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I'm taking that as being facetious, though there are probably a lot of people that might take it seriously. The problem with sterotypes of groups that we don't get a lot of is the fact that the stereotype is ALL we get when we see them. I know a lot of native Americans and very seldom do I see them in traditional garb except at pow wows, but I can guarantee that nearly 90% of the time when I see a native American depicted in art it's going to be set in what appears to be the 1800s.
There are plenty of depictions of blue-eyed blondes that aren't stereotypical so the occasional Valkyrie, or milk maid doesn't really come off as egregious. Stereotypes really don't have much to do with being or not being PC. It's just that people are tired of a lot of stuff. At worst it simply shows a dearth of imagination.
Well I finally got her installed and what a great skin texture, better than I expected. For someone that doesn't normally purchase addon characters i am up to five now for genesis 3, that is very unprecedented for me, LOL
Quick render to test the skin texture (figure shape is mine)
The problem is that a lot of Caucasian (and Asian) stereotypical characters are often portrayed neutral or heroic while witch doctor imagery was pretty much always portrayed in the negative. "Backwards savage" and many other impolite conotations. About the only such portrayal that's positive is Egyptians but Hollywood aggressively does everything possible to pretend Egypt isn't in Africa (and Ancient Egypt had a slightly different ethnic makeup than modern Egypt anyways). Voodoo winds up weird since there ARE modern heroic portrayals...but it usually gets mixed in with witch evil doctors. Though with that said, the actual voodoo bundle for Genesis 2 is better realized than Monique 6's Pro Bundle. Also there were many, even a few of the Daz reps who post in the forums, who noted that the promo/advertisement setup for Monique and Darius 6 was poor even outside of the contents.
Now, an interesting thing is the lack of genuine African tribal and modern wear. In other words, Oktoberfest equivalents mostly don't exist. This discussion might be better over in the Black is Beautiful thread than bogging this one down.
I'd also point out that when you look at Michael or Victoria or Olympia pro bundles, you aren't seeing 'stereotypically Caucasian' stuff.
And if you're immediate reaction is 'well, no, they have _normal_ stuff' then bingo, there's the problem right there.
I remember, 4 months or so after Monique 6 came out, Victoria 7 was introduced, maybe Victoria 8 in March Madness?
Nice character, btw.
Please... NO!!!
Not 8, not 8, not8...
Not yet.
Monique 6 had 2/3 "stereotypical" outfits while Dairus 6 had 1/3. Monique could have had 1 as well but still, it's not a catastrophe to me. Keep in mind that characters of color ar the best chance how to sell and advertise these.
Imagine how silly would a voodo african witch doctor/samurai look on a white girl. Not to mention there would definitely be someone accusing creators of culture appropriation instead of stereotypes :D
It's damned if you do damned if you don't.
I'm still hoping for a Native American couple and if I were a creator, of course I'd dress them up in traditional garb for the main promo even though most natives do not dress like that these days of course.
Why? Simply because it's more eye catching, more unique and basically the only chance to show off and sell that outfit.
I think the problem would be solved if we got more than one black/asian couple per generation thus the content would spread out and the bundles were less likely to fall entirely to stereotype but I doubt this will happen :(
But maybe Daz will surprise us this time around : )
And yeah of course Vicky and Michael aren't being stereotyped, they're always kinda basic and themeless.
jak11 I hope you are wrong! 2017 must belong to Genesis 3 :(
Silly, but you still see it. What was the Bride in 'Kill Bill' after all? And I see white girls in Native American head dresses all the time in photography even though the image is incorrect on several fronts, appropriation being the least of it. Thing is You've had black Soldiers in every war the US has ever fought, there were black cowboys (quite a few actually), the majority of pirates believe it or not were not Causcasian. You have the Moors, and the list goes on. The clothes for any of those would sell like hotcakes regardless of the character they happened to be attached to. You don't have to resort to stereotypes to sell black characters. It doesn't have to be a "damned if you do damned if you don't" situation if you just put a modicum of thought into it. So until I see a Aryan character with a Nazi theme, or the next Giovanni comes out with a Mafia theme being showcased, I'm calling Foul and BS on the stereotyping of ethnic characters. There comes a time when you need to simply stop indulging people in their ignorance.
That would actually be against the law in some parts of Europe.
DE Nadira, with some postwork adjustments. De-aged to 'older teen'. I really do love the costume. I saw lots of people saying 'blah another woodland outfit' but I'm delighted to see non-skimpwear fantasy stuff that isn't full metal armor. Though I guess much of that is made by Bobbie25?
And I guess some people would consider that PC taken to an extreme as well.
Monique is currently not wearing her new item discount.
I suddenly feel this urge to do a render of Dido Elizabeth Belle if I can figure out what clothes for her...
Ivan came with a mobster outfit. "Russian Mobster" is definitely a stereotype.
Not staking a claim on bad or good or whatever,
Admittedly, that is the main problem. From when I last checked, there's less than 10 total black males for Genesis 3 and that was both Daz and Renderosity combined.
And Monique is still not wearing her new item discount. Waiting ...
I hope Raiya does head morph packs for the G3 characters too :).
While I try to be respectful of other people's feelings, I'm very un-PC. I feel that PC gone crazy means the end of free speech. Having said that, I still hate some of the names for black or characters of color like Jasmine or Sapphire. Urgh. I went to school with Paula, Lisa, Leslie, etc....no reason a black female can't be named one of those ;). *shakes head* LOL. And to be honest, the voodoo stuff was a little over the top. Glad we have it tho. Just wish it could have been marketed a little differently ;).
Laurie
At one time, I lived in Minneapolis, MN, right near the Indian Nation, a large apartment community of Native Americans. We had a large number of Native Americans in the general "downtown, or in-town" community. I assure you, none of them wore "Native American" costumes, unless they participated in one of the many Native American celebrations.
North Minneapolis is where the largest percentage of Arican Americans (blacks?!) live. I worked for several months as a Security Officer in that neighborhood. I never saw a single person dressed in a Voodoo outfit, or gogo outfit for that matter.
I prefer to work in the "Real World" with my cartoon characters. Marlin & friends wear everyday clothes. I prefer to avoid dresses on women just because dresses can be a logistical problem when posing characters. All too often I find only a small number of outfits for my characters to wear.
You can say that again. It's amazing how many dresses aren't made to do simple everyday things such as sitting down, or even kneeling without doing an amazing amount of tweaking and morphing to get it to look natural. Try to make a character do anything beside pose standing up and you start to understand why there's so much skimp wear in the Daz catalog.
God, yes. 90% of the reason I use things like VWD is flipping dresses and skirts looking terrible.
I agree. Considering we only get ONE official "7" figure that is a black woman, they need to stay clear of stereotypes. It would be a different story if we had a more equal representation of characters of different races. But since we've gotten TWENTY THREE white "7 figures" so far and only ONE black character, there doesn't need be any stereotypes attached to the ONE black character's bundle.
What about Kalea and Kimo? Polynisian isn't exactly known for looking ghostly pale.
I'm not sure what your point is. I didn't count Kalea, Kimo, Lee, or Mei Lin as part of the 23 - as I only counted the white figures.
Lucian
Lilith
Sunny
Tween Ryan
Tween Julie
Kenji
Aiko
Ivan
Rune
Izabella
Guy
Girl
Gianni
Gia
Leo
Olympia
Michael
Arabella
Teen Josie
Karen
Bethany
Eva
Victoria
To be fair there are a couple of characters, like Sunny, who's ethnicity is a bit less clear, but for the most part the VAST majority of them are white.
I think Kalea and Kimo are examples where the garments are either ethnically appropriate island beach wear, fantasy island outfits which aren't cartoon or negative, or versitle clothes that anyone could wear, As far as I could see, not a criminal, skank, or cartoon in sight.... Only, Kimo got an outfit that wasn't 20th century... but he did get an apocolyptic garment... Asian representation in the store is also troubling as the representation of black people so Klea and Kimo were a step forward in not presenting the demure and exotic geisha or the Bruce Lee clone. Monique seems a great step forward in changing things. "Polynisian isn't exactly known for looking ghostly pale." but they aren't black.
While quite fair skinned, Kenji and Aiko are both Asian. It's just that they're going for an anime videogame aesthetic.
Finally got the chance to do a test render of Monique 7. I think she's beautiful and very realistic. My only tiny quibble - I'm not sure how I feel about including ear piercings as part of the base textures. I've seen it now on a couple of the base characters. While it might be good for realism (provided earrings load to match the texture), piercing holes may not suit all renders. What do you think?
ETA: added a pic of the ear piercing
Amazing render Redz!
About the ear piercing, it should be easy to simply change the position of the earring to fit the texture by moving it and/or scaling a bit.
Finally got the chance to do a test render of Monique 7. I think she's beautiful and very realistic. My only tiny quibble - I'm not sure how I feel about including ear piercings as part of the base textures. I've seen it now on a couple of the base characters. While it might be good for realism (provided earrings load to match the texture), piercing holes may not suit all renders. What do you think?
Thanks Toyen. I've found it's not so easy -conforming earrings won't budge unless they have included morphs. I can unfit and parent them to reposition them manually, but these ones, for example, are paired, so when they need to be x-translated (as they do to fit Monique's piercing holes), one moves the right way and the other doesn't. So I'd have to unpair them or load a second pair and hide geometry. Suddenly it starts to seem like a lot of work for a small detail. LOL
Just grab that ring in the viewport with the universal manipulator and move it.. I don't go through the trouble of adding extra bones to my earring for noithing.
Aha! That is great to know. I love picking up new knowledge. Thanks Fisty.