitex is too limited and VWD requires a lot of invention from the ground up.