Dear PA's - Eyebrows aren't Mirrors
3Diva
Posts: 11,973
Eyebrows aren't mirrors. Nothing, imo, throws off a closeup of a face faster than a cut and paste eyebrow. Even the most carefully groomed eyebrow isn't going to look EXACTLY like the other eyebrow.
I realize that many, even most, take the time to create subtle differences between the two brows - and that's much appreciated. To those of you who are copy and pasting the same brow and just flipping it over to the other side without any changes or mods, please please stop - it does not look good. First, it makes you look lazy (and considering how much time and work you put into creating your character and making nice looking skin texture, I know you aren't lazy) and second it just really makes the character look off. Even if people can't place what is "off" about it, the mirror brow is uncanny and unsettling. You wouldn't mirror freckles or skin spots, please stop mirroring eyebrows.
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2025 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
I don't think it's that much of an eyebrow issue as it is a face symmetry issue.
Pretty much every model seems to be very symmetrical whereas in real life, people's faces are VERY assymetrical even though we do not notice it by just looking at them.
By just looking at my own 100% never done anything to them natural eyebrows, I can tell you that you would have to look very hard to find a noticable difference between the two.
However, one of them is positioned slightly higher than the other because my face is not 100% symmetrical.
That of course isn't to say that some people do not have noticably assymetrical eyebrows, it's just that I haven't really seen it that much in real life.
A few things probably.
First, faces that are more symmetric are generally considered more beautiful. Second, it's easier to model symmetric meshes.
I'd think it would be pretty easy to shift the textures a bit in Photoshop, or use some morphs to break up the symmetry. There are even asymmetric face morphs available.
I disagree. I think that eyebrows (particularly highly stylized or wispy eyebrows) that are cut and paste is more noticeable and unsettling than a face with symmetry.
While, yes, asymmetry is important if you're going for photorealism and trying to fool the eye, it doesn't, to me, stand out as much as eyebrows that are EXACTLY the same on the left as on the right.
1) Not everyone has Photoshop (many do - but many, too, don't)
2) Not everyone knows how to make modifications like that
3) Expecting your customers to make modifcations to skin textures just to get rid of lazy looking Cut and Paste eyebrows isn't cool - at all
I'm still waiting for painted on hair to not be a thing.
Same here. LOL
Laurie
Sometimes I like painted on hair (unless its the only option). But divamakeup, you're right, it is a bummer when an otherwise useful skin texture has mirror eyebrows. Since my go-to character vendors Raiya and Daz Originals Base do not do this (anymore) I no longer have much concern about it.
When LAMH eyebrows come out soonish, it'll be nice because it's not hard to make them a little random.
As a customer that appreciates the beauty, I'd rather have the symmetry. This is another case of you can't make everyone happy. I suspect the pretty & symmetrical are more popular and sell more, so that's what we get.
Not everyone knows how to use morphs? That's a pretty basic thing with Daz Studio.
In real life we accept asymmetry because it is real life. With something like 3D models very often we read it as a flaw/mistake on the part of the creator rather than something realistic.
Perhaps Daz/Pa's should offer a "made to order" service
For those who suffer from Creative,artistic or even physical limitations that may be preventing them from making even the most minute alterations to their purchased content.
Ummm That's not at all what I was talking about. You where talking about making TEXTURE MODIFICATIONS in Photoshop and that's what I was responding to (hence the bolded section in my response to you).
And there is a difference between the beauty of symmetry and COPY AND PASTING the exact eyebrow from one side of the face to the other. But hey, if you like copy and pasted brows - more power to you. I doubt most people do. Creating subtle differences in the brows, even just tweaking a few hairs, can break up the uncanny look of using the same exact brow and still keep that "beautiful symmetry" look.
I might agree with that, except hair and skin texture doesn't look good or natural when perfectly symmetrical. You might be able to argue that about facial symmetry but skin texture symmetry is different. You don't want the exact same five freckles on one cheek to be on the other cheek in the same exact number and spot on both sides. You don't want that skin spot or beauty mark under the right eye to be in the exact same spot under the left eye. The same with eyebrows, eyebrows that are EXACT mirror images of eachother, with the exact same hairs poking out in the exact same spots, do not look natural.
You expect people to have to know how to paint in photoshop to paint over eyebrows and paint in hairs to fix lazy looking cut and paste eyebrows? I don't think having to repaint skin textures should be expected of customers nor do I think having to repaint textures is something that is "minute alterations". Not everyone who buys and uses characters bought here at Daz has Photoshop or the skills to know how to paint in hairs and make other texture repaints, nor should they be asked to do that when they pay for good textures with their hard earned money. I don't think asking for eyebrows that aren't cut and paste exact copies of eachother is asking too much. In fact, most PAs DO NOT DO THAT - and there is reason for that, because it really doesn't look good.
They had some shampoo or makeup or some sort of modeling competition to pick the prettiest female face in Great Britian and invariably the faces were asymmetric and in fact no perfectly symmetric faces have been found in nature. The winner's face was heavily asymetric and they mirrored the faces in the competition left to right and right to left and unmirrored and it was the unmirrored asymetric faces that won everytime. Something looks very unnatural about the perfectly symmetric faces wereas the asymetric faces looked more natural and friendly. Of course, extreme asymetry is worrisome, it's not attractive to look like Van Gogh on one side and Picasso on the other, and that is seen as unattractive too as a sign of poor health or genetic deformity, like for example, from an abcessed tooth swelling the jaw.
You can try making asymetry facial expressions on DAZ characters to get around the DAZ character's faces symmetry - which is also typical.
I am still curious why eyebrows are on SKIN... That is a 1990's trick. I thought we were past that. Like people who put make-up on skins. Skin should just be skin, period. Eyebrows and lipstick and blush and scars and face-stubble should all be on another rendering layer. Adjustable, removalbe, editable and easy to manipulate without destroying the original image. (Destroying by re-encoding as a JPG again, turning it into a copy of a copy, which degrades image quality.)
Veins too... We (the artists) need to stop using thes old cheap tricks when there are legitimate resolutions that are abundant.
Just my 2-cents added to the issue.
Temporary resolution, edit it post-rendering. Everyone with the internet has access to hundreds of free online photo-editors that can do that.
I think it's because most PAs that create characters still do not see the skin as a separate resource that is useful by itself, while customers have for some time been using them that way. Some are starting to see it, or at least have acknowledged that customers do use them.that way amd are making their new characters without some features being painted on the skin. It may also be an indication of differences between Poser and DAZ Studio, as I don't know if you can use something like the Layered Image Editor (LIE) in Poser to add extra features.
I tend to prefer straighter brows than what is popular for masculine characters in the DAZ store. Just normal straight across slightly thick brows, with no big arch. Genesis 2 started to get really out there with big eyebrows that rocketed towards the sun. Genesis 3 males seem to go for some arch, but also a lot of tweezing which makes me think female skin resources are being used, because these brows aren't usual for men who don't pluck.
I like the option to have brows and browless options but also have begun to use Oh My Brows from Rendo. Great resource. Particularly for men with darker brows. Sometimes too I like to layer the painted on and the fiber ones, so having the options is nice.
We're trying.
All I can do is share the info and let things happen as they will. TBH, I prefer assymetrical brows and the girls that I make from now on will reflect that.
I just picked up Oh My Brows (at 50% off!) and was both surprised and delighted at the number of morphs. One thing I did notice, working with the G3F set, is adding the brows to the scene and then "fit to" to the character left all the named morphs in place. When I had my G3F selected and added the brows, those morphs went missing. Being able to dial in a bit of this and a bit of that makes a great starting point.
The image is Lyoness' LY Emi with the no brow face, and MU08 makeup added using the technique outlined in the how to "Steal" makeup thread. I think it looks pretty good. They are similar, but not totally symmetrical. (ETA: I forgot to mention, I used the "Darkest Brown" iray hair shaders from Mec4D's Unshaven 2.)
And I'm looking forward to adding Kendall Sears LAMH fiber brows to my runtime, too.
When it comes to brows it seams like you're definitely ahead of the pack. I really love that you add different brow colors with your latest characters and even a no-brow option. That's outstanding and much appreciated! The work you do is great and I'm so hoping that more PAs follow your lead and start doing more different colored brow options. :)
I looked it up and Whoa! That sounds like an awesome product. Is there something like that available here at Daz? I've never bought from Rendo and would definitely prefer to keep my money spending here if possible. :)
Nothing quite like that proudct. I have seen one fiber mesh hair. There is one that comes with Horror Surviver Marius, but in my opinon the hairs are too thick. I prefer the look of Oh My Brows. I use it for most of my close up male characters. IT comes with fits for lots of male characters as well.
I will buy from whichever store produces the content first. Renderosity's a pretty inexpensive which I really like.
Oh My Brows does look pretty amazing. I'd be nice to buy something like that from Daz. Ah well, looks like I might be making my first Rendo purchase! lol It looks like it's 50% off until the 23, that gives me a couple more days to decide if I want to spend money now or wait until later. :D Is 50% off usually as low as it gets there or do they have crazy cool stacking sales like here when you sometimes can get like 80% or more off?
I've not heard of that before, where can I read up on it? :)
If you want Oh My Brows, I highly recommend you do not wait. In my (somewhat limited) experience, 50% is really good, and not all that common. They do not have the crazy cool stacking sales we see here at DAZ. Installing products from Rendo is pretty simple. I'll be happy to walk you through it, if you need a bit of help.
Kendall has been hinting, (and hinting, and hinting,) in a variety of posts in various threads, including this one simply titled Brows. (Kendall shows up on page 2.) LAMH is Look At My Hair. There is a free LAMH player, as well as the full plugin. I'm sure you've noticed some stunning animals from Alessandro_AM. They use the LAMH system to create that great furry look.
Oh yeah, I really wanted to get LAMH when it was like 50% off recently, but couldn't get the hubby to give me the go ahead. Now I have a bit of money that's come in, but I don't want to pay full price. I definitely will wait for it to go on sale again. :)
Thanks for the offer to help me with installing Rendo products, I might take you up on that. Any other "must have items" from there that you can recommend? I'm not very familiar with that site and only visit their freebie page. lol Oh My Brows is the type of product I've been waiting for but didn't know existed. Any other items like that or any "must haves" that you can recommend?
Easy enough for people Like myself with a 20 year Career behind them as a professional Graphic Designer.
But apparently not an option for everyone due to various reasons even rigid philosophical ones.
But you are so spot on about 1990's methods still being widely used like the transmapped painted hair textures that look just bloody awfulin these new PBR engines or the flat cartoonish eye Iris textures.
To My mind these are the things that are making DAZ/poser figures look so fake much more than perfect left/right facial symmetry.
I hope not. I would prefer a variety, with symmetrical brows for some of the models. Not everyone agrees with the OP. I don't.
Some of the very same vendors that sell here, sell there. Different products though, so you're missing out if you don't look over there.