The prices are getting out of hand
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One thing to consider- naturally, everyone looks at it from their perspective, and if you are a hobbyist playing around with 3D, you might not always think about the business folks who get to deduct these expenses for their taxes. Or the fact the company, not the person, is paying for the products. Vendors sell to both hobbyists and business people. And vendors are doing this for a business, not to give hobbyists a good time.
They consider the hobbyists by putting their stores on sale (my goodness, you can't complain about those prices. Lilith Bundle for $6.95? Characters for $7.98? You go model a person and see if you would take a ONE HOUR MINIMUM WAGE pay for it.) I'm not saying they shouldn't try to please the hobbyists, but they're not the only fish in the sea to be fed. And the bigger fish contribute a lot too to the pot. Note I said "too." Many of us hobbyists spend a TON of money here- but the point is, we can wait until its on sale and / or "old" and use our $6 discount code on it. Old is after 60 days. Big deal, wait for it if you're a hobbyist.
If you're a business person and not part of a big company, you may or may not have more limited capital to work with- hopefully with all the sales, you have more than enough things offered at any given time that are on sale to use, plus a backlog of things you've bought. I think the bottom line is this question-
IF YOU WERE MAKING IT, HOW MUCH WOULD YOU CHARGE? (Still think it's expensive?)
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or the creators will have to get a day job and their releases will largely or entirely cease.
I can imagine the stress of making a living doing this- anytime you're in sales, you live paycheck to paycheck and the uncertainty is always there. Too much uncertainty and the person decides it isn't worth it, and you're right, they get another job which eats into their production time.
One thing this store SORELY lacks is the ability to gift products to other people. I don't know exactly how that works, but Renderosity has it so it can't be that hard to do. It would be nice to be able to gift something discounted if we already have the bonus items (like those spaceships for instance- I have them all so it would be nice to gift one of them.)
Yep. Still think it is expensive. I decided a while ago not to make a living doing art. I was an art major. I make a living with another job, and do art on the side. If I were a pa, I would make stuff affordable.. I couldn't in good conscience charge some of the prices asked. Everyone has their threshold of what is a 'fair price'. And for me, some of the prices here have become exorbitant.
Are they really for what is involved in making them do all of the things that potential buyers would want them to? I'd rather buy a product that someone took the time to create enough movement that I could pose the jacket however I wanted than a product where the vendor tossed in 5 different versions of it with the jacket in fixed positions. The latter might be lower cost (and there actually is one of these in another store) but it's also of lower utility to me.
Nowadays when I do art commissions, I do it for friends at absurdly low prices, mainly for the validation of being paid and for the security of doing it for friends.
Because the problem is? Most people are unwilling/unable to pay what a lot of stuff is actually worth.
Similarly at the end of my engineering career, I had to try to make a living repairing PC computers for people. I scratched out an existence but it wasn't much of a living. If I actually charged for the actual hours that I put into each computer that came into the shop I'd have to charge $200 for an average job. But when somebody brings in a computer and you start talking over $80 to fix it they start thinking new computer.
I actually felt guilty when the price went over $100. I had many times when I had to wake up in the middle of the night and come down to the lab and start another virus check or long running diagnostic. I developed back problems huntched over the keyboard. I burned out my eyeballs browsing the web for symptoms and answers to problems. And I and got fat from lack of exercise, lack of sleep and bad eating habits. 
Retirement is much easier on this old body, and actually more profitable . 
We're all buying the extended licence to use 3D assets as part of a finished render that can then be monetized without further fees.
This is rarer than it reads with digital art stuff (I'm looking directly and accusingly at you, Content Marketplace, you and your titchy, tiny small print).
Daz is very like digital audio workstation construction kits and VSTs in that (and in fact several other) respects.
If it's getting costly, it's time to start rendering stuff that sells. This is an esoteric hobby that can morph into a second career almost seemlessly with no residual fees to cost. With added enlightenment about the market value of digital imagery thrown in for free when you do start selling stuff. I'd say art is the hardest dollar there is to make a sustained living from; what sells this year simply does not the next. It's why we mostly sidestep into peripheral services for things that do sell year in, year out, or keep a day job.
As a PC+ and Prime member, I have found that, in a head-to-head (hair-to-hair, character-to-character, prop-to-prop) comparison, Daz is cheaper than Renderosity and RDNA (before the merger) IF you ONLY buy items on sale. True; new non-PC+ items are more expensive than average, but after two months (if the vendor is somewhat prolific) you can get them for 45-55% off during a sale. Once I have seen an item on sale at a low price, I refuse to purchase it for a higher price unless I must have it immediately. After repeatedly missing sales (due to lack of funds) in which Dragon Clutch and Dragon Clutch 2 were $28 each, my apparent misfortune was revealed as blessing when I got them both for a total of $12+ (a 92% discount) earlier this month. Last year, I purchased 120 non-PC+ items for $340 during an M4/V4 sale.
I frequently purchase non-PC+ hair from Daz for $5 to $9. (I refuse to spend more than $13 for hair, new or not, no matter who made it, and I don't have to pay more than that because there is always going to be a sale). With OOT's 60% Rendo sale I am afforded the opportunity to do likewise, and their Prime Flash sales bring many items down to a range that is comparable (though usually not superior) to Daz's sales prices. Daz clothing is generally higher in price than something at Renderosity, but the hi-quality vendors' prices on each site are very similar. Renderosity has little in the way of high-resolution medium to large sets; so, there can be no comparison (except for Powerage, and his prices are in Stonemason territory). In fact, the only categories I can think of where Renderosity clearly beats Daz are cars (thanks to TruForm) and NEW V4 characters, (but that is victory by default).
It seems sticker shock is often the issue when people complain of Daz's high prices. I suggest totally disregarding the MSRP (regular price), and only pay attention to how much products cost on sale. (I got Fern Lake and Through the Woods new for less than $27)! I have never cared for shopping, but Daz has brought the latent shopper in me to life. At first, I resisted, but (like any programming) if you fight it, you lose the benefits. If mathematics/English is not your strong suit, throw your favorites into your cart, and then carefully eliminate things until you get to your budget price. With less money, it is still possible to get the most out of Daz. But I have to spend more time, and I must reserve my emotions for my personal relationships and my art. There are so many beautiful souls in this community, and that, for me, was an unexpected boon of 3D art.
Everyone has different views of what is affordable, and what they think is a fair price for an item. Because these views differ, does not mean that either person is right, or that, one view is the correct one, or that someone lacks knowldege or understanding of the depth or history of the issues. it means they disagree on the cost of the item.
As a customer service rep, I know most people don't complain for no reason. They complain because they have a problem or they don't like something or they find it frustating. This information can actually be very helpful.
DAZ prices are higher, and some people are frustated by this issue. That seems a valid thing. They have recently gone up. Historically, we understand things were higher, but many people haven't been here that long.
This is a general comment and not addressing anyone in particular.
I am sympathetic to this. Especially with the cost of new computers being low, I Suspect computer repair may be a thing limited to high-end computers in the future.
I think they actually have some great sales here... I was away for a long time because I was a Poser only user and popped in one time to find all V4 stuff for under $2.00! And recently they had the huge Voodoo Bundle for $6.95 as well as many other bundles and other high priced things, and a ton of older stuff, even G2 stuff for around $2.00-$4.00, and RDNA products ridiculously cheap as PC items (some items are REALLY old though). What drives me crazy though, is after you buy something, it shows the purchase at full price, even if it was a freebie and sometimes I freak out and wonder "Did I really pay $24.95 for this? Or why did I buy THIS?" And then I realize it was a freebie or on huge discount, but I have no idea what I actually paid for it.... Also the Platinum Club, although more expensive than Rendo's Prime, does offer better deals, sometimes on sale down to 45 cents(!) where Rendo ruined their Prime with prices often over $10.00. Right now they are having some huge sales, I think to get some customers back who were leaving...
Dragon clutch, neat! Putting in my wishlist to wait for 90+% off again. ;)
You're not wrong prices are up but so is the quality. But over all sales remain the same for most of us. I would love to sell so many copies of a product that a much lower price point was possible, which is how the free market system works. I'm pretty reasonable when It comes to pricing, I think. Personally I would much rather sell 300 units at $10 VS 100 units at $30 but that's just me and I can't fault the seller if he only has 100 die hard fans who are sure to by the product.
As for all the sales, I kind of hate them. But you see that's because I try to keep the price down. I put $10 on a set and they knock off 30% so now it's $7 and keep in mind I get 50% of that so I see $3.50. I am not trying to get a sympathy here just giving the facts. That’s why I need more than 100 buyers or I need to up the price to make it all work.
So, Should you complain, Hell yes complain no one wants higher prices! But also tell everyone you can about DAZ, have DAZ parties where you give out Daz Studio. I bet some PAs would even kick in free prizes. Get as many new people buying as you can. Not for the sake of DAZ they are doing fine they get 50% of everything. It’s you favorite PAs that’s upping prices to make their living livable. Trust me I know these people and they are hard working average Joes.
So sorry to drop in here I wanted you to know at least someone is listening. : )
I betatested MD3 (I think they're up to 5 now) and there were some things that were very annoying (which I imaging by now many have been fixed) but overall I was really pleased with the software. It's just too bad they've decided to price it out of the range of hobbyists. In the end the new price was just too much for me to be able to justify and I ended up getting 3DCoat instead because it has a non-professional license for only $100. I'm actually very glad that I got 3DCoat instead because I can use it for modelling things other than just clothing, plus it lets me paint texture maps directly on the model which is handy.
If they ever came out with a hobbyist pricing for MD that was inline with what 3DCoat's is I'd buy it in an instant but for now I'm very pleased with the results I get making clothes in 3DCoat.
One of the things with MD is you have to let go of what you learned with traditional box/vertex modelling and start thinking about design from a tailor's point of view. It took me awhile to get my head around that shift but once I stopped thinking of the clothing from a modelling perspective and started thinking of them as a tailor would it all became much easier.
Yeah, I could use MD, or I could use Carrara (or some other free modeling software) and then turn it into a dynamic outfit for about $12 (extra $60 to buy Carrara on the sale it's frequently at)
I've been a member of a niche online adult fetish community since 1997. I got into 3D art six years ago because comissioning live-action adult videos is prohibitively expensive. By stark comparison, from my perspective, $30 for a high-quality virtual environment that's been quality tested by industry professionals is still a bargain.
Greetings,
I have this problem also, but I discovered that the really cool thing about the purchase emails they send (which I auto-archive into 'Receipts') is that they have the actual prices for each of the items. It's vastly more accurate than the store's order history. (I have a theory that someone took their 'normal form' database concepts too seriously, and didn't realize that order history entries need to be a snapshot in time, and so NEED to be copies of data, not joined to the existing price tables at query time.) Check those emails out if you're looking for a more accurate tally of what you spent and how much things were at that moment.
-- Morgan
I took business when I was younger.
and there is a reason for...I will say, unusual prices. Some artists are more artist than business folks.
That is ok...cool. Many artists charge too little..and are happy with it, some charge..what we think is too much.
but they have the call on that.
>IF this was all created and run by 1 company...and it is not, everything would be priced close to
the price threshold< In business it is the magical price where
you collect the maximum profit. Just high enough to cause folks to grumble but still buy it...lol < true
I kinda like it the way it is instead.
:-D
I think a real key to this issue is the question of how many people actually buy and use the typical DAZ or Poser product? Going by the comments and sales data I've seen from vendors on this site and others, my guess is that the real number, on average, is frequently quite small. I've heard more than a few mentions of item that sold in the low double digits, usually in connection with threads about why some particular product niche is so undersupported. And if numbers in the low 100s are fairly typical, then price comparisons to most "real" clothing goes out the window. You can't compare a pair of DAZ Jeans that will only sell a few hundred copies to something that's mass manufactured in runs of tens of thousands. On the other hand, I think most people are going to balk at paying more for a virtual version of something than the "real" item, even though the materials cost of the real thing is actually just a small percentage of that item's retail price. Especially when I can buy a digital version of a helicopter or a house for an infintesimal fraction of those items' "real" cost.
In the end, though, I suspect that within a few years we're going to start to see a transition away from products that are created by a single PA sitting at a computer, moving towards items produced by teams, probably using a lot of 3D scanning of real world objects. That will enable more product overlap and allow the artists who transition to have less risk involved with each individual project. On the downside, it'll probably also lead to the digital equivalent of the sweat shop factories that already produce our real clothes, electronics, etc., and we'll have to live with the guilt that Vickie's latest bit of skimpwear was made by a twelve year olf in Malaysia. C'est la guerre.
If you select "invoices" on the order details page you should see the price you paid. This doesn't work for orders made before DAZ moved to magento, but that will cover the past 4 years.
Yeah, it's like TV repair. When I was a kid in the '50s and even into the '80 you could find lots of TV repair places. Now not so much!
Now if your non-functioning TV covers less than half your wall you just replace it and poison the ground with it's dead bones.
Sales might go up, if products were more versatile. Not sure exactly how to say this, but if I pay a good price for an item, I'd like to have the option to change its look in different renders. Some outfits are so distinctive, they're recognizable at a thousand paces, in any render.
Making outfits so the pieces could be matched easily, with other outfit pieces, might help. That'd be more trouble, I realize, but I'd love to be able to pair one bodice with a skirt from a different outfit, and have it all look right.
Some folks manage this with kitbashing, but my kitbashing never looks good. :-)
I've thought about taking outfit pieces into a modeler, deleting the parts I don't want, and maybe adding extra geometry to create a "new" outfit, but didn't know if that'd be desecrating a holy grail. Hiding surfaces is one thing; altering a vendor's work in a modeler is another. I do not want to tick anyone off or violate something in the EULA.
I hope what I'm saying makes sense. And it's a little OT, but if prices are gonna go up, maybe versatility of use oughta be considered, too?
Doing that is perfectly fine. You don't have the right to distribute your modified version, of course.
I would suggest morphing the outfit to hide unwanted polygons rather than deleting parts though, as deleting part of the mesh might mess up the UVs.
Thanks.
No, I wouldn't think of redistributing anything I'd bought, in any form, unless it was a tutorial thing and redistribution was ok. I don't do much modeling and sharing anymore, though.
Yes to morphing -- if I fool with the geometry, I've got to make a whole new garment. That means new textures, new rig, old morphs don't work, etc. Opens a can of worms.
I've played around with transmaps, but for some reason, I have always not liked transmaps.
Actually, I suspect that many folks that complain about the cost of virtual clothing are trying to compare individual items with sets, as it's very rare to find just a pair of jeans, for example. Most vendors include shirts and boots, which ofsets the difference in cost, since if you compared prices of the entire ensemble, you might find that the real items end up costing more than their virtual counterparts.
In Hexagon you can delete geometry and not have it affect the UV map. You can even extrude and the UV simply doubles back upon itself. Where it would get tricky would be creating the linking geometry between the kitbashed pieces. Welding separate geometries together will break the UV. When I make geographs I send the parts of the geometry I need to Daz and export it from there. Import it and it will all be a single object. Then I send it to hexagon and manually weld together vertex by vertex. If you "average weld" to join the geometries it ends up breaking the UV so you have to manually do them one at a time.
Just coming off of a huge run of sales (seriously, I joined in Sept and its been nothing but massive sales until just now) I am assuming that things are just getting back to *normal* with item pricing and sales. I have no doubt that these items are worth every penny and some of them probably more, but it doesnt' change the fact that my wallet simply can't afford those prices. In a perfect world, I would be able to support these artists by paying full price but I just can't no matter how much I like or want something. So I wait for it to go on sale and hopefully, enough people spend enough money on it to make the next project feasible.
It's probably been said already... but I'm gonna toss this out there anyways as something for people to consider when commenting about prices...
Say an artist makes a 20$ item... for decent quality, he/she will probably spend at least 8 hours each day working on said model... at 20$ per item that's already way below even meanial pay for his/her time. If it's very complex and detailed, said model may take several weeks to complete. They put said item out for sale at a brokerage who then takes a percentage off the top as a brokerage fee (50% seems about average with some sites taking more or less on a site by site basis) so now the artist only gets 10$ for that 20$ item... even less value for his time than that 20$ was giving him/her.
Now... the item goes on sale at say 75% off... now the artist only gets $2.50 for his hard and long work... then he/she still has to pay taxes on earnings etc... plus keep the tools he/she uses up to date so that he can keep producing new products... Now... ask yourself... would I be willing to spend 8hrs a day working for a measly $2.50? (chances are the answer will be "Hellz no!")
Just putting this out there for everyone to consider to show the other side of the coin so to speak...