@ DAZ install manager: Why was there a need to create a new "public" default installation location?

1246

Comments

  • inquireinquire Posts: 601
    edited December 1969

    Kerya said:
    Question: is it possible to use it just for downloading?
    And then installing (renaming folders and so on) myself?
    Will it find updated files in this case?


    Edited: default C:\ - are you kidding? My c:\ drive is an SSD ... and I am sure I am not the only person to have an SSD for C: and a "normal" harddrive as D:\ for content.

    No, it will not. At least, that's my understanding. The DIM can only keep track of the files if it has installed them.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 601
    edited December 1969

    I've absolutely ZERO interest in this, because I want to control what and where all my content goes.

    So my question is this - is there any plan to fix the download mess that's been in existence since the new site started, where we can't select JUST windows or JUST mac stuff, and where finding something to redownload is a bit of a challenge? Or is this new shiny toy going to mean "use it or tough luck"?

    The content will move to zips, as I understand it - that was publicly stated some time ago - so there won't be mac and Windows files, just a single zip.

    --------------------------------

    Note that a default path is the one that appears when the thing is first run - Spooky said, on the first page, that users could use a different path if they wished and although I don't think he specified I imagine it will remember the last path used or even keep a list of paths, so once you have told it not to use the C: drive or the Shared folder it should not do so.

    Well, the video for Mac users is very ambiguous about this. Windows users may perhaps have the advantage here.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 601
    edited December 1969

    Acudia3D said:
    I for one would use such a product it will help in keeping your products updated like plugins as there updated.

    Yes, that's what I need: a way of learning which products, which files, have been updated.

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301
    edited December 1969

    inquire said:
    Kerya said:
    Question: is it possible to use it just for downloading?
    And then installing (renaming folders and so on) myself?
    Will it find updated files in this case?


    Edited: default C:\ - are you kidding? My c:\ drive is an SSD ... and I am sure I am not the only person to have an SSD for C: and a "normal" harddrive as D:\ for content.

    No, it will not. At least, that's my understanding. The DIM can only keep track of the files if it has installed them.

    If the downloaded files are still in the downloads folder (and you can change the location of that folder, it doesn't have to be the default location), then DIM can tell if it was updated even if you didn't install it using DIM. It will also tell you about updates if you reorganize or delete the files after installing them.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 601
    edited December 1969

    RojHarris said:
    Thanks Richard, resetting and re-importing metadata worked perfectly. All nice and clean now.

    Cheers
    Roger

    Update: No, its not clean, there are now tons of duplicates.. 2 stephanies, 2 victorias, 2 genesis', etc etc. grrrrr..

    I've been having problems with Duplicates, and I'm not using the DIM. Well, hopefully these errors will eventually be resolved.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 601
    edited December 1969

    DavidGB said:
    WTF?

    1 Have just installed the InstallManager, and it's put folders with .ini files and whatnot in my Public/Documents without asking. Nor can I see any waywithin the installer to change that. That is seriously NOT cool. I have and want NOTHING in my Public/ folders, and no program should force itself in there. This is monstrous behaviour: completely unnacceptable. Those .ini files should be in an AppData, and NO program shoudl insist on being having folders and files in a location like that. But it appears the only way i could move it is with hacking the .ini files in a text editor and maybe the Registry, but that would then screw up updating the software. This is not not not NOT acceptable at all.

    Yes, I was told in PMs with someone that the DIM did that, both for the PC and for the Mac versions. Those files can't be moved, or so I was told.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 601
    edited December 1969

    adamr001 said:
    @DavidGB:

    1. Use a directory junction to redirect the folder anywhere you'd like it. There were O/S limitations (on the Mac) that kept some of that stuff from being customizable.
    2. Install anywhere you please. There's nothing forcing you to use the default directory.
    3. It took me all of overnight to reinstall nearly 4000 items (almost my entire DAZ history) and it was done unattended.

    Uh, what is a "directory junction"? I use a Mac. What were the "O/S limitations"?
    This still does not explain to me how to "Install anywhere."

  • Alisa Uh-LisaAlisa Uh-Lisa Posts: 1,279
    edited February 2013

    For those who are JUST using DIM to simplfy the zip downloading, and do not plan to install them using it, or who want to eliminate their old exe files from their computer and get the zips with DIM, a few things I did that might be useful.

    DIM insists that you keep the .dsx and .zip files in the same folder they were downloaded to. The .dsx file is tiny so that's not a big deal. By the way, you can open those with a text editor.

    However, the zips are another matter - they're huge and maybe you either don't want to keep them on the hard drive and prefer to burn them to cd or dvd, and/or move them elsewhere and/or rename them. I figured out that DIM doesn't care if the file is actually there, just a file with that name.

    So, you can just create an new, empty zip file (in Windows, right click and pick new/compressed (zipped) folder).
    Move the original zip file to another folder.
    Copy the file name from that original zip to your fake one.
    Now your download folder only has a bunch of 1 kb files.

    edit - By the way, apparently the date of the dsx file tells DIM WHEN you downloaded it and it will use that to tell you if there's an update. It doesn't look like you have to actually install the files at all to have DIM say there are updates.

    I tested this by moving just the dsx files to another folder and reopening DIM - it alerted that they were updates AND put new dsx files into the folder. I closed and opened DIM and it still said there were updates to those files. I closed DIM, moved the original ones back to the folder (replacing the ones DIM just put there) and then reopened DIM. It no longer said there were updates.
    .


    From what Spooky said earlier I believe that it the zip's CRC (or similar) key that is used to identify updates, a number derived from the data in the file, not the timestamp. You don't have to keep the zips, but you do need them (or the manifests generated by installing) to get update notifications.

    That's what Spooky said, yes, and I sure could be wrong about what's happening. All I can tell you is that I haven't installed a thing, just played around with moving the zip files (or a blank zip file with the exact name as the original) and the .dsx files in and out of the Download directory. And I found this (when I say a zip file below, I mean even a blank file that has the exact name of the original zip file

    With the original .dsx file and zip file in the Download folder, DIM is happy, It tells me that those files are ready to install.

    If I delete or rename the zip file and leave the original .dsx file, DIM lists the file again as "to be downloaded" as though I'd never downloaded it

    If I delete or rename the .dsx file and leave the zip file, DIM shows that there is an update (in a new section at the top saying available updates) and also creates a new .dsx file.

    Here's the info from the 2 files when I played around with this-using the PC monthly freebie from January. Here's the original .dsx file:








    If I delete or move it, here's the new one created:







    Of course, this is a different issue I guess than having DIM realize there is a REAL updated file, so I guess until there's a file I have already downloaded I won't know EXACTLY what it will do (I think Spooky thought it would just list it in the downloads again as though it had never been downloaded.

    Except that Mike just said this above

    If the downloaded files are still in the downloads folder (and you can change the location of that folder, it doesn't have to be the default location), then DIM can tell if it was updated even if you didn't install it using DIM. It will also tell you about updates if you reorganize or delete the files after installing them.

    Which backs up what I am thinking. You can keep just a blank file with that exact name as the download file in the download folder and fool DIM into thinking it's there and then it WILL give update info.

    But I'm confused now, Richard - are you saying that just having a blank zip file WON'T tell DIM that there are updates ?

    Post edited by Alisa Uh-Lisa on
  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301
    edited December 1969

    I think all Richard was saying was that it isn't the date of the .dsx file, but rather the .dsx file includes the CRC of the .zip file, and DIM uses that to tell if the file has been updated.

  • Alisa Uh-LisaAlisa Uh-Lisa Posts: 1,279
    edited December 1969

    Ah, ok - NOW I get it!!!

    I meant to say it's the dates INSIDE the dsx file, not the date of the actual file itself. Sorry for the confusion!

  • inquireinquire Posts: 601
    edited December 1969

    Well, this may all be getting too technical for me. But, again, all I feel I really need is a way to tell if files that I have, such as those Genesis files which may produce "Duplicate ID" errors, have been updated. Then, I could take it from there, download the files, uninstall the earlier versions, and install the newer versions.

    I'd be happy with that.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,927
    edited December 1969

    >hi pendaria,,

    I never know what daz plan untill it will be released,
    but I can confirm,, You can change default path to your volume, or your select HD,
    (your daz contents folda) when you use the Install manager.
    as you have done so.

    about it do not worry^^

    even though you may need to manually (simply copy and paste, or serch the directory from file window,
    at first time, when use new installer, but after that,, installer can record user default locaiton .

    or you may need not,, I think.. the installer may read .ini file, then auto applied default install path for each user.
    (I hope so,, it is more useful,, and it is not difficult, at all to make so)

    I am not programmer,, but it seems usuall . if the new installer can not change default location,
    DAZ need to apologize every user,, who have changed default location.

    Thank you kitakoredaz that relieves my mind.
  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    inquire said:
    adamr001 said:
    @DavidGB:

    1. Use a directory junction to redirect the folder anywhere you'd like it. There were O/S limitations (on the Mac) that kept some of that stuff from being customizable.
    2. Install anywhere you please. There's nothing forcing you to use the default directory.
    3. It took me all of overnight to reinstall nearly 4000 items (almost my entire DAZ history) and it was done unattended.

    Uh, what is a "directory junction"? I use a Mac. What were the "O/S limitations"?
    This still does not explain to me how to "Install anywhere."

    A directory junction is the same thing as a symbolic link on the mac. It can be achieved with the "ln" command in OSX. Google it if you want to know how to use it. ( e.g. "symbolic link directories osx" )

    Click the gear icon on the DIM, select the "Installation" tab, click the + at the bottom. Specify where you want things to do. Delete the default path. You can also change the download location in a similar fashion.

  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    inquire said:
    I think this is unnecessarily primitive. I'm not trying to offend anyone who worked hard on the DIM. But, what I'm saying is that a new DIM needs to be written, one which can read the files on my computer, check with my account at DAZ3D, and indicate whenever there are updated files. Then, if all it can handle at that point is the download, not the installation, I'll be satisfied. And, like some others, no, I do not want to have to install new files to the /Users/Shared folder [Macintosh].
    Stop a moment and thing about how many millions of files you're talking about. The speed of the process you describe would be horrifically slow.
  • MBuschMBusch Posts: 533
    edited December 1969

    adamr001 said:
    inquire said:
    I think this is unnecessarily primitive. I'm not trying to offend anyone who worked hard on the DIM. But, what I'm saying is that a new DIM needs to be written, one which can read the files on my computer, check with my account at DAZ3D, and indicate whenever there are updated files. Then, if all it can handle at that point is the download, not the installation, I'll be satisfied. And, like some others, no, I do not want to have to install new files to the /Users/Shared folder [Macintosh].
    Stop a moment and thing about how many millions of files you're talking about. The speed of the process you describe would be horrifically slow.

    Think about how many people re-organize the product's files, renaming and moving to their needs before install them. It is impossible to keep track to something as this.

  • PtropePtrope Posts: 463
    edited December 1969

    I think he understands full well what that entails. It's also, frankly, a function that a utility like this should have from the very start, or at least be a part of the plan. DAZ seem to have a very, very bad habit of constantly reinventing the wheel, and when they do, they fail to take into account that the users have very different needs from the programmers. An installation manager that doesn't manage the users' existing installations is less than half-done, and I'm sure that, based on the conversations in this thread, the time that it might take is a price many of us are more than willing to pay in order to compile a dynamic database of what we've purchased, what we've installed, and where it's located (and it probably wouldn't take as long as you think). If they really want to make this utility useful, it will catalog not only the items purchased from DAZ, but also those from 3rd parties, even if it can't install them - it would be enough to at least note them in some way; admittedly, this latter is maybe pushing the envelope, but from a user's standpoint, it's a completely understandable expectation.

    The DIM, like so many other aspects of D|S, is thus far exclusionary, forcing users down paths they don't want to go, placing files where users don't want them placed, and basically hiding its operations in order to create a specific experience that has more to do with what DAZ want to do, not their customers. It's not a good approach for any company that want to be thought of as customer-oriented.

  • roger_8a3dce01bfroger_8a3dce01bf Posts: 2
    edited December 1969

    I've been having problems with Duplicates, and I'm not using the DIM. Well, hopefully these errors will eventually be resolved.

    I fixed my duplicates issues by deleting the .dsf files and keeping the .duf files. (making sure to only do this when there WAS a corresponding .duf)

    Now I don't have any duplicates :)

  • SedorSedor Posts: 1,709
    edited December 1969

    Duplicates often appear when you install both packeges for DS4 and DS4.5 - if you use DIM you just have to check which downloads you want (DS4 or DS4.5).

    If you install to an existing Library and have previously installed the same product with the "old" DS4 files and now with the new DS4.5 files, you will see of course duplicates.

    There's another reason where they could come from: some vendors have put DS4 and DS4.5 together in one package, so you always install both versions.

    If I remember right someone asked what happens if you install to an existing Library... Well, it just works, I am doing this currently with the new products I've bought and they appear fine and without any problems in my runtime.

  • PhoenixdrachePhoenixdrache Posts: 20
    edited December 1969

    I still can download just a small fraction of all the items purchased from me, he does not give me more. Why?


    Do I have now all my items I have purchased from 2004 to 2013 reset manually, or it is possible that the final version of DIM can do that? O.o

    Sorry about my english, if anybody can explain me this DIM - How to and whatever - in German, I will be happy. :)
    This is a translation from google -.-

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,429
    edited December 1969

    DavidGB said:
    ...
    1 Have just installed the InstallManager, and it's put folders with .ini files and whatnot in my Public/Documents without asking. Nor can I see any waywithin the installer to change that. That is seriously NOT cool. I have and want NOTHING in my Public/ folders, and no program should force itself in there. This is monstrous behaviour: completely unnacceptable. Those .ini files should be in an AppData, and NO program shoudl insist on being having folders and files in a location like that. But it appears the only way i could move it is with hacking the .ini files in a text editor and maybe the Registry, but that would then screw up updating the software. This is not not not NOT acceptable at all.
    ...

    And an option to install it somewhere else - I don't install most of my software to C:

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,429
    edited December 1969

    I still can download just a small fraction of all the items purchased from me, he does not give me more. Why?


    Do I have now all my items I have purchased from 2004 to 2013 reset manually, or it is possible that the final version of DIM can do that? O.o

    Sorry about my english, if anybody can explain me this DIM - How to and whatever - in German, I will be happy. :)
    This is a translation from google -.-

    You just will have to wait until they have all the zips created.
    They said they have most of Genesis and V4 items, there is still a lot of things left.
    But they are working on them.

  • PhoenixdrachePhoenixdrache Posts: 20
    edited December 1969

    Thank you Kerya, then I will wait until then! :)

  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    It is what it is; doubt it will change. There are simply too many 'shirt.cr2's that without matching an original, known path to identify.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 601
    edited December 1969

    sedor said:
    Duplicates often appear when you install both packeges for DS4 and DS4.5 - if you use DIM you just have to check which downloads you want (DS4 or DS4.5).

    If you install to an existing Library and have previously installed the same product with the "old" DS4 files and now with the new DS4.5 files, you will see of course duplicates.

    There's another reason where they could come from: some vendors have put DS4 and DS4.5 together in one package, so you always install both versions.

    If I remember right someone asked what happens if you install to an existing Library... Well, it just works, I am doing this currently with the new products I've bought and they appear fine and without any problems in my runtime.

    Could it have happened because some products had a separate metadata file to download. If the product was updated, the metadata might have been added into the base file. But the old metadata file might still have been available for download. I've been thinking that maybe this is what messed me up. Could that be it?

  • inquireinquire Posts: 601
    edited December 1969

    Ptrope said:
    I think he understands full well what that entails

    Yes, I do understand what it entails. I was not thinking of letting the DIM handle all my files, just the Genesis ones until I get rid of the "Duplicate ID errors."

  • inquireinquire Posts: 601
    edited December 1969

    RojHarris said:

    I've been having problems with Duplicates, and I'm not using the DIM. Well, hopefully these errors will eventually be resolved.

    I fixed my duplicates issues by deleting the .dsf files and keeping the .duf files. (making sure to only do this when there WAS a corresponding .duf)

    Now I don't have any duplicates :)

    Is this a valid procedure? I'm not trying to argue. I just don't know. Will this work without causing problems?

  • FixmypcmikeFixmypcmike Posts: 17,301
    edited February 2013

    inquire said:
    RojHarris said:

    I've been having problems with Duplicates, and I'm not using the DIM. Well, hopefully these errors will eventually be resolved.

    I fixed my duplicates issues by deleting the .dsf files and keeping the .duf files. (making sure to only do this when there WAS a corresponding .duf)

    Now I don't have any duplicates :)

    Is this a valid procedure? I'm not trying to argue. I just don't know. Will this work without causing problems?

    Yes, that will be fine. Some products haven't been split into DS4.5 and legacy versions, and have both .duf and .dsf (or duf and .daz).

    Post edited by Fixmypcmike on
  • ken_7dac5ac5a2ken_7dac5ac5a2 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    adamr001 said:
    @DavidGB:

    1. Use a directory junction to redirect the folder anywhere you'd like it. There were O/S limitations (on the Mac) that kept some of that stuff from being customizable.
    2. Install anywhere you please. There's nothing forcing you to use the default directory.
    3. It took me all of overnight to reinstall nearly 4000 items (almost my entire DAZ history) and it was done unattended.

    Adam,

    Maybe I don't understand what you've said, but I don't see how a junction is going to fix this problem (that DIM uses a folder in Public). With a junction the folder and its contents will still be in Public. The junction just provides another way to refer to it.

    I haven't seen a way to get the DIM stuff out of Public, something I would like to do as well. I see you can change the download location in Settings, but I assume this only moves the ...\Install Manager\Downloads folder to somewhere else. I would assume other folders, like Settings, will stay put. Correct me if I am wrong.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 47,034
    edited December 1969

    adamr001 said:
    @DavidGB:

    1. Use a directory junction to redirect the folder anywhere you'd like it. There were O/S limitations (on the Mac) that kept some of that stuff from being customizable.
    2. Install anywhere you please. There's nothing forcing you to use the default directory.
    3. It took me all of overnight to reinstall nearly 4000 items (almost my entire DAZ history) and it was done unattended.

    Adam,

    Maybe I don't understand what you've said, but I don't see how a junction is going to fix this problem (that DIM uses a folder in Public). With a junction the folder and its contents will still be in Public. The junction just provides another way to refer to it.

    I haven't seen a way to get the DIM stuff out of Public, something I would like to do as well. I see you can change the download location in Settings, but I assume this only moves the ...\Install Manager\Downloads folder to somewhere else. I would assume other folders, like Settings, will stay put. Correct me if I am wrong.

    A directory junction gets the files off the C: drive, if people want to avoid cluttering asmall drive or to avoid wear on an SSD or to make sure a reformat won't wipe the files. That may or may not resolve a particular user's issues with the currently unconfigurable location.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 601
    edited February 2013

    Oh, no! Don't tell me this can happen!! OK, I decided to try the DIM on the Macintosh. I didn't set the DIM to install anything yet. But, I went through my list of files and selected 739, Genesis files, to download. The download started. Twenty-three files are downloaded. Then, a message popped up saying that the internet connection had been broken. It gave instructions for restarting. I did restart. Now, it says 715 files are Ready to Download, but none of the files are selected, so I don't think that's so.

    I clicked one file, at the top of the list, to see if that would make the "Start Queue" button highlight. It did. I got the downloading to restart. However, it just downloaded that one file, then stopped. UPDATE: NO, IT ONLY APPEARED TO DOWNLOAD THAT ONE FILE. BESIDE THE FILE, IT SAYS "DOWNLOAD FAILED!"

    So, does this mean -- and I think it probably does -- that all my time has been wasted? If so, I think this is one of the worst things DAZ3D has ever done to me.

    Luckily, I have not deleted any files from My Library.

    But, if this is how the DIM can (or cannot) work, why oh why DAZ would you ever release it? Do you know how maddening your behavior is to your customers? I am fast becoming a former DAZ customer.

    Post edited by inquire on
Sign In or Register to comment.