Bye Bye Daz3d

1111214161719

Comments

  • KludgeKludge Posts: 354
    edited October 2012

    Faerydae said:
    Kludge said:

    Poser has the assorted Mikis, GND, BND and Anastasia who don't map all that well, if at all, to Studio. Do you hear any DAZ people complaining? Yet DAZ introduces ONE model that doesn't map well to Poser and elements of the Poser community get all upset because there's a toy they can't play with nice and easily.

    Daz users aren't complaining about Miki, etc. because SM has never been a supplier of DS content. That's the thing a lot of DS users can't seem to grasp.

    From what I can see, all of the earlier Poser characters can be imported into Studio which makes sense considering Studio was built to handle DAZ's products which were for Poser. I'm not sure why anyone would do that but there it is. Bewildered Posette in Studio with a feather ... or some such. (I know, it doesn't flow as nicely as NVIATWAS but I couldn't come up with anything better.)

    Then Smith Micro introduced characters that didn't work all that well in Studio. Dey Got Toiz We Doesn't! An' der's Stuph out there for dem we can't use! An' da hue and cry went up all over DAZ-land and all was sadness and mortification. Not.

    But now DAZ has Genesis and the world is suddenly no longer spinning properly on its axis which has tumbled anyway and dogs & cats are living together and Lower Slobovia has discovered fire and all sorts of other horrific things are happening. Never mind that DAZ is still being nice to Poser users since they are a strong part of the customer base. We Haz Genesis and that's all that counts. Well, we haz toiz for Genesis too which are an obvious indicator that DAZ has abandoned Poser (et al) users. Not.

    So now comes a question. If having one character that doesn't work with Poser while still releasing Poser-friendly products is "abandoning the user base", then what would it be if they really did quit selling anything Poser-friendly?

    If SM (and other Poser owners) had always been a place to find DS content, and then things drastically changed you all might be able to understand our frustration.

    That's just it, I don't understand it since you still have the absolute Queen of all, V4. You have characters DAZ users can't use - popular ones like Alyson 2 and GND. Genesis can be exported to Poser - albeit as a "Genesis Lite" version at present - as a CR2 and from all indications, something is being worked on to improve that exportability. GOK what at present but something. This doesn't sound like "abandoning the user base" to me. If it does to you then by all means follow your heart and if that means leaving DAZ for other sources then enjoy. I know I use several sources not just DAZ as I'm sure many do. I buy from who has what I need and if several do the one that matches my budget best wins.


    No argument with the last sentence. But their problem isn't with Vickie, it's with Genesis. Since Genesis doesn't yet work well with other software, they want to quit. That is being freakishly childish.


    Do you mean quitting the hobby or quitting DAZ?

    The OP is quitting 3D art but if it's that or just the PC or DAZ or whatever else comes to mind fits, then it's it still comes down to the same thing. "Boohoo, I'm gonna take my marbles and go home." Cool. Enjoy.

    Edit to add: As a note, my preferred model is V4 and platform is DS3A. I have Poser 7 because it has features Studio doesn't so using them together works out pretty nicely.

    Post edited by Kludge on
  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 589
    edited December 1969

    Kludge said:
    You have characters DAZ users can't use - popular ones like Alyson 2 and GND

    you can use the GND on genesis,

    GND4_2.jpg
    1372 x 841 - 330K
  • KludgeKludge Posts: 354
    edited December 1969

    fixme12 said:
    Kludge said:
    You have characters DAZ users can't use - popular ones like Alyson 2 and GND

    you can use the GND on genesis,

    Oh, now that's cool. Alyson 2 et al as well?

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 589
    edited October 2012

    Kludge said:
    fixme12 said:
    Kludge said:
    You have characters DAZ users can't use - popular ones like Alyson 2 and GND

    you can use the GND on genesis,

    Oh, now that's cool. Alyson 2 et al as well?

    Alyson2, yes but not without alot of work. it is a poser figure and not based on V4, no direct morph switch with GenX.
    you can import the figure in studio and weightmapping the figure.
    but without a well good explaning manual, i wouldn't start on that part.

    Post edited by Fixme12 on
  • KludgeKludge Posts: 354
    edited December 1969

    fixme12 said:
    Kludge said:
    fixme12 said:
    Kludge said:
    You have characters DAZ users can't use - popular ones like Alyson 2 and GND

    you can use the GND on genesis,

    Oh, now that's cool. Alyson 2 et al as well?
    Alyson2, yes but not without alot of work. it is a poser figure and not based on V4, no direct morph switch with GenX.
    you can import the figure in studio and weightmapping the figure.
    but without a well good explaning manual, i wouldn't start on that part.

    Thanks. I've seen a lot of stuff for GND and now I find I can port her to Genesis. This widens my horizons greatly. Mahalo!

  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 589
    edited December 1969

    Kludge said:
    fixme12 said:
    Kludge said:
    fixme12 said:
    Kludge said:
    You have characters DAZ users can't use - popular ones like Alyson 2 and GND

    you can use the GND on genesis,

    Oh, now that's cool. Alyson 2 et al as well?

    Alyson2, yes but not without alot of work. it is a poser figure and not based on V4, no direct morph switch with GenX.
    you can import the figure in studio and weightmapping the figure.
    but without a well good explaning manual, i wouldn't start on that part.

    Thanks. I've seen a lot of stuff for GND and now I find I can port her to Genesis. This widens my horizons greatly. Mahalo!

    We really don't have seen the real power behind GENESIS today!

    i would think about DS4.5 as some earlier but working/playable Beta-phase.
    you can play with it now and daz is still working on a big list of features that are still in progress and we see soon in another studio version 5.
    i still can't think about a studio version without playing with genesis dynamic hair a dynamiccloth builder and animate genesis inside studio, without export genesis to motionbuilder to do some animation.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited December 1969

    fixme12 said:
    Kludge said:
    You have characters DAZ users can't use - popular ones like Alyson 2 and GND

    you can use the GND on genesis,

    Only the V4 version GND. The Alyson 2 GND, Anastasia (which the new content is for), is poser only.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited October 2012

    Kludge said:

    Thanks. I've seen a lot of stuff for GND and now I find I can port her to Genesis. This widens my horizons greatly. Mahalo!

    You're getting the Alyson 2 (Anastasia) stuff confused with the V4. Alyson clothing can be converted to V4 with tools like Wardrobe Wizard. The V4 GND is a bit more difficult because it requires the GND shape. It was not made on the default V4, so you'll need a tool to manually reshape it to V4 before it can be converted.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    When Genesis was introed I said it would be the wedge that finally separates Studio and Poser. Even though there was the on going app war between Poser and Studio most content worked or was made to work in both apps. Soon after DAZ introed genesis Poser released their own version of a weight mapped figure. Now it seems nether side is will to do what ever has to be done so apps can share content again. A marketing choice I'm sure.

    I'm a carraraest, used to set back and watch the app war because I could use content in carrara as well as if not better then ether app. But it seems DAZ is bound and determined to turn carrara in to another flavor of studio. With each new build carrara becomes more like studio, right down to the "hide the tools you use most" interface. As in 0pose and 0morph used to be buttons in the figures general menu, Now they are hidden in a sub menu in the animation. If you didn't know where to look you wouldn't be able to find them. And these are features I use a lot. More over since we are not marketing what us users want doesn't count. If it did carrara wouldn't be in the shape it's in now; a year in the .5 beta and lagging way behind every other app of it's type.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 13,189
    edited October 2012

    And some would argue thats the look they want for Carrara. You can't please everyone. Someone is always going to be ticked off at DAZ some odd reason.

    Post edited by frank0314 on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 2,995
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    And some would argue thats the look they want for Carrara. You can't please everyone. Someone is always going to be ticked off at DAZ some odd reason.

    Yep! I *LIKE* the way Carrara is progressing. I've been a Carrara user since just before the release of 6. Then I bought 6pro. I was never a fan of the "room" interface. However, Carrara's other strengths outweighed the clunky interface.

    Kendall

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 13,189
    edited December 1969

    I don't have the time to learn new software but I did like what I saw in Carrara when I played the one day.

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 1,606
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    I'm a carraraest, used to set back and watch the app war because I could use content in carrara as well as if not better then ether app. But it seems DAZ is bound and determined to turn carrara in to another flavor of studio. With each new build carrara becomes more like studio, right down to the "hide the tools you use most" interface. As in 0pose and .


    Yea, being a Carraraest had its advantages. The changing interface is not changing in a desirable way.
    If I wanted to use DS more I would.
    Maybe they'll stop before they go too far.

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 1,606
    edited December 1969

    Kludge said:

    Today I was working with a scene that had elements from Gen1 to Gen4 and they all played together nicely. Genesis changed all that.

    No, it didn't. Don't use Genesis. Simple as that. There is no requirement that anyone use any character, much the less a new one that doesn't work well in other software.

    Well, actually it does. Read my sentence again. All the generations played in the same sandbox happily together. Gen4 hair on Gen1 figures. Gen 2 era props wielded by Gen4 figures. I cannot load Gen5 characters or even Gen 5 hair into the scenes. Sounds like a change to me.


    Kludge said:
    Recently, a freebie was released that could only be used in DS4. The freebie was a prop, so it just as well could have been made for Poser and Daz.

    Could you refresh my memory on this because it's not ringing any bells.

    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/shadow-warrior-addons
    Nice little set that could just as well been available for Poser and Genesis.

    Kludge said:
    Faerydae said:
    Then Smith Micro introduced characters that didn't work all that well in Studio. Dey Got Toiz We Doesn't! An' der's Stuph out there for dem we can't use! An' da hue and cry went up all over DAZ-land and all was sadness and mortification. Not.


    There was no sadness and mortification because Smith Micros figures just aren't that popular. I know Poser users who ONLY use DAZ figures. You really aren't comparing the same things.
    Daz make THE figures.


    So now comes a question. If having one character that doesn't work with Poser while still releasing Poser-friendly products is "abandoning the user base", then what would it be if they really did quit selling anything Poser-friendly?


    I guess you never heard of the "slippery slope." Today it's one figure. Tomorrow it's props. The next day it's buildings. The next...


    The OP is quitting 3D art but if it's that or just the PC or DAZ or whatever else comes to mind fits, then it's it still comes down to the same thing. "Boohoo, I'm gonna take my marbles and go home." Cool. Enjoy.


    Sometimes it's time to take your marbles and go home. If it's not fun anymore, why play?


    Edit to add: As a note, my preferred model is V4 and platform is DS3A. I have Poser 7 because it has features Studio doesn't so using them together works out pretty nicely.


    This statement makes no sense to me when looking at all your posts.
    If V4 is your model of choice, and DS3A and Poser7 are your platforms (neither of which can use Genesis) then why are you fighting so hard for Genesis?
    That would be like a Pepsi user petitioning their local grocer to stop carrying Pepsi and start carrying Jarrito's Cola.

    Maybe you're just having a little fun on the internet today.
    That's fine. Fun is good.

  • SockrateaseSockratease Posts: 813
    edited December 1969

    I have my own issues with Daz...

    In way of explanation : my first Poser Render!

    but.jpg
    1067 x 668 - 303K
  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 1,606
    edited December 1969

    Sockratese


    A lot of us have been meaning to talk to you about this.
    No one wanted to hurt your feelings.


    The people at Daz did something really bad at their corporate luncheon.
    You see, they had made a Millennium Cow, but he looked so good...

    Burgers2.PNG
    360 x 460 - 284K
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 2,995
    edited December 1969

    tsarist said:
    Sockratese


    A lot of us have been meaning to talk to you about this.
    No one wanted to hurt your feelings.


    The people at Daz did something really bad at their corporate luncheon.
    You see, they had made a Millennium Cow, but he looked so good...

    Would you quit that! Now I'm craving Millennium Cow, errr, hamburgers.

    :-)

    Kendall

  • ColdrakeColdrake Posts: 236
    edited October 2012

    I have my own issues with Daz...

    In way of explanation : my first Poser Render!

    Where did you get that cool cowch she's sitting on?


    Coldrake

    Post edited by Coldrake on
  • SockrateaseSockratease Posts: 813
    edited October 2012

    Surely they made a back up before they cooked her?

    Coldrake said:
    Where did you get that cool cowch she's sitting on?


    Coldrake

    It's free with Poser Debut - I just scaled it along one axis to fit The Cow.

    Post edited by Sockratease on
  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 13,189
    edited December 1969

    tsarist said:
    Sockratese


    A lot of us have been meaning to talk to you about this.
    No one wanted to hurt your feelings.


    The people at Daz did something really bad at their corporate luncheon.
    You see, they had made a Millennium Cow, but he looked so good...

    Boy those look really good. Add a few pieces of bacon and they'd be golden.

  • ChristenChristen Posts: 240
    edited December 1969

    Kludge said:

    But now DAZ has Genesis and the world is suddenly no longer spinning properly on its axis which has tumbled anyway and dogs & cats are living together and Lower Slobovia has discovered fire and all sorts of other horrific things are happening. Never mind that DAZ is still being nice to Poser users since they are a strong part of the customer base. We Haz Genesis and that's all that counts. Well, we haz toiz for Genesis too which are an obvious indicator that DAZ has abandoned Poser (et al) users. Not.

    Daz isn't being nice to Poser users. If they choose to continue supporting Poser users, it's for their money, as with any other company.

    So now comes a question. If having one character that doesn't work with Poser while still releasing Poser-friendly products is "abandoning the user base", then what would it be if they really did quit selling anything Poser-friendly?

    If you or anyone else is really still in denial about the changes around here as far as Poser compatible products, nothing I can do to convince you. Something was said months ago (was it the new CEO?) about continuing with the Genesis technology for their future figures. If this is the case, I'm sure Poser support will stop all together here at some point.

    If SM (and other Poser owners) had always been a place to find DS content, and then things drastically changed you all might be able to understand our frustration.

    That's just it, I don't understand it since you still have the absolute Queen of all, V4. You have characters DAZ users can't use - popular ones like Alyson 2 and GND. Genesis can be exported to Poser - albeit as a "Genesis Lite" version at present - as a CR2 and from all indications, something is being worked on to improve that exportability. GOK what at present but something. This doesn't sound like "abandoning the user base" to me. If it does to you then by all means follow your heart and if that means leaving DAZ for other sources then enjoy. I know I use several sources not just DAZ as I'm sure many do. I buy from who has what I need and if several do the one that matches my budget best wins.

    If that many people want those characters and they don't work in DS, they should be asking for DS versions of them, just like we ask for Poser versions of things we want.

    Some people have no desire or time learn to use DS, and others (like me) cannot run DS at all or get it to work well enough to even attempt to use the exporter. I'm sure Daz doesn't want to abandon Poser users, if for no other reason than $. We are/were a huge part of their income. I shop at the other stores a lot more over the last year or so than I used to. I never used to limit myself to shopping here, but always tried to spend my money here first for some reason.

    Edit to add: As a note, my preferred model is V4 and platform is DS3A. I have Poser 7 because it has features Studio doesn't so using them together works out pretty nicely.

    If you prefer DS3A and V4 you belong on the frustrated side of the fence.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,517
    edited December 1969

    Kludge said:
    People aren't being freakishly childish. They are being incredibly logical. Vicky isn't just another figure. She is THE figure.

    No argument with the last sentence. But their problem isn't with Vickie, it's with Genesis. Since Genesis doesn't yet work well with other software, they want to quit. That is being freakishly childish.
    ...no, some of us just feel there is less and less that Daz has to offer if one doesn't or cannot use 4.x/Genesis.

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    edited December 1969

    If software is upgraded with newer versions, new features require different and new system requirements. If a software company limits itself with the original system requirements then the new features we come to love are not possible, rendering the software obsolete as the other software companies will overtake them like a horse and cart on a freeway.

    It's the same with every other form of software, DVD's, CD's, Photoshop, Video Games, Word Applications etc. You cant seriously expect any software company to continue to upgrade obsolete software. It's unpractical, ridiculously costly and not necessary. Those of us who play the latest revolutionary PC Games must upgrade. Simple as that.

    I'm not targeting anyone, I'm just laying out the facts.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,517
    edited December 1969

    ...all I am saying is as Daz continues on this path, there is less and less they will have to offer for those of us who cannot afford to keep pace. In the past it was not as quite as difficult for the base models and meshes still for the most part worked in older versions of the application, However, 4.x and Genesis are a major departure, a watershed of sorts, and some of us are unfortunately caught on the "other" side and thus see little incentive to remain. I wish it didn't have to be this way, but that is the nature of business and progress.


    I believe that is the gist of this thread.

  • SpyroRueSpyroRue Posts: 5,020
    edited December 1969

    I agree it does suck, and you of all people know that even my computer barley runs 4.5. but it's not something I blame daz for, and I acknowledge that yes I need a more modem computer. I was in your shoes when 2011 3ds max came out, but at the end of the day this is the world of technology. So yeah, it may be long time to save up, but you do get there if you put your mind to it. :)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,517
    edited December 1969

    ...it's not even so much the hardware as it's having to also get all the Gen5 clothing content (Autofit is far from even "adequate"), plugins, and such all over again to get to the level I already have with S3A/Poser Pro2010. Just not in the cards budget-wise anymore with RL expenses becoming more difficult to handle on an income that isn't keeping pace.

  • T JaimanT Jaiman Posts: 560
    edited October 2012

    Surely they made a back up before they cooked her?


    Um, well, they thought they had...

    I hear it was some kind of "I thought you did." things. :grrr:


    Sorry, man... I wish they hadn't let go of the guy who designed it.

    He was working on K5 and the K4 shape, and they decided they weren't going to do that, so they didn't need him.

    Post edited by T Jaiman on
  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,184
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    tsarist said:
    Sockratese


    A lot of us have been meaning to talk to you about this.
    No one wanted to hurt your feelings.


    The people at Daz did something really bad at their corporate luncheon.
    You see, they had made a Millennium Cow, but he looked so good...

    Boy those look really good. Add a few pieces of bacon and they'd be golden.

    Well We know what happened to the Mil Pig now too!! ROTFLMAO

  • KludgeKludge Posts: 354
    edited December 1969

    tsarist said:

    Kludge said:

    Today I was working with a scene that had elements from Gen1 to Gen4 and they all played together nicely. Genesis changed all that.
    No, it didn't. Don't use Genesis. Simple as that. There is no requirement that anyone use any character, much the less a new one that doesn't work well in other software.
    Well, actually it does. Read my sentence again. All the generations played in the same sandbox happily together. Gen4 hair on Gen1 figures. Gen 2 era props wielded by Gen4 figures. I cannot load Gen5 characters or even Gen 5 hair into the scenes. Sounds like a change to me.
    So? As I said, don't use Genesis. Your sandbox still works as is. There is nothing saying you absolutely positively have to add it.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that, yes, Genesis is a whole new ballgame but no one has to play who doesn't want to or can't for whatever reason.

    Kludge said:
    Recently, a freebie was released that could only be used in DS4. The freebie was a prop, so it just as well could have been made for Poser and Daz.
    Could you refresh my memory on this because it's not ringing any bells.
    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/shadow-warrior-addons
    Nice little set that could just as well been available for Poser and Genesis.
    The Shadow Warriors for which it's an add-on is a Genesis product so it makes sense that it would also be for Genesis.

    Kludge said:
    Then Smith Micro introduced characters that didn't work all that well in Studio. Dey Got Toiz We Doesn't! An' der's Stuph out there for dem we can't use! An' da hue and cry went up all over DAZ-land and all was sadness and mortification. Not.
    There was no sadness and mortification because Smith Micros figures just aren't that popular. I know Poser users who ONLY use DAZ figures. You really aren't comparing the same things.
    Did you notice the "Not" at the end of that?

    So there exist Poser users who only use DAZ products. That's cool. How many are there who use a mix or only Poser figures? Yes, we know that V4 is the Crowning Achievement in all 3D-land and all other figures pale in her presence but not everyone sees her that way. I know several folks who love playing with Poser's figures, especially the newer ones. And I know one individual who still uses Posette and Dork almost exclusively. She upgrades Poser all the time but stays with those two figures. I have no idea why.
    Daz make THE figures.


    DAZ is predominant with the figures but not everyone shares your belief. As I said, there are those who prefer to "keep it in the family" and use only Poser figures. Are they wrong in doing so or are they free to make their own choices?
    So now comes a question. If having one character that doesn't work with Poser while still releasing Poser-friendly products is "abandoning the user base", then what would it be if they really did quit selling anything Poser-friendly?

    I guess you never heard of the "slippery slope." Today it's one figure. Tomorrow it's props. The next day it's buildings. The next...

    Of course I have. I also know that DAZ knows where their bread and butter comes from. If they went to a strictly Studio 4.5 (or later) and Genesis environment they'd not only lose the Poser contingent but most of the folks who use Studio, Bryce and Carrara which pretty well wipes out their customer base. They're not in the business of going bankrupt.
    The OP is quitting 3D art but if it's that or just the PC or DAZ or whatever else comes to mind fits, then it's it still comes down to the same thing. "Boohoo, I'm gonna take my marbles and go home." Cool. Enjoy.

    Sometimes it's time to take your marbles and go home. If it's not fun anymore, why play?
    If it takes that little to make it not fun anymore, then why get in the game in the first place?
    Edit to add: As a note, my preferred model is V4 and platform is DS3A. I have Poser 7 because it has features Studio doesn't so using them together works out pretty nicely.
    This statement makes no sense to me when looking at all your posts.
    If V4 is your model of choice, and DS3A and Poser7 are your platforms (neither of which can use Genesis) then why are you fighting so hard for Genesis? That would be like a Pepsi user petitioning their local grocer to stop carrying Pepsi and start carrying Jarrito's Cola.
    I said preferred model, not exclusive one. Same with DS3A and P7. Why? Because I find them easier to deal with while I'm learning. I actually started with DS4 Beta and Genesis but dropped back and went with something more newbie friendly. Meanwhile, I've got Studio 4.5 and Genesis with all the bells and whistles to play with while I'm figuring out what I'm doing with the more mature and stable products. I could probably do with V4 or even the V4 morph for Genesis and DS4.5 but the DS4.x product isn't stable yet and I'm not fond of the idea of no backward compatibility. So, for now, I keep the two separate. At the same time, I see tremendous potential with Genesis as sort of an "omnimesh" that can be anything or anyone the modeller chooses. This will require a stable version of Studio that will support it and that hasn't happened yet. Do I think one will happen? Not completely but one stable enough to be useable probably will. Oh, and what's Jarrito's Cola?
    Maybe you're just having a little fun on the internet today.
    That's fine. Fun is good.
    If that's what you think, it's cool. Doesn't bother me a bit.
  • KludgeKludge Posts: 354
    edited December 1969

    KageRyu said:
    Just for the record, Kyoto Kid is not the only person to have stability problems with DS3A in 32 bit environments. Daz3D was aware of them, and there were countless posts in the old forums and promises to fix not just stability issues, but other features in DS3A that never worked properly, as well as to finish a complete manual for the customers. All of these were abandoned when Daz went to version 4, and everyone who complained was jumped on ande accused of Daz-Bashing, and met with constant replies like "I'm not having those problems, so it must be YOUR computer".

    Nice to see it's continuing.


    Ummm... they DID fix those problems. They just called it DS4.

    Kendall
    Which, in turn, introduced a new set of problems. :lol:

Sign In or Register to comment.