ENOUGH Sexy Bikini Women

nicstt

timmins.william said:

Also useful, the sim will ignore hidden surfaces. This is particularly useful if you have stuff that clips together.

The ability to drape, send the pose, save, then drape with different colliders is fantastically useful.

 

VWD could also really use material presets.

It could but there is a problem there; because it can convert and drape any cloth, it would need 'know' the geometry count of each part, then calculate the relationships.

As an example (presuming my thoughts and understanding are correct): Set Cotton Preset > VWD then has to work out what cotton is from the geometry in the mesh, and very often different parts have different densities, so each of those is 'cotton' but with different amounts of geometry. I don't think it is impossible, but it would be interesting to code, and I expect that the calculations would add some to the times.

kaotkbliss

nicstt said:

timmins.william said:

Also useful, the sim will ignore hidden surfaces. This is particularly useful if you have stuff that clips together.

The ability to drape, send the pose, save, then drape with different colliders is fantastically useful.

 

VWD could also really use material presets.

It could but there is a problem there; because it can convert and drape any cloth, it would need 'know' the geometry count of each part, then calculate the relationships.

As an example (presuming my thoughts and understanding are correct): Set Cotton Preset > VWD then has to work out what cotton is from the geometry in the mesh, and very often different parts have different densities, so each of those is 'cotton' but with different amounts of geometry. I don't think it is impossible, but it would be interesting to code, and I expect that the calculations would add some to the times.

Actually, it probably wouldn't be quite that difficult. VWD already has the ability to select verts based on material zones of the UV map, so the presets could be added there. Select your material zone -> select the preset to use

I always do this to select hard surfaces in an outfit and rigidify them so they don't warp when draping.

nicstt

kaotkbliss said:

nicstt said:

timmins.william said:

Also useful, the sim will ignore hidden surfaces. This is particularly useful if you have stuff that clips together.

The ability to drape, send the pose, save, then drape with different colliders is fantastically useful.

 

VWD could also really use material presets.

It could but there is a problem there; because it can convert and drape any cloth, it would need 'know' the geometry count of each part, then calculate the relationships.

As an example (presuming my thoughts and understanding are correct): Set Cotton Preset > VWD then has to work out what cotton is from the geometry in the mesh, and very often different parts have different densities, so each of those is 'cotton' but with different amounts of geometry. I don't think it is impossible, but it would be interesting to code, and I expect that the calculations would add some to the times.

Actually, it probably wouldn't be quite that difficult. VWD already has the ability to select verts based on material zones of the UV map, so the presets could be added there. Select your material zone -> select the preset to use

I always do this to select hard surfaces in an outfit and rigidify them so they don't warp when draping.

Yes, it does, but it isn't just about selecting the material zones. First determine what is cotton for a given number of verts; this would also depend on density too though? Then calculate the difference on the supplied verts, which also depends on density.

Density would relate to the size of the mesh, but a sheet (as an example) may give the illusion of being less dense than a toga (basically the same sheet wrapped around a body)?

This seems, to me, like it would have an effect.

So if you set it to cotton, do you want it to behave like cotton, regardless of mesh density, or do you want that taken into consideration? Fun to code /nod

Ascania

divamakeup said:

Morana said:

My problem with VWD is it is flipping expensive when I convert to USD.  "Just get VWD" is great for someone who has the budget for it and will get solid use out of it.  I just play in Studio when my hobby time allows, so I can't justify $100+ on VWD even though I miss dynamics and used to clothify everything in Poser.

I agree. To use it with Daz you need the plug-in/add-on and together, as nonesuch00 pointed out, it's $70. That's just too far above my budget. And, sadly, that "other store" doesn't get the deep discounts that we sometimes get here. While it does occasionally go on sale, the sales usually aren't really a big discount.

I'm really hoping that Daz will evenutally get it's own version - and hopefully cheaper.

Am I missing something? VWD shows on Rendo at $40 and the DS bridge at $10. That's $50 together.

Leana

Ascania said:

divamakeup said:

Morana said:

My problem with VWD is it is flipping expensive when I convert to USD.  "Just get VWD" is great for someone who has the budget for it and will get solid use out of it.  I just play in Studio when my hobby time allows, so I can't justify $100+ on VWD even though I miss dynamics and used to clothify everything in Poser.

I agree. To use it with Daz you need the plug-in/add-on and together, as nonesuch00 pointed out, it's $70. That's just too far above my budget. And, sadly, that "other store" doesn't get the deep discounts that we sometimes get here. While it does occasionally go on sale, the sales usually aren't really a big discount.

I'm really hoping that Daz will evenutally get it's own version - and hopefully cheaper.

Am I missing something? VWD shows on Rendo at $40 and the DS bridge at $10. That's $50 together.

It was more expensive on release IIRC.

ebergerly

Yeah a couple weeks ago they announced on the Rendo VWD forum they dropped the price t0 $50. Which I think is super reasonable based on what you get. 

nonesuch00

Ascania said:

divamakeup said:

Morana said:

My problem with VWD is it is flipping expensive when I convert to USD.  "Just get VWD" is great for someone who has the budget for it and will get solid use out of it.  I just play in Studio when my hobby time allows, so I can't justify $100+ on VWD even though I miss dynamics and used to clothify everything in Poser.

I agree. To use it with Daz you need the plug-in/add-on and together, as nonesuch00 pointed out, it's $70. That's just too far above my budget. And, sadly, that "other store" doesn't get the deep discounts that we sometimes get here. While it does occasionally go on sale, the sales usually aren't really a big discount.

I'm really hoping that Daz will evenutally get it's own version - and hopefully cheaper.

Am I missing something? VWD shows on Rendo at $40 and the DS bridge at $10. That's $50 together.

Oh, they've cut the price on the DAZ bridge by $5 that is good. There is another bridge for Carrara that you need not buy and that was the source of the other $15. Since both the Carrara and DAZ Studio bridges are by the same author it is likely $10 now too so now the cost of buying all 3 products would be $60.

RadioactiveLily

My cost complaint is based on the fact that I'm a foreign buyer having to buy in USD.  It adds a substantial mark-up that most of you don't have to deal with.

Roman_K2

Fauvist said:

I spend HOURS painting wrinkles and folds in Photoshop and Painter over the top of DAZ clothing.

Very interesting!  "Painter" as in Substance Painter, or are you referring to something else?

This probably goes nowhere but I enjoy playing with Silly Putty(TM) to try and understand certain shapes and stresses - roll a few "eggs" of it out, very thin, onto a firm, non-stick surface. Carefully lift the resulting "sheet" of putty up: it kind of behaves like drapery, positioned as it is halfway between liquid and solid. Note: the "folds" don't last long and this idea works better in a cooler room than a warm one.

As to what would sell or not sell, I usually appreciate models with extra, optional props and attention to detail... I would be inclined to pay extra for a few built-in morphs, here and there even if it doesn't work 100 percent of the time from all angles. And please let me be the judge as to how "strong" the distortion or displacement should be, or to what distance or extent the morph should go.

kyoto kid

FSMCDesigns said:

josephlemons69_4db0991b45 said:

nicstt said:

People want quality, yet aren't prepared (often) to pay for it; I too suffer from this, I'm not saying I am exempt, although I do try to support what I think look to be well made products - but they have to be something I need/want/can use.

SickleYield's post actually adds weight I feel to an argument that it is time Studio evolved, and that cloth dynamics were the norm, not a niche; there is room for conforming clothing as it is quick and can serve a purpose; it is unusual for it to be both quick and look good outside of the 'skimp-wear' and not always there either.

I don't use cloth without passing it through VWD; even 'skimpwear' gets checked when I use it to see if draping adds anything - and often does.

Hopefully Daz is paying attention and either adds cloth dynamics to the current version of studio or Daz Studio 5 

Cloth dynamics are already in DS, you just need to know how to use it and have the right plugins to get the most out of it. like nicstt, I use dynamics in nearly every scene.

...however it is "closed loop" in being it only works for clothing content specifically created with the Optitex Software which would cost more than most (if not all) of us here could ever afford.  You cannot use it on other clothing products, only a "full" open cloth dynamics engine would allow for that.

For now VWD looks to be the a good solution (and one I am saving up for). 

kyoto kid

timmins.william said:

All users have access to the basic function of Optitex dynamic clothing, which requires you to buy specifically designed Optitex dynamic clothing.

There's also a control panel to unlock more functions.

There's also VWD on Rendo, which is a bit more expensive but allows you to use any clothing/item/hair/fruit bats/ningy as dynamic stuff.

 

...so I could create a Dali like universe with all sorts of melted and draped items?  Super.

kyoto kid

Ice Dragon Art said:

And now that I have gotten VWD to work on my slightly different system set up, I find that even without having had time to really dig into and some issues with running out of memory on stuff that has a lot of polygons or vertices or whatever it is that its counting, its definitely something that I will be incorporating much more often.  This dress was draped with VWD.  No way could a vendor every put enough of anything into a dress to make it do this without some kind of cloth sim.  Not their fault, its just a limitation of how the software works.

...that is really good.

DaWaterRat

I know the conversation has drifted to dynamics, but I just have to point out the latest (and imo, greatest) character for Gensis 8 Female

https://www.daz3d.com/ms-hedgehog-for-genesis-8-female

If I weren't broke, I'd totally get her right now.  Be my first offiical G8F purchase since launch.

3Diva

I think I have a kind of solution for the wrinkles (or lack of). Bring a Body Suit into a 3D sculpting program (Blender, Sculptris, ZBrush, Hexagon, whatever you have) and add some wrinkles. You can then have the clothing "collide" with the body suit (change the Collision Item to the body suit), dial in your wrinkle morphs, hide the body suit, and there you go! Wrinkles! I did four morphs to the body suit - Elbow Wrinkles, Armpit Wrinkles, Back of Knee Wrinkles, and ...erm "Crotch" Wrinkles. 

You can add more than just those four morphs of course. 

It works pretty well - at least for skin tight clothing. You can dial the wrinkles in as low or as high as you want them.

Here's a couple before and after:

 

  

 

These were just quick and messy morphs to see if it would make a difference. I could get better results if I spent more than like 10 minutes on it. lol But I just wanted to put that out there for anyone who might be interested in using this method to add wrinkles to clothing. With this method, you only have to make a few morphs for one article of clothing (the body suit - in this case I used the V4 body suit) and it will be useable with any skin tight outfit. It's not perfect, but I think it helps. :)

kaotkbliss

Excellent Idea with the bodysuit!

Now I just need someone to release a morph set for the bodysuits as I'm no good at modeling at all

IceDragonArt

kyoto kid said:

Ice Dragon Art said:

And now that I have gotten VWD to work on my slightly different system set up, I find that even without having had time to really dig into and some issues with running out of memory on stuff that has a lot of polygons or vertices or whatever it is that its counting, its definitely something that I will be incorporating much more often.  This dress was draped with VWD.  No way could a vendor every put enough of anything into a dress to make it do this without some kind of cloth sim.  Not their fault, its just a limitation of how the software works.

...that is really good.

Thanks!  The draping definitely makes it more believable.

caravelle

SickleYield said:

Clothes with wrinkles take longer to make.  Time is money.  This has some realistic folds, took nearly a month to make with getting all the morphs and JCMs done, and has so far sold 278 copies and my cut has been about $1600.  $1600 in a month (before taxes) will not cover my mortgage and car payment, let alone internet, phone, gas, food, etc.  Fortunately for me I had something else out in that same time period, and Daz put some things on sale that boosted my catalog sales.  I did all right, but I can't afford to do that often unless I bust my butt to also get a smaller product out in the same timeframe.  And I don't even have kids to support, just a whiny cat.

If I made a whole suit, with multiple pieces and enough morphs for me to consider it finished, and it's possible that I may, it will probably cost $30 because it could easily take two to three months to get made and through QA.  This is not an exaggeration.

And then I will be competing with Daz Originals that cost less than $10, go on sale all the time, and have limited folds and wrinkles (because the artist had to get them done super fast, not because they're not talented).  Then thousands of people buy the cheaper one and complain instead of the more expensive one that took longer.  And I have no incentive to ever make any larger clothing set because it takes too long.  The entire reason I did loincloths and not a suit to begin with is that rigging sleeves/pants is harder and takes longer, and people will buy the skimpy thing.

This is why I mostly don't make clothes any more.  I need a product out every 1-2 weeks.

I am among those 278, and I was delighted when I saw all those wonderful, realistic morphs. Thank you for your excellent work. I would like to buy 'normal' clothes with such realistic morphs!

ebergerly

I guess I'm still not sure what the issue/difficulty is. You can use a cloth sim like VWD and then easily use the results to make morphs. It just seems like a lot of unnecessary work to do it manually and try to make it look realistic, rather than have the cloth sim calculate what's actually realistic. 

I guess I've seen so many ZBrush videos where people spend hours doing manual wrinkles based on just their guess as to what real wrinkles look like, and the result usually looks way overdone and unnatural. Especially compared to a 5 minute cloth sim. 

Anyway, whatever tool works I suppose.  

exstarsis

Not everybody is enthusiastic about picking up third party software that is buggy, crash prone, pricy and the dev even talks about how hard it is to use. (especially if they've already done that once before and know better what their tolerances are.) Every time I am tempted by VWD, the sales page else-site talks me out of it. 

fastbike1

dreamfarmer said:

Not everybody is enthusiastic about picking up third party software that is buggy, crash prone, pricy and the dev even talks about how hard it is to use. (especially if they've already done that once before and know better what their tolerances are.) Every time I am tempted by VWD, the sales page else-site talks me out of it. 

This ^

ebergerly

Fair enough. I'm a bit surprised about the "buggy, crash prone.." and "...hard to use" parts, but to each his own. 

Oso3D

The initial release was a bit unstable, but I don't think I've had a single crash since the update a few months back.

For what it's worth.

It could be easier to use, but it's not worse than, say, Optitex.

wolf359

"The initial release was a bit unstable, but I don't think I've had a single crash since the update a few months back.
For what it's worth.
It could be easier to use, 
but it's not worse than, say, Optitex."

I tried VWD demo,.. found it utterly unusable on my system.
 I personally get great results with the Daz DCC plugin
and can even export my cloth sims to Other programs for stills & animations
Via the animate2 MDD exporter plugin.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/388511/

 

 

kaotkbliss

ebergerly said:

I guess I'm still not sure what the issue/difficulty is. You can use a cloth sim like VWD and then easily use the results to make morphs. It just seems like a lot of unnecessary work to do it manually and try to make it look realistic, rather than have the cloth sim calculate what's actually realistic. 

I guess I've seen so many ZBrush videos where people spend hours doing manual wrinkles based on just their guess as to what real wrinkles look like, and the result usually looks way overdone and unnatural. Especially compared to a 5 minute cloth sim. 

Anyway, whatever tool works I suppose.  

I tried using the result to make a morph but the geometry doesn't match. How do you do this?

nicstt

The same as when making any morph; the geometry must be the same, so subd and any applied subdivisions via VWD will cause issues.

ebergerly

Yeah you need to use Base mesh resolution. No different than if you export to ZBrush or other to do manual morphs

kaotkbliss

Odd, I never mess with subd

ebergerly

Maybe the base object you're making the morph from is different resolution?

Ademnus

Richard Haseltine said:

You are, I think, confusing two issues - secy clothing, which does sell better than plain clothing, and realistic draping, which is very hard going on impossibly to do in a static model with morphs.

I hear ya and I know artists will gravitate to the sales but as someone who uses these models professionally, I won't really be buying anything for G8 until there's more useful products for them. I can't just populate a world with females in bikinis. It may sound odd but sales in general might increase if we have a reason to invest in these models and moprhs. For instance, I have not bought the new Shape Shift because I currently can't make practical use of G8. Sure, this or that individual product might not sell as well as others but they bring along with them the need for other products many of us just are not investing in now.

exstarsis

timmins.william said:

The initial release was a bit unstable, but I don't think I've had a single crash since the update a few months back.

For what it's worth.

It could be easier to use, but it's not worse than, say, Optitex.

Well, the dev isn't doing his sales any favors. And I've been burned by another crash-prone third party add on that is considered the only available solution for something D|S lacks. And (to be fair) I've wondered if perhaps the demo needs updating too.

(I actually had a windfall lately I considered spending on VWD and ZBrushCore. After some research, did get ZBC but resisted VWD. I'm just too afraid of the learning curve and stories of instability.)