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Tell me why 3Delight is awesome, please?

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  • Stryder87Stryder87 Posts: 899
    timmins.william said:

    Aiijuin Graphics: Well, actually 3DL DOES have emissive surfaces!

    Though they do tend to be a bit slow, but it's a fair trade off.

     

    Can you describe how to do this?  I've needed this a number of times but can never quite wrap my head around how you do it.  Glowing panels and buttons would be so nice to figure out how to do!

     

  • Aiijuin GraphicsAiijuin Graphics Posts: 171
    timmins.william said:

    Aiijuin Graphics: Well, actually 3DL DOES have emissive surfaces!

    Though they do tend to be a bit slow, but it's a fair trade off.

     

    Does it, Will?  You must tell me what I have to do, what thread I have to read, or what I have to purchase in order to get that effect.  I would SO love to emissive light in 3Delight.  It's still my favorite rendering engine to-date.  (of course, it's the only rendering engine that I'm familiar with anyway prior to Iray).

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,581
    timmins.william said:
    dreamfarmer said:

    That's an amazing stroke of luck, AoA stuff being on sale today! I just need to rearrange my budget some so I can leave money for the PC+ sale....

    This has happened often enough that I'm pretty sure someone on staff keeps an eye on discussions and pokes things behind the scenes.

    Maybe, but on this occasion AoA came out with a new release today, which is why his store is on sale, so I think it is just a coincidence.

     

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,996
    edited October 2016

    Like anything, 3Delight has its strengths and weaknessess.  I will personally vouch for the AoA light bundle.   I use to use them all the time when I still rendered in 3DL.  I will also state that they flagging feature is greatly needed to help speed up your renders as it can allow you to render quickly though areas with no transparencies where less number crunching is involved and reduce the work load in areas with transparencies.  THe independant shadow controls on each light is useful too so you can reduce the number of calculations on back ground lights and increase the number on foreground lights for better quality. 

     

    I would highly recommend using progressive rendering as it will allow you to see what your going to get early on with out having to wait and render the whole scene.

     

    The best example I have of AoA lighting is this one - There are MANY lights in the scene.

     

    The Renegade

    http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/images/20354


     

    And two of my personal favorites of mine done in 3DL.

     

    The Girls Dorm

    http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/images/48862

     

    Elly 04

    http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/80736

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175

    I liken 3DL to Poser's Firefly - not quite as realistic as Iray, but it can come really close if you know how to use it. And for a lot of folks, really close is close enough for the story they're trying to tell :). It's also probably more versitile, at least at this point in Iray's early implementation in DS, so it has more "stuff" you can do with it. I never took to 3DL because I came over to DS specifically for Iray, but I used Poser for many years before that and using Firefly as an example, it could do a lot of things if you knew how to use it. The problem there (and probably with 3DL too) is that it takes more "finesse" to do the same thing in 3DL than in Iray where it's more automatic because Iray is just set up that way.

    I really hope that made sense. LOL

    Laurie

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    I'll post about the emissive 3DL lights (uber area lights) in my tips thread, so it's all in one place. ;)

     

  • Stryder87Stryder87 Posts: 899
    timmins.william said:

    I'll post about the emissive 3DL lights (uber area lights) in my tips thread, so it's all in one place. ;)

     

    Just saw/read it.  Awesome tips!  Thanks!

  • exstarsisexstarsis Posts: 2,128

    Ultimately the kind of 'look' I'd like to get is a 'realistic painting' style. Not the sort of thing anybody would mistake for a photograph, but more like 'realistic 2d illustration'. It's definitely been hard to achieve that look in Iray.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    I'm not sure why you'd necessarily want to do this, but with 3DL you could have an outlined cartoon-shaded character shaking hands with a photorealistic (or close) human figure.

     

  • nattaruknattaruk Posts: 546
    edited October 2016
    timmins.william said:

    I'm not sure why you'd necessarily want to do this, but with 3DL you could have an outlined cartoon-shaded character shaking hands with a photorealistic (or close) human figure.

     

    As in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?", for example?

    Post edited by nattaruk on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    Or Cool World! :)

  • nattaruknattaruk Posts: 546

    Cool World, thanks, not seen that one but it does look interesting....

     

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    Let's see...Chappie, Jurassic World, Charlotte's Web, District 9, White House Down...and many, many more...

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,257
    edited October 2016

    Here's a 3DL/Iray comparison I once did. My skills with both are still quite limited, could probably be done much better, but it may give an impression of the differences when rendering toons.

     

    cookie-sunflower-3dl.jpg
    778 x 933 - 132K
    cookie-sunflower-iray.jpg
    778 x 933 - 119K
    Post edited by Taoz on
  • exstarsisexstarsis Posts: 2,128

    Wow. Dat grass (shader). It hides his feet! Wow.

    Hiro in Environment.png
    800 x 800 - 1M
  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,353
    ModernWizard said:
    timmins.william said:

    My big recommendation is to get the Age of Armor lights (particularly Ambient, but also the Spotlight and Distant light). They run fast and have a number of cool controls.

    A lot of folks use UberEnvironment, but I find they just take tooooooooooooooooo long. I prefer just AoA Distant/Spotlight + Ambient light, and the scenes come out great. Maybe not quite as realistic as with, say, UE2 bounce light, but really really darn close. And way faster.

    Though UE2 is worth experimenting with, because it's free, and it DOES make stuff more realistic. But if it starts dragging... switch it off. ;)

     

     

    Yeah, but aren't the AoA lights' flagging features [necessary for them to work really well] broken in DS 4.9?

    That said, 3DL all the way for me. I like the realistic, yet stylized and unreal, look.

    --MW

    I use the flagging with AoA's lights all the time - they still work with Diffuse.  I haven't bothered with Ambient or Specular.  I have done a render with 6 AoA spotlights, each on a different subject and not illuminating any other subject.  It says set the flag for 99% Diffuse, either to illuminate or not illuminate.  You can set the diffuse to any value.  For multiple objects, I used 99.1, 99.2, 99.3, etc. 

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,353

    The main reasons why I still use 3Delight is that Iray can be grainy, and that blows out the whole reality usefulness of the engine.  Also, despite the PA's wonderful efforts to improve hair, it still doesn't look real.  Some hair figures still look like the strands are made of string in Iray.  Render the exact same hair in 3Delight, and the strands look far more natural. 

  • srieschsriesch Posts: 4,243
    Aiijuin Graphics said:
    timmins.william said:

    Aiijuin Graphics: Well, actually 3DL DOES have emissive surfaces!

    Though they do tend to be a bit slow, but it's a fair trade off.

     

    Does it, Will?  You must tell me what I have to do, what thread I have to read, or what I have to purchase in order to get that effect.  I would SO love to emissive light in 3Delight.  It's still my favorite rendering engine to-date.  (of course, it's the only rendering engine that I'm familiar with anyway prior to Iray).

        UberAreaLight:
        To make a surface emit light, select the surface, then select "!UberAreaLight Base.dsa".  Then, in the Surfaces pane:
        To see the light source itself, set "Ambient Active" to On, and set the Ambient color, and apply an image to the Ambient Color if you want the light to have surface features.
        To change the color of the light emitted, set Color .  
        Change the Intensity slider up to make it brighter; note some lights may need to be dramatically brighter to be seen, work with powers of 10 to start with.  Opacity can also be used at the same time.
        To fix any graininess, especially in shadows: increase the samples parameter (at the cost of greatly increased render time).  The value varies greatly depending on the light.  I have seen 32 work for some lights, 1024 was needed for one.
        Verify/set "Falloff Active" parameter to On.

     

  • Aiijuin GraphicsAiijuin Graphics Posts: 171
    sriesch said:
    Aiijuin Graphics said:
    timmins.william said:

    Aiijuin Graphics: Well, actually 3DL DOES have emissive surfaces!

    Though they do tend to be a bit slow, but it's a fair trade off.

     

    Does it, Will?  You must tell me what I have to do, what thread I have to read, or what I have to purchase in order to get that effect.  I would SO love to emissive light in 3Delight.  It's still my favorite rendering engine to-date.  (of course, it's the only rendering engine that I'm familiar with anyway prior to Iray).

        UberAreaLight:
        To make a surface emit light, select the surface, then select "!UberAreaLight Base.dsa".  Then, in the Surfaces pane:
        To see the light source itself, set "Ambient Active" to On, and set the Ambient color, and apply an image to the Ambient Color if you want the light to have surface features.
        To change the color of the light emitted, set Color .  
        Change the Intensity slider up to make it brighter; note some lights may need to be dramatically brighter to be seen, work with powers of 10 to start with.  Opacity can also be used at the same time.
        To fix any graininess, especially in shadows: increase the samples parameter (at the cost of greatly increased render time).  The value varies greatly depending on the light.  I have seen 32 work for some lights, 1024 was needed for one.
        Verify/set "Falloff Active" parameter to On.

     

    Thank you!  I'm at work right now, but I'll have to try this when I get home again to my computer tonight.  I also need to find Will's point thread somewhere.  Unfortunately, I was an hour from heading out the door when I found this thread and added some feedback and questions.

    I'll have to find this thread again later in order to copy and paste everything.  (On an iPad, and it's wonky with the copy and paste for some reason lately).

     

  • Aiijuin GraphicsAiijuin Graphics Posts: 171
    sriesch said:
    Aiijuin Graphics said:
    timmins.william said:

    Aiijuin Graphics: Well, actually 3DL DOES have emissive surfaces!

    Though they do tend to be a bit slow, but it's a fair trade off.

     

    Does it, Will?  You must tell me what I have to do, what thread I have to read, or what I have to purchase in order to get that effect.  I would SO love to emissive light in 3Delight.  It's still my favorite rendering engine to-date.  (of course, it's the only rendering engine that I'm familiar with anyway prior to Iray).

        UberAreaLight:
        To make a surface emit light, select the surface, then select "!UberAreaLight Base.dsa".  Then, in the Surfaces pane:
        To see the light source itself, set "Ambient Active" to On, and set the Ambient color, and apply an image to the Ambient Color if you want the light to have surface features.
        To change the color of the light emitted, set Color .  
        Change the Intensity slider up to make it brighter; note some lights may need to be dramatically brighter to be seen, work with powers of 10 to start with.  Opacity can also be used at the same time.
        To fix any graininess, especially in shadows: increase the samples parameter (at the cost of greatly increased render time).  The value varies greatly depending on the light.  I have seen 32 work for some lights, 1024 was needed for one.
        Verify/set "Falloff Active" parameter to On.

     

    Thank you!  I'm at work right now, but I'll have to try this when I get home again to my computer tonight.  I also need to find Will's point thread somewhere.  Unfortunately, I was an hour from heading out the door when I found this thread and added some feedback and questions.

    I'll have to find this thread again later in order to copy and paste everything.  (On an iPad, and it's wonky with the copy and paste for some reason lately).

  • DamanyoDamanyo Posts: 44

    It's very interesting hearing the experience of newer users that have always used Iray!  I came in when 3DL was the standard and am most comfortable with that render method: It's faster and easier for me.  I've seen some very masterful Iray renders and I'm glad Iray exists.  But for me, every render is not expected to be a masterpiece and I don't have the time to render masterpieces.  For me it's about story progression, I have visuals I want to represent in a series of quick images and 3DL is so great for that!  Ive seen some masterful 3DL renders as well and it can be a great resource.  timmins.william is a wonderful resource of information and guidance, listen to him (Will, you the man!). 

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    Awww, shucks. ;)

    I actually came in about a year before Iray dropped. And given my learning curve, I found Iray welcome and BETTER IN EVERY WAY than 3DL, and was like 'ok, nuts to you, 3dl!'

    Then I learned a lot more and realized things weren't quite what they seemed.

     

  • exstarsisexstarsis Posts: 2,128

    Can you explain to me what's broken about the AoA lights? I've done some experimenting and, um, the default Daz Distant Light had a lot to do with my initial distaste for 3DL. UberEnvironment is a bit better (but very confusing) but the AoA-- a whole new world. I think I now understand about flagging surfaces but not what part of that is broken now? And I'd like to know that. 

  • Stryder87Stryder87 Posts: 899
    dreamfarmer said:

    I now understand about flagging surfaces but not what part of that is broken now?

    I don't understand what you would be flagging a surface for, how you do it, or what effect it has on the finished product.  That aspect of it is a total mystery to me.  I load a light, point, adjust brightness, colour, shadows and render.  Is this flagging done to accomplish effects similar to those Specular/Diffuse only type lights I asked about in another thread?

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,085

    Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will pipe in, but simple form is that flagging lets some lights only affect some surfaces. There are also ways for lights to affect different surfaces differently.

    So, for example, I THINK it's still possible to set it up so that hair isn't affected by ambient occlusion (which can really bog things down).

    It used to be possible to set things up so that subsurface scattering was calculated for some things, like skin, but not others, like hair or whatever. I think. And that flagging broke.

     

    But it's still a good light set that works in most cases, and you can still flag it to say 'don't illuminate THAT figure'

     

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,885
    Stryder87 said:
    dreamfarmer said:

    I now understand about flagging surfaces but not what part of that is broken now?

    I don't understand what you would be flagging a surface for, how you do it, or what effect it has on the finished product.  That aspect of it is a total mystery to me.  I load a light, point, adjust brightness, colour, shadows and render.  Is this flagging done to accomplish effects similar to those Specular/Diffuse only type lights I asked about in another thread?

    Admittedly, I almost never use flagging, but it's supposed to be so that a light only affects certain surfaces.  So if you say need a light on just someone's face or eyes, you can adjust those surfaces very, very slightly, and then have the light only illuminate surfaces with those adjustments.

    As I understand it, Flagging still works when using diffuse as the adjusted parameter, but not anything else.  As I said, I generally don't use it at all.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    timmins.william said:

    Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will pipe in, but simple form is that flagging lets some lights only affect some surfaces. There are also ways for lights to affect different surfaces differently.

    So, for example, I THINK it's still possible to set it up so that hair isn't affected by ambient occlusion (which can really bog things down).

    It used to be possible to set things up so that subsurface scattering was calculated for some things, like skin, but not others, like hair or whatever. I think. And that flagging broke.

     

    But it's still a good light set that works in most cases, and you can still flag it to say 'don't illuminate THAT figure'

     

    Pretty much it in a nutshell...

    And the AO on hair...that's not 'flagging' so much as using a surface shader that has an AO override built in...you just 'turn it off' in the surface properties. 

    Flagging is actually much more powerful AND fully accessible than what the AoA lights are capable of, IF you want to mess around using shaders that have the needed input compiled in...yes, it's a default property of 3Delight, but not all Studio shaders give access to it.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    timmins.william said:

    Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will pipe in, but simple form is that flagging lets some lights only affect some surfaces. There are also ways for lights to affect different surfaces differently.

    So, for example, I THINK it's still possible to set it up so that hair isn't affected by ambient occlusion (which can really bog things down).

    It used to be possible to set things up so that subsurface scattering was calculated for some things, like skin, but not others, like hair or whatever. I think. And that flagging broke.

     

    But it's still a good light set that works in most cases, and you can still flag it to say 'don't illuminate THAT figure'

     

    Pretty much it in a nutshell...

    And the AO on hair...that's not 'flagging' so much as using a surface shader that has an AO override built in...you just 'turn it off' in the surface properties. 

    Flagging is actually much more powerful AND fully accessible than what the AoA lights are capable of, IF you want to mess around using shaders that have the needed input compiled in...yes, it's a default property of 3Delight, but not all Studio shaders give access to it.

  • Stryder87Stryder87 Posts: 899

    Hmmmm.... doesn't 3Delight have a 9 light source limit (I think I read that somewhere)?  With all the special effects you could start getting into with this flagging option, I can see hitting that limit pretty quick.  haha

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 12,758
    Stryder87 said:

    Hmmmm.... doesn't 3Delight have a 9 light source limit (I think I read that somewhere)? 

    No, it doesn't, I've used way more than that for some renders. OpenGL preview has a limit on the number of lights it can display, though.

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