Heard a rumor about V8

JOdel · September 2016

Yeah, a G4 that's only compatible with DS5 and up does sound possible. So when it lands probably depends on what is going on in development for DS5. Maybe people shouldn't be so fixated on the apparent 2-year development cycle for the figures, and pay a bit more attention to the development cycle of the program.

DS4 launched somewhere around 2011? Or was it 2012? I wandered in around July 2009 and DS3 was the standard, although there were a lot of people still using DS2. I remeber frequent program updates and bug fixes until DS4 came along. A six year development cycle for the program doesn't sound unreasonable. But considering all of the fabulous new tech that's showing up right now, what could they be possibly be working with that they would consider groundbreaking enough to merit the 5.0 label?

Zev0 · September 2016

In my opinion, Daz3D will only release a new base figure line if it is essential to growth. Genesis 2 was released because content developers had issues supporting all shapes on a unimesh (Genesis1), so they split the genders and vendor\content support more than doubled. Genesis 3 was released so that it can be used in other commercial apps and game systems so that it's market does not only appeal to Studio users, thus greater usability. I don't expect a Genesis 4 anytime soon unless it adds a dramatic game changing feature or is essential to market progression, or does something the existing figure line cannot do. V8 can be done on G3:) There is no rule that says every Victoria requires a brand new figure base.

FSMCDesigns · September 2016

fred9803 said:

While we're on the topic of realism, could someone explain what would be needed for DS to produce the hyper-realism of this.

Is it simply beyond what DS and what current DS models are capable of?

Is the level of subdivision/size and quality of textures beyond what most of our pcs can handle? Too resourse intensive for a similarly detailed body to go with the head?

Would it be simply too hard to rig a static head like this for realistic movement and expressions?

While I realise this is just an immovable models head, I wonder what leap in technology would be needed for DS to get to this level of realism from where we currently are.

In case you haven't looked at apps and capabilities outside of DS and this community, you really should. DS is perfectly capable of rendering that model, but are you and other users prepared to pay the price for the amount of work involved in bringing a model of that complexity and speciality to the DS market, probably not. The level of reality you are looking for now has little to do with DS and the plug and play marketplace here and more to do with you, your capabilities and you being able to develop a model from scratch like most of the users you see at CGSociety and other 3D places like that. With each new figure having new and improved features, it's not unlikely down, down, down the road that we'll come closer to the detail and realism you are wanting, we'll just have to wait and see.

DzFire · September 2016

Let me put all the rumors to rest, I finished V8 a few months ago and submitted it to Daz. That is all.

Charlie Judge · September 2016

DzFire said:

Let me put all the rumors to rest, I finished V8 a few months ago and submitted it to Daz. That is all.

Yep. And IIRC DAZ bought it and already has it on the market: http://www.daz3d.com/v8

kyoto kid · September 2016

Serene Night said:

I agree that clothing tech really needs to catch up with the realiism of existing figures We still have figures wearing clothing that has the doughy Genesis 1 feel. Clothing needs to compliment the figure and right now the technology can't even do a decent pair of men's pants and male fiigures have to have their genitalia a separate part and can't even be rendered inside clothing without a lot of fiddling.

...I especially hate it when pant or shirt cuffs are distorted respectively by foot or hand posing or if an extremity is too close to the body, part of the clothing mesh tries to wrap around it.

Haslor · September 2016

Man, Let them finish releasing the Genesis 3 family before talking about Genesis 4 figures.
I think there are a few more members of the family still in the wings, unless they have replaced them with other names.

Zev0 said:

In my opinion, Daz3D will only release a new base figure line if it is essential to growth. Genesis 2 was released because content developers had issues supporting all shapes on a unimesh (Genesis1), so they split the genders and vendor\content support more than doubled. Genesis 3 was released so that it can be used in other commercial apps and game systems so that it's market does not only appeal to Studio users, thus greater usability. I don't expect a Genesis 4 anytime soon unless it adds a dramatic game changing feature or is essential to market progression, or does something the existing figure line cannot do. V8 can be done on G3:) There is no rule that says every Victoria requires a brand new figure base.

I'd agree with that.

I remember hearing something about Genesis 3 family was brought out as a More Orderly and cleaner mesh, to take advantage of the other business opportunities, like gaming. If you compare the messes of G3F and G2F you can see what I am talking about.

Genisis 3 also has more bones for better posing options, that is good.

So no V8 talk unless it fix on a frame and does 0-60 in 3.5 second or better.

SpottedKitty · September 2016

kyoto kid said:
...I especially hate it when pant or shirt cuffs are distorted respectively by foot or hand posing or if an extremity is too close to the body, part of the clothing mesh tries to wrap around it.

The distortion is a pain in the anatomy, isn't it? I wonder if it's possible to add something (can JCM coding do this?) to e.g. a clothes sleeve to detect the twist of the forearm underneath, and partly reverse it?

As for the wrapping, I think that's really a weakness in the Mesh Smoothing/Collision system; I suspect that a proper fix would need a complete rewrite.

murgatroyd314 · September 2016

Haslor said:

Man, Let them finish releasing the Genesis 3 family before talking about Genesis 4 figures.
I think there are a few more members of the family still in the wings, unless they have replaced them with other names.

Zev0 said:

In my opinion, Daz3D will only release a new base figure line if it is essential to growth. Genesis 2 was released because content developers had issues supporting all shapes on a unimesh (Genesis1), so they split the genders and vendor\content support more than doubled. Genesis 3 was released so that it can be used in other commercial apps and game systems so that it's market does not only appeal to Studio users, thus greater usability. I don't expect a Genesis 4 anytime soon unless it adds a dramatic game changing feature or is essential to market progression, or does something the existing figure line cannot do. V8 can be done on G3:) There is no rule that says every Victoria requires a brand new figure base.

I'd agree with that.

I remember hearing something about Genesis 3 family was brought out as a More Orderly and cleaner mesh, to take advantage of the other business opportunities, like gaming. If you compare the messes of G3F and G2F you can see what I am talking about.

Genisis 3 also has more bones for better posing options, that is good.

So no V8 talk unless it fix on a frame and does 0-60 in 3.5 second or better.

No V8 for me. I'm not buying until they release W16.

Petercat · September 2016

I just want three things from DS5.0:

1) It works with existing content and render engines, and

2) It doesn't overwrite existing installations of 4.9, 4.8, etc.

3) New content continues to work with older versions.

Especially that not-overwriting bit. It's really annoying. It took a while for me to figure out how to have 4.8 and 4.9 on the same machine.

AlienRenders · September 2016

Future models need more polygons. You can't do proper morphs anymore. G2 and G3 are super lowres by today's stardards.

Haslor · September 2016

Murgatroyd said:

Haslor said:

Man, Let them finish releasing the Genesis 3 family before talking about Genesis 4 figures.
I think there are a few more members of the family still in the wings, unless they have replaced them with other names.

Zev0 said:

In my opinion, Daz3D will only release a new base figure line if it is essential to growth. Genesis 2 was released because content developers had issues supporting all shapes on a unimesh (Genesis1), so they split the genders and vendor\content support more than doubled. Genesis 3 was released so that it can be used in other commercial apps and game systems so that it's market does not only appeal to Studio users, thus greater usability. I don't expect a Genesis 4 anytime soon unless it adds a dramatic game changing feature or is essential to market progression, or does something the existing figure line cannot do. V8 can be done on G3:) There is no rule that says every Victoria requires a brand new figure base.

I'd agree with that.

I remember hearing something about Genesis 3 family was brought out as a More Orderly and cleaner mesh, to take advantage of the other business opportunities, like gaming. If you compare the messes of G3F and G2F you can see what I am talking about.

Genisis 3 also has more bones for better posing options, that is good.

So no V8 talk unless it fix on a frame and does 0-60 in 3.5 second or better.

No V8 for me. I'm not buying until they release W16.

Exceptable.

kyoto kid · September 2016

SpottedKitty said:

kyoto kid said:
...I especially hate it when pant or shirt cuffs are distorted respectively by foot or hand posing or if an extremity is too close to the body, part of the clothing mesh tries to wrap around it.

The distortion is a pain in the anatomy, isn't it? I wonder if it's possible to add something (can JCM coding do this?) to e.g. a clothes sleeve to detect the twist of the forearm underneath, and partly reverse it?

As for the wrapping, I think that's really a weakness in the Mesh Smoothing/Collision system; I suspect that a proper fix would need a complete rewrite.

...yeah don't know how to write JCMs so out of luck there.

Having a more flexible version of smoothing/collision detection where you could set select different regions to collide with different targets. Would be a real help when layering clothing content as well.

kyoto kid · September 2016

Murgatroyd said:

Haslor said:

Man, Let them finish releasing the Genesis 3 family before talking about Genesis 4 figures.
I think there are a few more members of the family still in the wings, unless they have replaced them with other names.

Zev0 said:

In my opinion, Daz3D will only release a new base figure line if it is essential to growth. Genesis 2 was released because content developers had issues supporting all shapes on a unimesh (Genesis1), so they split the genders and vendor\content support more than doubled. Genesis 3 was released so that it can be used in other commercial apps and game systems so that it's market does not only appeal to Studio users, thus greater usability. I don't expect a Genesis 4 anytime soon unless it adds a dramatic game changing feature or is essential to market progression, or does something the existing figure line cannot do. V8 can be done on G3:) There is no rule that says every Victoria requires a brand new figure base.

I'd agree with that.

I remember hearing something about Genesis 3 family was brought out as a More Orderly and cleaner mesh, to take advantage of the other business opportunities, like gaming. If you compare the messes of G3F and G2F you can see what I am talking about.

Genisis 3 also has more bones for better posing options, that is good.

So no V8 talk unless it fix on a frame and does 0-60 in 3.5 second or better.

No V8 for me. I'm not buying until they release W16.

...but W16 will will require 32 GB of memory and a full 500 GB of free drive space to run. It will take full control of your system, downloading and installing what it thinks you need, deleting what it thinks you no longer need whnever it feels like it, opening the programmes it feels you should be using, tracking everything, and I mean everything you do in life even when away form the computer (for telemetry puposes of course, however a bug in the code will stream all this data to North Korea's Red Star 3 network), and Cortana 6 will nag at you for everything from not changing your socks, to when to put the kettle on for tea, to when to take the dog for walkies.

..oh, and don't even think about X32, that requires top super secret ultraviolet clearance which even the President doesn't have.

Haslor · September 2016

AlienRenders said:

Future models need more polygons. You can't do proper morphs anymore. G2 and G3 are super lowres by today's stardards.

You have to find a balance between Scene composition speed and detail.

Earlier I mentioned that one of the reason for G3 coming out so quickly was to take advantage of other opportunities like Gaming.

Morph 3D is for content for the Unity3D game engine. It is economy of scale, using the same thing for multiple uses. Same mesh, different use, using the same morphs, poses and animation.

If they added more polygons to the Base figure it would no longer be viable for the other uses.

So how does Daz3D give you more polygons and the game developers less, and still use the same basic assets?

The answer: All the Genesis figures support Open Sub-div. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-3L9BOTEtw (Already part of the Genesis 3)

That is how you get the HD versions of the Genesis Figures and how Bill can state his Morphs are HD but don't require the HD add on. Bill has pumped up the polygon count.

So no the next version of Genesis doesn't need more polygons, it need to be more base with the ability to sub-divid more and smaller bits; more bones in the back for cleaner articulation and more Cultural and Genotype base morphs, for more diverse character. More Base Figures Dog and Cat 2.0.

I would like to see Hexagon or some modeler which supports all of the abilities and technologies that are inside Daz Studio. Like a Ptex Painter and better soft body sculpting, OH and more stable (but that is like Sandra saying "World Peace")

WendyLuvsCatz · September 2016

Carrara compatibility

thats all I ask, would put it in my cart without hesitation and buy all the morphpacks etc

and something better than geografting which does not keep it's UV mapping in Carrara and often vanishes altogether in FBX export to iClone

Haslor · September 2016

So... When I said they weren't finished with Genesis 3 Figures, I thought about that and pull out a list of all of the Figures from Genesis 2 and Genesis 3; then I made a table ... and one thing lead to another.
So here is an Unoffical table of the Daz 3D Character's, there fore-family (If this works it will be so cool).

It also shows the posibilities for Genesis 3 figures.

Those in Red Never got out of the door or may have been replaced.
Did Hiro gene pool spawn Kenji 7? Is Gianni 6 and 7 the taking over for The Freak? Or is that Ivan? (He look a little scary to me.)
Josie came out before Michael, so is the Jayden on the bench some place or is Josie odd girl out, like Aiko 6 was with no Hiro 6?
Will David the Odd Take the stage or was he replaced by Leo or Scott. (He is the Odd because he only is release every odd generation)
And where is Victoria's little sister, Stephanie? Surely she wasn't sent to the Gallows?
Will we see other G2F/M figures Mature into Genesis 3 figures? only the Daz 3D Mastermind Knows?

Generation 3	Generation 4	Genesis	Genesis 2	Genesis 3
			Brodie 6	Brodie 7?
			Cory 6	Cory 7
			Darius 6	Darius 7?
David 3		David 5		David 7?
		New Freak? >	Gianni 6	Gianni 7
Hiro 3	Hiro 4	Hiro 5	Hiro 6	Hiro 7?
			x	Ivan 7
			New Hiro? >	Kenji 7
			x	Kimo 7
			Lee 6	Lee 7
			x	Leo 7
Michael 3	Michael 4	Michael 5	Michael 6	Michael 7
			Scott 6	Scott 7?
Luke (Laura Morph)			Teen Jayden 6	Teen Jayden 7?
The Freak 3	The Freak 4	The Freak 5	The Freak 6	The Freak 7?
			x	The Guy 7
Pre-teen Luke		Teen 5 Justin	x	Tween Ryan 7
Aiko 3	Aiko 4	Aiko 5	Aiko 6	Aiko 7
			x	Arabella 7
			Belle 6	Belle 7?
			x	Bethany 7
			Callie 6	Callie 7?
			x	Eva 7
			Gia 6	Gia 7
			Giselle 6	Giselle 7?
			x	Izabella 7
			x	Kalea 7
			x	Karen 7
			Keiko 6	Keiko 7?
			Lilith 6	Lilith 7?
			Mei Lin 6	Mei Lin 7
			Monique 6	Monique 7?
			Ninive 6	Ninive 7?
			Olympia 6	Olympia 7
			x	Rune 7
Stephanie 3	Stephanie 4	Stephanie 5	Stephanie 6	Stephanie 7?
Laura			Teen Josie 6	Teen Josie 7
The Girl 3	The Girl 4	The Girl 5	The Girl 6	The Girl 7
Pre-teen Laura		Tean 5 Julie	x	Tween Julie 7
Victoria 3	Victoria 4	Victoria 5	Victoria 6	Victoria 7
Matt & Mattie	The Kids 4	Basic Child		The Kids 7?

Serene Night · September 2016

I think the next character to be released is Sunny 7. There is also a Lucian 7 and most likely Lilith. I don't think we'll see David or Hiro again. I think Another Cory is unlikely now that we have Guy 7. I am guessing, but I suspect he wasn't a great seller.

kyoto kid · September 2016

..that's sad about David because I thought he was a better all around adult male figure than Mike in both generations. Same for Steph (save for version 5) vs. Vicky.

RCDeschene · September 2016

Haslor said:

So... When I said they weren't finished with Genesis 3 Figures, I thought about that and pull out a list of all of the Figures from Genesis 2 and Genesis 3; then I made a table ... and one thing lead to another.
So here is an Unoffical table of the Daz 3D Character's, there fore-family (If this works it will be so cool).

It also shows the posibilities for Genesis 3 figures.

Those in Red Never got out of the door or may have been replaced.
Did Hiro gene pool spawn Kenji 7? Is Gianni 6 and 7 the taking over for The Freak? Or is that Ivan? (He look a little scary to me.)
Josie came out before Michael, so is the Jayden on the bench some place or is Josie odd girl out, like Aiko 6 was with no Hiro 6?
Will David the Odd Take the stage or was he replaced by Leo or Scott. (He is the Odd because he only is release every odd generation)
And where is Victoria's little sister, Stephanie? Surely she wasn't sent to the Gallows?
Will we see other G2F/M figures Mature into Genesis 3 figures? only the Daz 3D Mastermind Knows?

Generation 3

Generation 4

Genesis

Genesis 2

Genesis 3

Brodie 6

Brodie 7?

Cory 6

Cory 7

Darius 6

Darius 7?

David 3

David 5

David 7?

New Freak? >

Gianni 6

Gianni 7

Hiro 3

Hiro 4

Hiro 5

Hiro 6

Hiro 7?

x

Ivan 7

New Hiro? >

Kenji 7

x

Kimo 7

Lee 6

Lee 7

x

Leo 7

Michael 3

Michael 4

Michael 5

Michael 6

Michael 7

Scott 6

Scott 7?

Luke (Laura Morph)

Teen Jayden 6

Teen Jayden 7?

The Freak 3

The Freak 4

The Freak 5

The Freak 6

The Freak 7?

x

The Guy 7

Pre-teen Luke

Teen 5 Justin

x

Tween Ryan 7

Aiko 3

Aiko 4

Aiko 5

Aiko 6

Aiko 7

x

Arabella 7

Belle 6

Belle 7?

x

Bethany 7

Callie 6

Callie 7?

x

Eva 7

Gia 6

Gia 7

Giselle 6

Giselle 7?

x

Izabella 7

x

Kalea 7

x

Karen 7

Keiko 6

Keiko 7?

Lilith 6

Lilith 7?

Mei Lin 6

Mei Lin 7

Monique 6

Monique 7?

Ninive 6

Ninive 7?

Olympia 6

Olympia 7

x

Rune 7

Stephanie 3

Stephanie 4

Stephanie 5

Stephanie 6

Stephanie 7?

Laura

Teen Josie 6

Teen Josie 7

The Girl 3

The Girl 4

The Girl 5

The Girl 6

The Girl 7

Pre-teen Laura

Tean 5 Julie

x

Tween Julie 7

Victoria 3

Victoria 4

Victoria 5

Victoria 6

Victoria 7

Matt & Mattie

The Kids 4

Basic Child

The Kids 7?

Pretty much. I have my own list that I've been keeping track of, albeit a more simplified version of it:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_7-dyE9mH-Dd0FBZW5INFRxanM

But yeah, DAZ and PAs have pretty much confirmed that characters like David, Freak, and Hiro are done-with. Kenji is the spiritual successor to Hiro as characters like Gianni and Ivan are to Freak (with Gia and Rune doing the same for She Freak in that respect). I've actually very recently inquired DAZ_Steve about a Stephanie 7 and a David successor (which hasn't gotten a reply, no surprise). Either way, I'm quite confident that such is very well in the queue as Stephanie has yet to miss a Generation, and with this awesome trend of "Early-Month Female, Later-Month Male Counterpart" that's been going on, it's highly likely that she will indeed come with a David replacement. Though, if you look at the FBMs of some of the newer female stuff, there seems to be a "Sunny 7" coming soon, so a Stephanie 7/"David Successor" 7 might not happen until the end of this year or next.

nicstt · September 2016

Better cloth and hair is a must.

They are way behind the figures. And also way behind scene components.

wolf359 · September 2016

"Genesis 3 was released so that it can be used in other commercial apps and game systems so that it's market does not only appeal to Studio users, thus greater usability. "

Forgive me but this oft repeated narrative can cause alot of confusion

There is another Game optimized version of the Genesis 3 figures
called the "MCS Male & Female."
https://www.morph3d.com/mcs-morph-character-system

They come in a free "lite" version and a paid "Full" version
Those models are an attempt by DAZ's parent company
to sell the "one figure to rule them all" paradigm to the unity
game dev community.

They are sold under a different license( Standard Unity License),
than the Genesis3 that is sold here to the still render community.

Frankly the Genesis 3 ,sold here, is actually LESS compatible with other pro applications and requires twice the manual labor than Genesis1-2 to get genesis3 functional in other applications such as Autdoesk Maya& Iclone Pro.

on the matter of a potential new genesis 4,
I agree with those who have stated that it would need to offer radically improved abilities like a proper IK solver with usable foot contact for animation .

Zev0 · September 2016

MCS Male & Female is based off Genesis 2, not Genesis 3. The current offering is more of a prototype introducing the concept. The Genesis 3 version is not yet available. Also vendors & 3rd party cannot create and sell content for the current MCS models (Genesis 2). They will be able to do so on the new revision, hense market growth, because the design of Genesis 3 tailors better for 3rd party support outside of Studio.

pwiecek · September 2016

Haslor said:

So... When I said they weren't finished with Genesis 3 Figures, I thought about that and pull out a list of all of the Figures from Genesis 2 and Genesis 3; then I made a table ... and one thing lead to another.
So here is an Unoffical table of the Daz 3D Character's, there fore-family (If this works it will be so cool).
<Snip - Don't really need to take up space by repeating the table>

FYI The original GIRL was unrelated to V3/SP3/Laura exsept that there was a version that shared UV mapping.

Ikyoto · September 2016

DzFire said:

Let me put all the rumors to rest, I finished V8 a few months ago and submitted it to Daz. That is all.

Did you include asymetrical nose morphs so she can pick her nose?

Havos · September 2016

pwiecek said:

Haslor said:

So... When I said they weren't finished with Genesis 3 Figures, I thought about that and pull out a list of all of the Figures from Genesis 2 and Genesis 3; then I made a table ... and one thing lead to another.
So here is an Unoffical table of the Daz 3D Character's, there fore-family (If this works it will be so cool).
<Snip - Don't really need to take up space by repeating the table>

FYI The original GIRL was unrelated to V3/SP3/Laura exsept that there was a version that shared UV mapping.

Was there not an even older Girl, based on Generation 1/2 technology?

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/read_me/index/142/start

wolf359 · September 2016

"MCS Male & Female is based off Genesis 2, not Genesis 3"

Thank you!!! well that certainly explains why the MCS female
animates so easily with a standard character controler in unity 5.5

"They will be able to do so on the new revision, hense market growth, because the design of Genesis 3 tailors better for 3rd party support outside of Studio."

Can you link me to some online technical documentaiton explaining exactly how the G3 rigging makes it better suited for third party Support of Gaming content.

I only ask because as animator who is trying to support G3 with Motion products I have found the the overwhelming majority of my peers Agree that the rig is not very animation friendly and requires much more manual work or specialized scripts, for motion retargeting, than the previous generations.

Bolt · September 2016

AlienRenders said:

Future models need more polygons. You can't do proper morphs anymore. G2 and G3 are super lowres by today's stardards.

Subdivision increases poly count when rendering, so this seems to be a non-issue. If anything, the bone count would likely to increase.

The Genesis 2 model has a surprisely low number of bones, around 80.
Genesis 3 models doubled it, above 170. The bones in the face region have expanded greatly.

But, I think the Gen3 characters still have some issues with realistic facial expressions.

Toyen · September 2016

I think what ruins it is the lack of mimic wrinkles. Our figures all have botox faces while the technology of some sort of dial in normal maps to create mimic wrinkles when the character makes an expression has been in real time gaming for a while now.

Haslor · September 2016

This Victoria woudl like a few less Wrinkles.

The old suit just doesn't fit like it use to.

This is Zev0's Aged morphs with Subdivision at 2 and render SubD at 5.

Notifications

Heard a rumor about V8

Comments

Carrara compatibility

Adding to Cart…