Not good, not good at all....

IceDragonArt · October 2016

divamakeup said:

Maximum Overdrive. ...Just saying. :P

One of my favorite B movies ever! lol.

I'm not saying that there aren't items that are very useful for some people. But I too, prefer my privacy and if that means i have a little less convenience, I'm okay with that.

IceDragonArt · October 2016

shadowhawk1 said:

I do not understand the reliance on start phones, cars, fridges, thermostats and TV’s. How hard is it to look in the cabinets, fridge and pantry to make a list BEFORE you go shopping? Why do I need to connect a coffee maker to the internet? All this does is make people more and more dependent on a technology that is becoming easier to interrupt. How many people know how to change the oil on their cars anymore? Or change a shock or alternator? How many people can go out and hunt and fish to put food on their families table in the event of an economic or social collapse due to a failure of the internet everyone has becomes so dependent on? Thanks to smart phones there is a decline in human interaction in my opinion. Yes the internet has given us instant news, which is not always correct at times. To me an increased reliance on a service is unhealthy and will lead to serious repercussions if/when it fails on a global scale. My personal opinion is that people have become so wrapped up with the internet, they no longer see the danger it can pose.

+10!! And I can do all of the above and then some. How many people know how to read a map anymore? I know people who absolutely panic if they have no internet for a couple of hours. To me, that's way too much reliance on something you don't really have any control over. Wouldn't take much to wipe technology on a country wide scale.

Oso3D · October 2016

I'm always amused at how much people absorb the notion of 'the stuff I had when I was 13 is normal, everything else is weird and unnecessary.'

A chain leading all the way back.

'You're digging a hole for your poop? That's stupid luxury! What if the ground is too hard?? Where will you be then?'

nicstt · October 2016

Stryder87 said:

nicstt said:

... don't be low hanging fruit.

It's the same rule I tell my friends when we go hiking: When you encounter a bear, you don't have to be the fastest runner, just don't be the slowest!!

Unfortunately that point would be moot anyways as I'd be the slowest runner... so I'm lerning to fight the bear!!

I can't help worrying about this, but it doesn't sound like it's going to end well; ok from the Bear's perspective I suppose it could be fine.

hphoenix · October 2016

Ice Dragon Art said:

shadowhawk1 said:

I do not understand the reliance on start phones, cars, fridges, thermostats and TV’s. How hard is it to look in the cabinets, fridge and pantry to make a list BEFORE you go shopping? Why do I need to connect a coffee maker to the internet? All this does is make people more and more dependent on a technology that is becoming easier to interrupt. How many people know how to change the oil on their cars anymore? Or change a shock or alternator? How many people can go out and hunt and fish to put food on their families table in the event of an economic or social collapse due to a failure of the internet everyone has becomes so dependent on? Thanks to smart phones there is a decline in human interaction in my opinion. Yes the internet has given us instant news, which is not always correct at times. To me an increased reliance on a service is unhealthy and will lead to serious repercussions if/when it fails on a global scale. My personal opinion is that people have become so wrapped up with the internet, they no longer see the danger it can pose.

+10!! And I can do all of the above and then some. How many people know how to read a map anymore? I know people who absolutely panic if they have no internet for a couple of hours. To me, that's way too much reliance on something you don't really have any control over. Wouldn't take much to wipe technology on a country wide scale.

So much this.

Basic skills aren't even being taught anymore. Cursive writing? Too difficult and most stuff is typed now. Map reading? Why bother since we have GPS. Slaughtering and dressing wild game? Why, when we have grocery stores and butcher shops to do it for us? Building a cistern? We have running water and plumbing. Building a fire? How quaint, since we have central heat and air conditioning.

If society collapsed tomorrow, 90% of the population (in the USA, not sure about other countries) would simply have NO idea what to do or how to survive. Basic (and simple) construction, mechanics, tool-making, and food gathering/preparation are things they have NEVER been taught. Most can't cook (aside from just heating something up, or microwaving it.)

It's really sad. Just because you don't HAVE to do something doesn't mean you shouldn't know HOW to, just in case.

People are RELYING on technology, rather than simply USING it. If any of it, for any reason, stops working, they have no idea what to do as an alternative. And unfortunately, a lot of the alternatives that DID exist are being removed. Remember Pay-Phones here in the US? Virutally gone. The reason? "Well, everyone has cell-phones now. And if theirs isn't working, they can borrow someone elses..."

Truly sad.....

Stryder87 · October 2016

hphoenix said:

Ice Dragon Art said:

shadowhawk1 said:

I do not understand the reliance on start phones, cars, fridges, thermostats and TV’s. How hard is it to look in the cabinets, fridge and pantry to make a list BEFORE you go shopping? Why do I need to connect a coffee maker to the internet? All this does is make people more and more dependent on a technology that is becoming easier to interrupt. How many people know how to change the oil on their cars anymore? Or change a shock or alternator? How many people can go out and hunt and fish to put food on their families table in the event of an economic or social collapse due to a failure of the internet everyone has becomes so dependent on? Thanks to smart phones there is a decline in human interaction in my opinion. Yes the internet has given us instant news, which is not always correct at times. To me an increased reliance on a service is unhealthy and will lead to serious repercussions if/when it fails on a global scale. My personal opinion is that people have become so wrapped up with the internet, they no longer see the danger it can pose.

+10!! And I can do all of the above and then some. How many people know how to read a map anymore? I know people who absolutely panic if they have no internet for a couple of hours. To me, that's way too much reliance on something you don't really have any control over. Wouldn't take much to wipe technology on a country wide scale.

So much this.

Basic skills aren't even being taught anymore. Cursive writing? Too difficult and most stuff is typed now. Map reading? Why bother since we have GPS. Slaughtering and dressing wild game? Why, when we have grocery stores and butcher shops to do it for us? Building a cistern? We have running water and plumbing. Building a fire? How quaint, since we have central heat and air conditioning.

If society collapsed tomorrow, 90% of the population (in the USA, not sure about other countries) would simply have NO idea what to do or how to survive. Basic (and simple) construction, mechanics, tool-making, and food gathering/preparation are things they have NEVER been taught. Most can't cook (aside from just heating something up, or microwaving it.)

It's really sad. Just because you don't HAVE to do something doesn't mean you shouldn't know HOW to, just in case.

People are RELYING on technology, rather than simply USING it. If any of it, for any reason, stops working, they have no idea what to do as an alternative. And unfortunately, a lot of the alternatives that DID exist are being removed. Remember Pay-Phones here in the US? Virutally gone. The reason? "Well, everyone has cell-phones now. And if theirs isn't working, they can borrow someone elses..."

Truly sad.....

A kid in a Home Ec class asked "How do you boil water?" He was serious.

I weep for the future....

AnotherUserName · October 2016

Stryder87 said:

nicstt said:

... don't be low hanging fruit.

It's the same rule I tell my friends when we go hiking: When you encounter a bear, you don't have to be the fastest runner, just don't be the slowest!!

Unfortunately that point would be moot anyways as I'd be the slowest runner... so I'm lerning to fight the bear!!

Except your not supposed to run from bear. Running prey means food or fun, depending on the mood of the animal.

AnotherUserName · October 2016

hphoenix said:

Ice Dragon Art said:

shadowhawk1 said:

I do not understand the reliance on start phones, cars, fridges, thermostats and TV’s. How hard is it to look in the cabinets, fridge and pantry to make a list BEFORE you go shopping? Why do I need to connect a coffee maker to the internet? All this does is make people more and more dependent on a technology that is becoming easier to interrupt. How many people know how to change the oil on their cars anymore? Or change a shock or alternator? How many people can go out and hunt and fish to put food on their families table in the event of an economic or social collapse due to a failure of the internet everyone has becomes so dependent on? Thanks to smart phones there is a decline in human interaction in my opinion. Yes the internet has given us instant news, which is not always correct at times. To me an increased reliance on a service is unhealthy and will lead to serious repercussions if/when it fails on a global scale. My personal opinion is that people have become so wrapped up with the internet, they no longer see the danger it can pose.

+10!! And I can do all of the above and then some. How many people know how to read a map anymore? I know people who absolutely panic if they have no internet for a couple of hours. To me, that's way too much reliance on something you don't really have any control over. Wouldn't take much to wipe technology on a country wide scale.

So much this.

Basic skills aren't even being taught anymore. Cursive writing? Too difficult and most stuff is typed now. Map reading? Why bother since we have GPS. Slaughtering and dressing wild game? Why, when we have grocery stores and butcher shops to do it for us? Building a cistern? We have running water and plumbing. Building a fire? How quaint, since we have central heat and air conditioning.

If society collapsed tomorrow, 90% of the population (in the USA, not sure about other countries) would simply have NO idea what to do or how to survive. Basic (and simple) construction, mechanics, tool-making, and food gathering/preparation are things they have NEVER been taught. Most can't cook (aside from just heating something up, or microwaving it.)

It's really sad. Just because you don't HAVE to do something doesn't mean you shouldn't know HOW to, just in case.

People are RELYING on technology, rather than simply USING it. If any of it, for any reason, stops working, they have no idea what to do as an alternative. And unfortunately, a lot of the alternatives that DID exist are being removed. Remember Pay-Phones here in the US? Virutally gone. The reason? "Well, everyone has cell-phones now. And if theirs isn't working, they can borrow someone elses..."

Truly sad.....

Agreed. I couldnt believe it when my nieces school decided to end cursive writing.

My wife and I have been trying to get on the path of self sustainability. We have plans for chickens and ducks, possibly some other livestock. Solar upgrades to the house would be great but wind would be more practical out here. My niece and nephew are going to spend some time out here over their summer vacations as soon as they are old enough. I cant wait to teach them how to make fire.

hphoenix · October 2016

AnotherUserName said:

Stryder87 said:

nicstt said:

... don't be low hanging fruit.

It's the same rule I tell my friends when we go hiking: When you encounter a bear, you don't have to be the fastest runner, just don't be the slowest!!

Unfortunately that point would be moot anyways as I'd be the slowest runner... so I'm lerning to fight the bear!!

Except your not supposed to run from bear. Running prey means food or fun, depending on the mood of the animal.

Once a bear charges you, it doesn't matter if you stand still or run. Just seeing a bear, you should not run, but if the bear is already running for you, RUN. If possible, climb a tree.

Bears don't NORMALLY attack humans. But a mother with cubs can be very defensive, and you never know if any given bear might be rabid, hungry, or any one of a dozen other things that could make them aggressive. If you are attacked, and can't get away, lay face-down, and cover your neck with your arms....and try to be as silent as possible. You'll get mauled, but you may survive.

Best rule: IF you aren't hunting something, and you come across it in the wild, and it is as big or bigger than you are......back away slowly until it cannot see you, then run to a safe distance (a couple of km.)

Oso3D · October 2016

Rule of thumb, that if you get attacked by a bear, get into a tank.

Also, I can't believe they don't teach people how to properly fix wagon wheels.

Stryder87 · October 2016

timmins.william said:

Also, I can't believe they don't teach people how to properly fix wagon wheels.

Bite, swallow, bite swallow, repeat until gone.

j cade · October 2016

I mean is cursive really a basic *useful* skill? Honesty, handwritten print is far superior in terms of utility. Cursive was taught as a way to write formally. Now formal documents are typed. Beyond looking pretty what benefit does cursive add?

hphoenix · October 2016

j cade said:
I mean is cursive really a basic *useful* skill? Honesty, handwritten print is far superior in terms of utility. Cursive was taught as a way to write formally. Now formal documents are typed. Beyond looking pretty what benefit does cursive add?

Distinctive signatures. Ability to read old documents. It also teaches the brain pattern-matching with much greater fluidity than print does. There's more, but I've made the needed point.

(And cursive developed from using ink as a writing medium. Raising the pen/quill off the paper resulted in a blot of ink being left behind unless the ink reservoir in the pen was not full. So it was developed to allow the pen to remain on the paper for an entire word.)

Chohole · October 2016

j cade said:
I mean is cursive really a basic *useful* skill? Honesty, handwritten print is far superior in terms of utility. Cursive was taught as a way to write formally. Now formal documents are typed. Beyond looking pretty what benefit does cursive add?

Actually some documents are still hand written, and certainly signed by hand, at least in the UK. would you believe that there is ink which is sometimes called Registrars Ink, which is used within an old fashioned fountain pen and it is used when filling in certificates of Births, Deaths and Marriages. Totally waterproof and if not 100% non fading it it certainly lasts a good long time. The Coroner's offical who was writing out the Death Certificate for my Other half was quite impressed when I could produce his original Birth Certificate (a document 75 years old) which was fully readdable, and she said that modern type print would not be as readble in 75 years without being stored in perfect conditions. So yes hand writing, good cursive hand writing does still have it's uses.

AllenArt · October 2016

How does one have a signature without cursive writing? o.O It's also faster writing cursive than it is to print something. I rarely ever print when I'm making a shopping list or whatever. Cursive is about all I ever use ;).

Laurie

j cade · October 2016

None of those seem to require all those extraneous loops that being taught "proper" cursive usually involves (at least that's what was involved when I was taught). It mostly just felt like discrimination against left handed people.

fastbike1 · October 2016

Do you have a lot of experience with bears?

AnotherUserName said:

Stryder87 said:

nicstt said:

... don't be low hanging fruit.

It's the same rule I tell my friends when we go hiking: When you encounter a bear, you don't have to be the fastest runner, just don't be the slowest!!

Unfortunately that point would be moot anyways as I'd be the slowest runner... so I'm lerning to fight the bear!!

Except your not supposed to run from bear. Running prey means food or fun, depending on the mood of the animal.

AnotherUserName · October 2016

fastbike1 said:

Do you have a lot of experience with bears?

AnotherUserName said:

Stryder87 said:

nicstt said:

... don't be low hanging fruit.

It's the same rule I tell my friends when we go hiking: When you encounter a bear, you don't have to be the fastest runner, just don't be the slowest!!

Unfortunately that point would be moot anyways as I'd be the slowest runner... so I'm lerning to fight the bear!!

Except your not supposed to run from bear. Running prey means food or fun, depending on the mood of the animal.

Ive come across a few brown bear in the woods. Not saying im an expert by any means. Thats what ive been taught.

hphoenix · October 2016

j cade said:
None of those seem to require all those extraneous loops that being taught "proper" cursive usually involves (at least that's what was involved when I was taught). It mostly just felt like discrimination against left handed people.

Most of those 'extraneous' loops were designed to keep the pen moving at a relatively constant speed without stops/direction reversals so ink wouldn't blot and the sharp nibs would not tear parchment.

A left-handed person should simply reverse the tilt angle of the cursive writing to match their handedness. Left-handed people are always going to have issues with writing in languages that are written/read left-to-right, regardless of print/script. Any 'discrimintation' against left-handers (you sinister lot ) was purely on the teacher, not the style of writing.....there are specific techniques for left-handed cursive writing, the teacher either did not know, or didn't want to bother teaching them.

AllenArt · October 2016

My mother is left-handed and has the most beautiful cursive writing I've ever seen, even from right-handed people. Her handwriting is certainly much nicer than my own, and I'm right-handed. LOL

She has a tendency to hook her hand way over when she's writing so that even the slant goes the same way as someone who's right-handed.

Laurie

Stryder87 · October 2016

AllenArt said:

She has a tendency to hook her hand way over when she's writing so that even the slant goes the same way as someone who's right-handed.

I've seen left-handed people write like that, looped over so they're almost writing right-handed but upside-down. It looks painful and I usually wince when I see it.

Richard Haseltine · October 2016

hphoenix said:
(And cursive developed from using ink as a writing medium. Raising the pen/quill off the paper resulted in a blot of ink being left behind unless the ink reservoir in the pen was not full. So it was developed to allow the pen to remain on the paper for an entire word.)

as long as there were no Is or Ts (or Js).

exstarsis · October 2016

I'm hand-writing my current novel. Printing it, mostly. It's much faster for me than cursive, and much more readable later. And I'm using a fountain pen. Ahhhh fountain pens.

hphoenix · October 2016

Richard Haseltine said:

hphoenix said:
(And cursive developed from using ink as a writing medium. Raising the pen/quill off the paper resulted in a blot of ink being left behind unless the ink reservoir in the pen was not full. So it was developed to allow the pen to remain on the paper for an entire word.)

as long as there were no Is or Ts (or Js).

It would seem that way, but lower-case i's, t's, and j's have the advantage of not being full height, so the shorter throw of the nib reduces that tendancy. Also, the shape of the nib (chisel-tip was traditional) allowed for it to be angled correctly so that when drawing to the reversal point, and coming back down was drawing the ink along in a thin near-vertical line, while the strokes coming between the letters were half- to full-width of the nib. This consumed and used more ink just prior to the reversal, reducing the likelyhood of a blot forming during the reversal.

Wow, we went from IoT device security to cursive writing styles.....

Oso3D · October 2016

wolf359 · October 2016

timmins.william said:

I'm always amused at how much people absorb the notion of 'the stuff I had when I was 13 is normal, everything else is weird and unnecessary.'

A chain leading all the way back.

'You're digging a hole for your poop? That's stupid luxury! What if the ground is too hard?? Where will you be then?'

@timmins you would really enjoy this video
yes it is a 24 minute speech, but the short of it is:
"Every new technology that was invented up until I was 30 was cool
everything invented after that is a useless luxury for those lazy "youngins"

Daywalker Designs · October 2016

kyoto kid said:

...the sad thing with getting your news outside the Net is most mainstream broadcast sources are very biased these days and more into providing "infotainment" than information and facts. Even the "printed" sources (those which remain) have slipped more into sensationalism and opinion than actual straight news reporting.

With the demise of the print medium, people would actually be far less informed and more aisly manipulated as all they would have to depend on are the commercial electronic broadcast sources like the 3 big networks, CNN, and Fox.

Unfortunately, most print sources are owned by the same companies that own the networks, thus likely to be no more reliable than them.

McGyver · October 2016

Byrdie said:

With the possible exception of TVs, can somebody tell me why we need an "Internet of Things" anyway? Honestly, what the heck does my fridge or coffee pot have to do other than keep my food cold & make coffee and they don't need the internet for that. This is ridiculous!

Yeah... A while ago I was buying a dryer and the salesman starts trying to sell me a dryer that is WiFi... I guess he saw me taking a picture of the ad label stuck to the top, which I was going to send to my friend to ridicule, but he mistook that for being impressed... So I bit... "Cool... What's the advantage? Will it notify me if there is a problem?" Uh... No... "Is it somehow capable of transferring the clothes from the washer (also a WiFi unit)?"... Uh... No... " Okay... Can I change the mode?... Like say I put it on regular and then stepped out and then realized it should be delicate... Can I change that?"... Uh... No...

"So... Why would I want this feature?"... Well, (says the salesman)... Say you fill the dryer but want to go out and then after you are out want the dryer to start... You can turn on the dryer from anywhere...

Oh... But I really shouldn't be leaving wet clothes in dryer... Most manufacturers warn you NOT to do that...

"Yeah... But now if you do, you don't have to worry..."

But I don't do that, so I don't worry about that... Is this a big problem in the world?

"No, but it's a huge convenience that you can chose when to start your dryer..."

I like to start it when I put clothes in it... It makes me feel... Still relevant... But, sure I get that.

"Well, you can also monitor it and check on its progress..."

What if there is a problem then?

"What do you me?"

What am I checking on...?

"How long until the clothes are dry..."

Isn't that what the timer setting is for?... Or am I outside hiding from the dryer because it's unsafe to be indoors while its operating? Why would I need to know this while I'm outdoors?

I don't really know... It's WiFi and everything is becoming WiFi, so it's good to stay ahead...

That probably went on for a lot longer because after the first question I think he realized I was being skeptical and he became determined to make his point, but if you are going to get into a shoutout, you should make sure your gun is loaded and that it's not a toy...

See... I love technology... It can make ours lives better, give us more free time and it can be super useful... Only problem is... And much to my intense frustration and disappointment... Most of it is dumb... Really dumb... Some comes close to not being dumb, but cheaps out and falls way short of achieving anything other than looking cool... Most of the stuff available... Eh... Affordable (not super high end) is a fishy mix of six of one/half dozen of another crapshoot of debatable function... Is it really saving you any labor or providing you with real convenience? Megh... Maybe...

The sad thing isn't that people make technology... most original ideas are pretty good... The sad thing is what technology, what good ideas get turned into by the time it end up on store shelves... Or rather warehouse shelves waiting for robots to pack it onto drones for delivery to us..

murgatroyd314 · October 2016

hphoenix said:

AnotherUserName said:

Stryder87 said:

nicstt said:

... don't be low hanging fruit.

It's the same rule I tell my friends when we go hiking: When you encounter a bear, you don't have to be the fastest runner, just don't be the slowest!!

Unfortunately that point would be moot anyways as I'd be the slowest runner... so I'm lerning to fight the bear!!

Except your not supposed to run from bear. Running prey means food or fun, depending on the mood of the animal.

Once a bear charges you, it doesn't matter if you stand still or run. Just seeing a bear, you should not run, but if the bear is already running for you, RUN. If possible, climb a tree.

Bears don't NORMALLY attack humans. But a mother with cubs can be very defensive, and you never know if any given bear might be rabid, hungry, or any one of a dozen other things that could make them aggressive. If you are attacked, and can't get away, lay face-down, and cover your neck with your arms....and try to be as silent as possible. You'll get mauled, but you may survive.

Best rule: IF you aren't hunting something, and you come across it in the wild, and it is as big or bigger than you are......back away slowly until it cannot see you, then run to a safe distance (a couple of km.)

In a grizzly attack, playing dead is the best option. If it's a black bear, not so much. Play dead with one of those, and it'll start eating the "corpse".

CypherFOX · October 2016

Greetings,

I can say with some certainty that a network connected power outlet is a very nice convenience.

Cursive is nonsense; I'm thrilled my kids won't be subjected to that torture.

The idea that if basic civilization broke down folks who enjoy and rely on technology would be helpless and death-prone is as absurd as the idea that basic civilization would break down in the first place. Look, civilization has a really high level of inertia. It can break down in small pockets briefly, but the whole flows on without pause.

So anyway, there will be IoT snake oil sales folks. But their existence doesn't mean IoT is snake oil, anymore than 419 scammers mean the Internet is snake oil.

Lastly, I want to thank the OP; I'm actually part of my company's pre-emptive DDoS mitigation software development team, and that source code gave us some really good examples of 'real world' attacks. We would have run into it soon enough, but I was able to get key insights into the code before anyone in management knew it existed.

Totally wacky that my hobby would collide with my work like that, but thanks! :)

-- Morgan

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