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I don't think the translucency/cutout is true, exactly.
What doesn't go together is 'thin shell off' + cutout, because all volumetric effects revert to thin shell whenever ANY cutout is engaged. (IE: SSS)
Now, translucency might not operate as expected with cutout; translucency with thin shell on vs. off can look different.
Thin Shell = Thin Walled? Those same hairs that use cutout + translucency also have Thin Walled Off. So. I'm getting a little confused. Is all that "wrong"? Gah! And they have Displacement on with with no surface subD and base resolution of the hair mesh.
...
About what Substance Painter can do......in the hands of a not so experienced user but never the less seriously hooked to the program! Got a SnowScooter yesterday thanks to DAZ originals and Mely3D.....I loved the model, my nephew owns a snowmobile (not in The Netherlands that would be daft but in the US of A of course) and these things get abuse by the ton. Goes with the territory of of roding right. So I loved the model but hated the textures (factory new, not my piece of cake I'm sorry). So 1.6 hours and Substance Painter got me this result!
Greets, ArtisanS
And Kyoto Kid, LOL........!
Po-TAY-to, po-TAH-to. If you use a cutout opacity map your transmissive settings are borked and your translucency will look wrong. I'm intimately familiar with this because it's what makes it impossible to use culling conformers to create characters.
We fudged it on the Ball Joint Dolls for G3 because they're not characters with lifelike skin, so the fact that it was impossible to match the ball joints' shader and the skin shader perfectly was less relevant; but this is one important reason why there are fewer creature characters for Genesis 3. The blending solution that was used for e.g. the Lilith wings is now impossible because as soon as you try to blend added limbs etc. with a transmap, the skin texture is forever unmatchable.
Will, indeed a lot of confusing stuf on the Uber shader. In principle translucency and opacity have nothing to do with each other. The first decribes the amount of light going through an object (and ideally how much color is retained and in which part of the color spectrum), the second discribes the parts of the texture that are user facing aka are visible. Build a tree (Blender had a neck in building trees through the sapling ad on), add leaves, now thee leaves are low poly and the shape of the leaf is usually (unless mr. Stonemason come to the party in Fern Lake) determined through a opacity map. Cycles uses an Alpha layer, DAZ Iray likes a black and white opacity map. Personally I use Gimp for making opacity maps since SP isn't that good at it, at least that is my experience.
So since both are totally different beasts, I cannot see how they could influence each other. Thin walled and volume could influence each other though. Volume means either refraction (glass) or SSS and that sort of would collide with translucency since both discribe the way light travels through an object. I once made a headlamp (just for fun and games) with a smooth piece of glas and a fresnell pattern on the normal map/height map....then I send a light through (but an emission type light no lamp in the 3Delight way if the word). Now I got some kind of a refraction pattern on the opposite wall........and it didn't take awfly long to render. to my great supprise. So area lights in IRay seem to behave with glass......at least in that experiment.
So indeed that look logical......and what happens here is that a program is a good as it's information and the info on IRay/DAZ is growing but is far from complete......a lot of hit and mis and experimentation is in order, but that is half of the fun, right.
Greets, ArtisanS
Thanks for the clarification, and for all the advice you share here and on DA. Would you recommend that I take those hair models with cutout maps and set Translucency Weight to 0 and Thin Walled to On?
Even when you put the skin textures in the translucent color (if the main skin does) and the trans map in the Cutout AND Translucent Weight? o.O
Laurie
It's not the same thing, Sickleyield.
Using cutout literally switches SSS and transmission settings off. The figure is calculated like thin wall: on, regardless of what you set it at.
BUT translucency works for thin wall: on AND thin wall: off. It looks different, but if I want, say, a plastic sheet that's just one surface, and I'm using translucency, I can use cutout or not, it makes no difference.
The problem with skin and layering stuff on top is exactly because cutout shuts off volume effects, not because it shuts off translucency.
Okay, I've double-checked it, and you are right and I am wrong. Which also explains why there are hairs that use translucency and cutout. Our original problem must've been with inability match skin SSS with our conformers.
But (AllenArt): I still recommend against putting the skin texture in the translucency color. Only the very earliest skins do this and it's never a good idea. More recent skins use a grayscale map or gray with blue veins instead (also the method we used for the Beautiful Skin sets' custom translucency maps).
So on the topic of the thread, a more accurate version of my original answer would be:
-Apply the Uber base.
-Dial up glossy layered weight to more than 50%, DO NOT LEAVE AT 0. Change roughness accordingly; usually it's too low.
-Check emission to make sure it is BLACK. Not gray. Having a temperature of 0 k does not produce a glowless result if emission color is gray. That's impossible IRL so you're basically just causing an error.
-If there is displacement, set displacement SubD to 1 or 2. 0 gives you no visible displacement. ***This is where RichardH showed that this is not always the case. The SubD of the objects comes into play here, not just the surface***
-If there is metal, set its roughness below 30% and turn metallicity to 25% or more depending on desired reflective shininess.
-If there is a cutout opacity transmap, you might as well turn on thin-walled, because anything you do with this will be deactivated by the engine.
Well now... I thought it was just me.
Yes, my pants do glow... But for some reason, my underwear are just fine...
Now if someone can direct me to a tutorial on how to properly gift wrap a tarantula, my holiday will be mostly complete.
Thanks for clarifying the conversion guidelines.
Happy Holiday, however you celebrate this winter season.
Thanks for checking, Sickleyield! I have great respect for you and admitting a point of confusion just adds to it.
I've found, re: RichardH's subd comment, that Displacement in Iray is markedly easier/better following his advice. I used to use displacement subd all the time, now I never do.
Just hit yet another product where the surfaces are a mix of 3DL and Iray.
That's just... amateurish. Sheesh.
The Santa bundle is that way. The Santa coat uses Daz Studio Default and omUberSurface for the Iray materials.
Equally frustrating are products that have presets for Iray, but the presets apply the same 3DL shaders as the presets for 3DL ...
Right let's address the elephant in the room.
Studio DOES NOT auto convert 3DL shaders to IRAY, what it does do is recognize some 3DL channels and settings and applys those to the IRAY base shader.
It's exactly the same thing as selecting all the surfaces on a figure and applying the !IRAY Uber Base preset.
What you get from this will always be hit or miss (mostly miss) at render time.
No, no Barbult, she says specifically in the first line that this does not apply to skin and hair. They are different animals all together. Do NOT apply these suggestions to skin or hair.
EDIT - let me know that you see my response or I'll be forced to pester you with a PM :)
Hi, I see your response.
I interpreted her comment differently than you did, though. She said those suggestions were not sufficient for skin or hair. I didn't interpret that to mean that they didn't apply to skin or hair, only that additional changes would also be required for skin and hair. The statements about how the Iray Uber shader will respond to certain settings seems to be universal to me, and not dependent on what obj the shader is applied to. If cutout opacity kills volume, it seems that it will do so for everything, for example.
Sorry, I was on page 2. I must make sure I check my page...argh.
Ha! I've done that more than once or twice.
Referring to my post back on page 1, how is this any different to a G3M business suit with Iray Glossy Layered Weight set to 100% and Glossy Reflectivity set at 50%. The whole thing reflects like a mirror unless you turn them all way down or off.
The real point is that any artist worth his/her salt would be checking out the shader nodes and adjusting them as a matter of normal procedure all-by-themselves. Shock-horror you do have to put a bit of effort into your artwork..... at least until the "make-art" button becomes a reality.
If I'm paying someone $25 for a pair of virtual pants, I expect them to do basic stuff like 'doesn't look stupid in supporter renderer.'
I mean, Wilmap doesn't make those mistakes, and her stuff is free
If you look at the OP picture it isn't rendered with lights. The pants in question probably don't look stupid at all when rendered with lights..
The pants don't look terrible, but the necklace and watch sure do.
The pants don't look horrible, but it's Iray, so faking things isn't necessary. Backscatter can be used instead of an emissive to brighten the material because most fabrics HAVE backscatter anyway IRL. I guess it's going to take awhile for all the PAs to learn the new stuff ;). But they and the testers do need to look out for things like this. I'm not knocking anyone...I just correct things where I think they need it and move on, but there are others who aren't sure how to correct these types of things.
Laurie
Not to mention turning on emission when you don't have to slows the render down. Why waste CPU/GPU cycles doing something that could be done with less cycles the correct way? Same with the misuse of displacement in Iray materials.
If it only looks right with just the right lighting, the point of PBR has been well missed.
Cool thread, and kudos to SickleYield.......admitting mistakes is not everybodies cup of tea....especially in public....keep up the good work!
Greets, ArtisanS
P.S. Will as a photographer by nature I can only say, even IRL somethings only looks good with the right lighting (on that many a photographers daily chow earning is based). So PBR is as close to IRL as possible but it's NO excuse for sloppy lighting.......investing in an (surface emitting) lighting rig is not a waste of money! Unless of course you are outside and use a skydome......mine are from the Terradome 3 set.....and I love everyone of them!