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The prices are getting out of hand

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  • KA1KA1 Posts: 1,012

    I'm not sure the prices are that out of whack, for example if you look back at something like http://www.daz3d.com/dystopia-destinations-hyperion-bar and compare to @Dumor3D http://www.daz3d.com/ducc-iray-deep-underground-command-center the shear amount of additional props on the latter would easily match older products in the $20 plus zone on their own, without the set!

    The pricing is quite subjective, it always baffles me that a Daz base characters are like $45 - PA characters are $15 - $25 normally, some of the PA characters are much better just based off the base essentials figure and still have a Daz base figures flexibility with morph dials  and additional textures (I don't even remember V7 coming with ant sort of nail varnish textures of any description..?)

    If its something I want and can afford i'll get it straight away, if not i'll wishlist or pass depending on potential usage, and occasionally will pay full price IF it is something I absolutely need on the spot (3D Universe's "Monsters in the Cupboard", although more peer pressure from my daughters for the story they are commissioning me to do for them!!)

    Prices do seem to have increased, this is true of my weekly food shop as well tbh quality and amount of work involved has generally increased as well, and lets not forget that PA's listen, during the PC+ sale The Ant Farm put some of their products released at that time at a more affordable price than they would have normally.

    Not sure I've made any sense here.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,925
    StratDragon said:
    FirstBastion said:

    Prices are high?  relative to what measure?   comparable models on other sites like turbosquid ( http://www.turbosquid.com ) and cgtrader ( https://www.cgtrader.com ) ,  our product prices  are exceptionally well valued at full price and an absolute bargain on sale.   And often times those other site products are not even rigged,  or textured in an acceptable format.

    Prices are relative to the consumer. You may have more professionals going to these sites. If you are movie studio looking to save time modeling the titanic and can get it for $250 or a game developing company who needs an assets for something that would offset the cost of hiring a developer and keeping a deadline that kind of cost it is a bargain. If you a hobbyist looking to make a scene with some software it can generally get very expensive. If Daz sold 200 items at $30 they could probably sell more than 400 if they dropped it down to $15 for their consumer base, they would likely more than break even and appeal to their user base. If they did make more they could probably pass more of it off to the designers, the majority of what they sell is brokered so they take a cut in return for promotion. 
    The short version of this is you don't hear of hobbyists going to the sites you mentioned, and if they did they would likely be an anomaly. 

     

    ...however a good number of the products there have very restrictive use licences which may end up costing the user even more due to intellectual property rights. For example, I was saving up for a model of a 9' Kawai concert grand piano they have (which is the most accurate I've seen) until I discovered I would also have to contact (and most likely have to pay a royaly fee to) Kawai Pianos in Japan in order to get licence approval to use the model fior illustrating my story.

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019
    edited April 2016
    Peter Fulford said:

     

    BeeMKay said:
    • During the time that has higher sales (first two yeras), the price drop (and hence, loss for the artist&DAZ) is not that dramatic...

    You're begging the question (proper meaning, not vernacular). Or, as Aristotle* might have said, assuming the original point. Or, as the mods might say when deleting a post, "presenting speculation as fact".

    I would speculate that the peak sales period is a lot less than two years.

     

    *may have been a bugger for the bottle.

    I was just trying to point out that the problem lies in the expectation of insane discounts even for intro sales by the customer, and the ensuing price increase spiral this means on the long run.

    This price discount is like a drug, and we, as customers, are all addicts to it. Yes, I love my 77+% off as well as everyone else here, but (as I pointed out about two yeas ago in a similar thread), this is will only end in higher and higher base prices, and more and more insane sales strategies. Oh, these sales will work, make no mistake, because all of us price discount junkies will go on hunting for the largest discount, and that will certainly include me.

    Just that ultimately, you are paying the same price for the item after the insane sale, here at DAZ, as you do on Rendo (with lower base prices and less steep sales), or elsewhere. I've done the maths; with similar items, or items from the same vendor, where part is sold here, and part sold elsewhere.

     

    EDIT: That said, I will buy an item at the intro discount, given that I like it, can use it, and, most importantly, still have some of my budget left to actually spend on the item. Like, this month, with Lee&Mei Lin7, my budget is exhausted, so I only can drool over some great items I would've bought otherwise (like, the scooter, Mec4Ds shaders, the two recent male characters, for example). Alas, the money was spent already, so they now sit in the waiting row until my budget is restored.

    Post edited by BeeMKay on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,925
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Nadino said:

    Here we go again with the TurboSquid comparison. Some of us customers are comparing the new prices to those we used to pay for items here before.

    Like the original Dragon for $99.95, textures extra as I recall, compared to Dragon 3 for $44.95?

    ...or Hexagon 2.1 which originally cost 149$.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,269
    kyoto kid said:
    StratDragon said:
    FirstBastion said:

    Prices are high?  relative to what measure?   comparable models on other sites like turbosquid ( http://www.turbosquid.com ) and cgtrader ( https://www.cgtrader.com ) ,  our product prices  are exceptionally well valued at full price and an absolute bargain on sale.   And often times those other site products are not even rigged,  or textured in an acceptable format.

    Prices are relative to the consumer. You may have more professionals going to these sites. If you are movie studio looking to save time modeling the titanic and can get it for $250 or a game developing company who needs an assets for something that would offset the cost of hiring a developer and keeping a deadline that kind of cost it is a bargain. If you a hobbyist looking to make a scene with some software it can generally get very expensive. If Daz sold 200 items at $30 they could probably sell more than 400 if they dropped it down to $15 for their consumer base, they would likely more than break even and appeal to their user base. If they did make more they could probably pass more of it off to the designers, the majority of what they sell is brokered so they take a cut in return for promotion. 
    The short version of this is you don't hear of hobbyists going to the sites you mentioned, and if they did they would likely be an anomaly. 

     

    ...however a good number of the products there have very restrictive use licences which may end up costing the user even more due to intellectual property rights. For example, I was saving up for a model of a 9' Kawai concert grand piano they have (which is the most accurate I've seen) until I discovered I would also have to contact (and most likely have to pay a royaly fee to) Kawai Pianos in Japan in order to get licence approval to use the model fior illustrating my story.

    Actually I think they should pay you for advertising their pianos. Same with clothes with company logos - they should pay people for wearing them rather than people paying for the right to be walking display pillars for the companies.

     

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,344
    kyoto kid said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Nadino said:

    Here we go again with the TurboSquid comparison. Some of us customers are comparing the new prices to those we used to pay for items here before.

    Like the original Dragon for $99.95, textures extra as I recall, compared to Dragon 3 for $44.95?

    ...or Hexagon 2.1 which originally cost 149$.

    I'm pretty sure it was introduced at $1.99 for PC members, so not such a clear example.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,925
    kaotkbliss said:

    On a side note, if you think these prices are bad

    You should try getting into Warhammer (the tabletop version)

    That's a hobby that got so expensive I could only get back to it briefly 2x in nearly 18 years.

    ...even the (in comparison little known) Shadowrun RPG has been getting pricey. A number of the soruce books (averaging 170 pages) go for around 50$ each (and as we know, most game books don't seem to last very long before bindings split and pages begin to fall out).

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325
    BeeMKay said:
    Peter Fulford said:

     

    BeeMKay said:
    • During the time that has higher sales (first two yeras), the price drop (and hence, loss for the artist&DAZ) is not that dramatic...

    You're begging the question (proper meaning, not vernacular). Or, as Aristotle* might have said, assuming the original point. Or, as the mods might say when deleting a post, "presenting speculation as fact".

    I would speculate that the peak sales period is a lot less than two years.

     

    *may have been a bugger for the bottle.

    I was just trying to point out that the problem lies in the expectation of insane discounts even for intro sales by the customer, and the ensuing price increase spiral this means on the long run.

    Thank you. I see the points you are presenting. I just don't see that one automatically leads to the other. As you also point out, there is effective competition in this market. Effective competition generally prevents any particular sales approach from perverting markets long term.

    This is a consumer-driven luxury market. If DAZ gets their pricing wrong, no matter their current dominance or momentum, they will fail.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,925
    Richard Haseltine said:
    kyoto kid said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Nadino said:

    Here we go again with the TurboSquid comparison. Some of us customers are comparing the new prices to those we used to pay for items here before.

    Like the original Dragon for $99.95, textures extra as I recall, compared to Dragon 3 for $44.95?

    ...or Hexagon 2.1 which originally cost 149$.

    I'm pretty sure it was introduced at $1.99 for PC members, so not such a clear example.

    ...eight years ago that was the price I saw. I got it for around 75$ during a sale here.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,925
    edited April 2016
    Taozen said:
    kyoto kid said:
    StratDragon said:
    FirstBastion said:

    Prices are high?  relative to what measure?   comparable models on other sites like turbosquid ( http://www.turbosquid.com ) and cgtrader ( https://www.cgtrader.com ) ,  our product prices  are exceptionally well valued at full price and an absolute bargain on sale.   And often times those other site products are not even rigged,  or textured in an acceptable format.

    Prices are relative to the consumer. You may have more professionals going to these sites. If you are movie studio looking to save time modeling the titanic and can get it for $250 or a game developing company who needs an assets for something that would offset the cost of hiring a developer and keeping a deadline that kind of cost it is a bargain. If you a hobbyist looking to make a scene with some software it can generally get very expensive. If Daz sold 200 items at $30 they could probably sell more than 400 if they dropped it down to $15 for their consumer base, they would likely more than break even and appeal to their user base. If they did make more they could probably pass more of it off to the designers, the majority of what they sell is brokered so they take a cut in return for promotion. 
    The short version of this is you don't hear of hobbyists going to the sites you mentioned, and if they did they would likely be an anomaly. 

     

    ...however a good number of the products there have very restrictive use licences which may end up costing the user even more due to intellectual property rights. For example, I was saving up for a model of a 9' Kawai concert grand piano they have (which is the most accurate I've seen) until I discovered I would also have to contact (and most likely have to pay a royaly fee to) Kawai Pianos in Japan in order to get licence approval to use the model fior illustrating my story.

    Actually I think they should pay you for advertising their pianos. Same with clothes with company logos - they should pay people for wearing them rather than people paying for the right to be walking display pillars for the companies.

     

    ....a little OT but my same argument with cable/satellite television.  You pay a premium and still have to watch adverts.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • AlricAlric Posts: 125

    Prices here used to be much higher. When Victoria first came out she was something like $100 and that was without morphs and textures. A simple tunic with almost no morphs was $35 and a fancy hairpiece was $60. 

    Prices have come down and we're getting much higher quality. Better textures, lots of morphs, etc.

    Prices_1.jpg
    1061 x 1481 - 185K
    Prices_2.jpg
    1819 x 1417 - 343K
  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 1,325
    Alric said:

    Prices here used to be much higher. When Victoria first came out she was something like $100 and that was without morphs and textures. A simple tunic with almost no morphs was $35 and a fancy hairpiece was $60. 

    Prices have come down and we're getting much higher quality. Better textures, lots of morphs, etc.

    Thanks for this. I've been rummaging through old emails, invoices, etc, looking for the evidence of what was niggling at the back of my mind. That things really have gotten better for us over the years.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 23,925
    edited April 2016
    Serene Night said:

    The underground command center is now 51 percent off and I picket it up! Thanks for making it more affordable to us hobbyists.

    Uh uh. The gallery page says 51% but the price was upped to 34.95 so its showing 17.47. The product page says 30% off for a $17.47 price too- but the price is only $24.95. So you got 30% off the $24.95 price.  EDIT: Never mind, later in the thread it was already mentioned.

    Post edited by Novica on
  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,723
    edited April 2016

    While true about the income not raising or very little the cost of production has gone up just like everything else has. Programs and different apps and subscriptions are going up and we are making a steady wage and in most cases less than min wage so you can't blame the PA for wanting to make at least min wage after the higher cost of everything.

    Post edited by frank0314 on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    Peter Fulford said:
    Alric said:

    Prices here used to be much higher. When Victoria first came out she was something like $100 and that was without morphs and textures. A simple tunic with almost no morphs was $35 and a fancy hairpiece was $60. 

    Prices have come down and we're getting much higher quality. Better textures, lots of morphs, etc.

    Thanks for this. I've been rummaging through old emails, invoices, etc, looking for the evidence of what was niggling at the back of my mind. That things really have gotten better for us over the years.

    That is why I said I relies its not just that the cost 3d have really gone up that much,  its REALLY just my Pay has not kept pace with everything else going up in life like food, Gas, Insurance. etc. thank the gods I have a fixed morgage.    if things keep up at this rate I'll have to get another job just to feed my Daz Habit. Ha Ha    So the prices may have gone up some at Daz. .  But my pay has not gone up at all, " Zero " ...  in like 3 years  ..and now work wants to  start cutting our hours this summer to under 30 hours a week. for some reasons I can't describe here in the forum because it would turn this into a political decussion.    Anyway If they cut my hours I can forget buying anything at all, at any 3d sites.  like I said I may have to get a second job .... Hmmm I wonder if they need any walmart greeters. I can do that, I'd be like Jeff dunhams "Walter" .  " Hi welcome to walmart . Get your crap and get out...Ha Ha. 

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401

    Greetings,

    Peter Fulford said:
    Alric said:

    Prices here used to be much higher. When Victoria first came out she was something like $100 and that was without morphs and textures. A simple tunic with almost no morphs was $35 and a fancy hairpiece was $60. 

    Prices have come down and we're getting much higher quality. Better textures, lots of morphs, etc.

    Thanks for this. I've been rummaging through old emails, invoices, etc, looking for the evidence of what was niggling at the back of my mind. That things really have gotten better for us over the years.

    This is, in a non-3D sense, something that fascinates me.  Things have been getting doggedly better in so many areas for decades, but the persistent narrative is that it hasn't.  This is NOT a partisan political thing, at least in this country all the major players claim it.  But it's just not true.  Sure, you can find things that are worse, but by and large progress has been good for us.  This also plays out in almost any microcosm, such as our own DAZ forums, gaming (video and tabletop), software development, as well as in a macro-sense country-wide and even internationally.

    It's like we as humans have a powerful bias to believe that things are getting worse, and it takes extraordinary proof to convince us otherwise, if even then.

    --  Morgan

     

  • MendomanMendoman Posts: 404
    kyoto kid said:
    Ice Dragon Art said:
    marble said:
    StratDragon said:
    tmraider said:

    Sorry, but this is kind of absurd 20.00 -30.00 for outfits, gloves 12.00 ??  and this is with a 30% discount.  I do like the clothes but honestly I have been putting things on hold.  I spend a lot of money each month on 3D merchandise, and I been a premium member for almost 3years.  I have always tried to get good deals, but have paid my share in full price too.  It seems like in the last year the new releases get a very steep price increase.  I have to wait each month for my cupoun to get a discount.  Again appologize for the complaint, but kind of dissapointed lately

    apparently virtual clothing is becoming more expensive than the real thing, at least it doens't fade but it still pokes through. The cost of outfitting a figure and the limitations of what is available has driven me to model in 3D and with some success I've been able to create clothing; much of it I can't share because I generally use actual brands or textures I can't publicly share. However this is an incredibly liberating endeavor and over time I have been able to get most of what I need through this process and spend my money on more realistically priced things.

    and while anyone can b***h about Blender's interface all they want it still decimates every tool Hexagon offers and runs circles around it's stability as it's continually developed with new features offered in applications costing thousands, yet it remains free.

    https://www.blender.org

     

     

    Love to know what tutorials you used to get to where you are now with modelling clothing. The more I read, the more intimidated I feel - the Blender learning curve plus rigging, weight mapping, texturing, FBMs and JCMs ... frightening!

    You and me both.  Tutorials for dummies would be a nice start.  I really want to learn to use blender but I open it up, stare at it, push a few button to see what they do then run away screaming....

    ...did that far too many times, after which I go back to to the comfort zone of Hexagon. At least I can tackle the actual process of learning to model rather than fight with the UI all the time.

    This is totally off topic, but anyways....At least for me it helped immensively to change Blender's UI to left click scheme. I have no idea why the default interface is using right click, which is bizarre for most Windows users. Blender homepage has lots of beginner tutorials ( https://www.blender.org/support/tutorials/ ) if you are interested, and also I recommend Andrew Price's tutorials ( http://www.blenderguru.com ), when you are more familiar with the program. Andrew's tutorials are not for absolute beginners, but very informative and very easy to follow as soon as you have learned the basics. Also internet is full of free Blender tutorials from basic modeling to sculpting to physics engine. Just google it, and I'm surprised if you can't find anything. When I started using Daz Studio, it was a complete shock, that even basic tutorials, like how to use lights, costs money. In Blender world you definitely get all the basic tutorials for free.

     

    I know this starts to sound like fanboyism ( is that even a word ? cheeky ), but if you are new to 3d modeling programs, I think Blender is great software to learn the tricks. I do admit, it's interface is somewhat weird at fist, and it takes time to learn keyboard shortcuts, but after you get over that phase, you can do anything you could do with those thousands of dollars costing softwares. And what's best, Blender is constantly developed, and all the new cool stuff is also free. Actually it's not even impossible, that Blender will push Autodesk out of business in this decade. Not only because it's free, but because it's developed so much faster, that Maya and 3ds Max are ancient relics in few years time. Currently only thing that really keeps them floating, is that studios and professionals don't want to learn a new software because it takes time, and time is money. Heh, I know that it sounds like Linux vs. Windows talk, but at least I'm not alone, since even now some big studios like Pixar have started to support Blender ( RenderMan support ). Also most of the bigger render engines already have either plugins or their own sepate builds of Blender available, but I've never personally used those, so I have no idea how well those work. Cycles is already good enough for hobbyist like me, but I assume V-Ray and other professional level stuff can make it even sweeter for...well, professionals.

     

    To be fair, I suppose I have to say something bad about Blender too, so I think posing characters really sucks in there. In my opinion in that department Daz Studio is light years ahead. Also Iray skins look much better to my eye, than anything I can make with Cycles materials, but I'm not really specialist in that area either. Heh, actually I have 2 things in my interwebs wishlish, and those are Blender Iray support and 2-way bridge between DAZ Studio and Blender. In case Santa is reading, maybe I can get those for Christmas, if I promise to be a good boy? wink

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,088

    There are key ways things have gotten worse. That's inconvenient for folks who have profitted because of it.

    So it's much more compelling to believe things are generally worse.

     

    But, yeah. To pick a topic that hopefully won't ruffle too many feathers, look at how often people complain about kids/teens these days. But if you look at the facts, statistically? Crime is down, various teen issues (pregnancy, smoking, literacy, drop outs) have trended POSITIVELY for 20 or so years (with a few bumps). Teens actually do a lot of cool stuff and if you compare them to prior generations, they come out rather favorably.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 23,925
    Novica said:
    Serene Night said:

    The underground command center is now 51 percent off and I picket it up! Thanks for making it more affordable to us hobbyists.

    Uh uh. The gallery page says 51% but the price was upped to 34.95 so its showing 17.47. The product page says 30% off for a $17.47 price too- but the price is only $24.95. So you got 30% off the $24.95 price.  EDIT: Never mind, later in the thread it was already mentioned.

    They put the gallery page at the 30% and $24.95 price, so no, no one got 51%. 

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401

    Greetings,

    And to jump back on the original topic, and to be VERY specific...  I was taken aback by the DUCC also, but then I looked at the props that came with it and it blew my hair back. :)  It's got an amazing amount of stuff, which makes it super-useful.  Especially the terminals, the high-backed office chair and the folding chair...  Strip the tech out and the room probably would work for a goblin cave.  The thing about sets like that is their sheer versatility.

    I'll also point out that I think this particular conversation pops up every April, as folks come down from the deep discounts of March Madness...

    --  Morgan

     

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,117
    edited April 2016
    Taozen said:
    kyoto kid said:
    StratDragon said:
    FirstBastion said:

    Prices are high?  relative to what measure?   comparable models on other sites like turbosquid ( http://www.turbosquid.com ) and cgtrader ( https://www.cgtrader.com ) ,  our product prices  are exceptionally well valued at full price and an absolute bargain on sale.   And often times those other site products are not even rigged,  or textured in an acceptable format.

    Prices are relative to the consumer. You may have more professionals going to these sites. If you are movie studio looking to save time modeling the titanic and can get it for $250 or a game developing company who needs an assets for something that would offset the cost of hiring a developer and keeping a deadline that kind of cost it is a bargain. If you a hobbyist looking to make a scene with some software it can generally get very expensive. If Daz sold 200 items at $30 they could probably sell more than 400 if they dropped it down to $15 for their consumer base, they would likely more than break even and appeal to their user base. If they did make more they could probably pass more of it off to the designers, the majority of what they sell is brokered so they take a cut in return for promotion. 
    The short version of this is you don't hear of hobbyists going to the sites you mentioned, and if they did they would likely be an anomaly. 

     

    ...however a good number of the products there have very restrictive use licences which may end up costing the user even more due to intellectual property rights. For example, I was saving up for a model of a 9' Kawai concert grand piano they have (which is the most accurate I've seen) until I discovered I would also have to contact (and most likely have to pay a royaly fee to) Kawai Pianos in Japan in order to get licence approval to use the model fior illustrating my story.

    Actually I think they should pay you for advertising their pianos. Same with clothes with company logos - they should pay people for wearing them rather than people paying for the right to be walking display pillars for the companies.

    I absolutely agree on that point.  Plain black baseball cap $10.  Same baseball cap with NIKE logo on it $25. surprise They should be paying me to walk around advertising their company.  enlightenedWhen did we get so label conscious that they get us to fork over cash to become billboards?   Corporate mind control. no

     

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited April 2016
    LeatherGryphon said:
    Taozen said:
    kyoto kid said:
    StratDragon said:
    FirstBastion said:

    Prices are high?  relative to what measure?   comparable models on other sites like turbosquid ( http://www.turbosquid.com ) and cgtrader ( https://www.cgtrader.com ) ,  our product prices  are exceptionally well valued at full price and an absolute bargain on sale.   And often times those other site products are not even rigged,  or textured in an acceptable format.

    Prices are relative to the consumer. You may have more professionals going to these sites. If you are movie studio looking to save time modeling the titanic and can get it for $250 or a game developing company who needs an assets for something that would offset the cost of hiring a developer and keeping a deadline that kind of cost it is a bargain. If you a hobbyist looking to make a scene with some software it can generally get very expensive. If Daz sold 200 items at $30 they could probably sell more than 400 if they dropped it down to $15 for their consumer base, they would likely more than break even and appeal to their user base. If they did make more they could probably pass more of it off to the designers, the majority of what they sell is brokered so they take a cut in return for promotion. 
    The short version of this is you don't hear of hobbyists going to the sites you mentioned, and if they did they would likely be an anomaly. 

     

    ...however a good number of the products there have very restrictive use licences which may end up costing the user even more due to intellectual property rights. For example, I was saving up for a model of a 9' Kawai concert grand piano they have (which is the most accurate I've seen) until I discovered I would also have to contact (and most likely have to pay a royaly fee to) Kawai Pianos in Japan in order to get licence approval to use the model fior illustrating my story.

    Actually I think they should pay you for advertising their pianos. Same with clothes with company logos - they should pay people for wearing them rather than people paying for the right to be walking display pillars for the companies.

    I absolutely agree on that point.  Plain black baseball cap $10.  Same baseball cap with NIKE logo on it $25. surprise They should be paying me to walk around advertising their company.  enlightenedWhen did we get so label conscious that they get us to fork over cash to become billboards?   Corporate mind control. no

     

     Have you heard a little song or jingle on the radio or tv and then have it stuck in your head all darn day....lol

    No matter how many different tunes you try to play, to get rid of it,  your thoughts always seems to drift back to that one silly jingle & you can't get out of you head.

    Stupid product Jingles...lol

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,419
    Peter Fulford said:
    BeeMKay said:
    Peter Fulford said:

     

    BeeMKay said:
    • During the time that has higher sales (first two yeras), the price drop (and hence, loss for the artist&DAZ) is not that dramatic...

    You're begging the question (proper meaning, not vernacular). Or, as Aristotle* might have said, assuming the original point. Or, as the mods might say when deleting a post, "presenting speculation as fact".

    I would speculate that the peak sales period is a lot less than two years.

     

    *may have been a bugger for the bottle.

    I was just trying to point out that the problem lies in the expectation of insane discounts even for intro sales by the customer, and the ensuing price increase spiral this means on the long run.

    Thank you. I see the points you are presenting. I just don't see that one automatically leads to the other. As you also point out, there is effective competition in this market. Effective competition generally prevents any particular sales approach from perverting markets long term.

    This is a consumer-driven luxury market. If DAZ gets their pricing wrong, no matter their current dominance or momentum, they will fail.

    Penney's department store was noted at one time for having most items on sale, 20 to 30% off; in reality, the suggested list prices were increase so that the 'sale' price was close to the proper original ptice. A couple of years ago, they quit doing that. And sales plummeted, even thogh the price to the consumer was unchanged. The vast majority of us have become so conditioned to sales that we aren't inclined to buy if it's NOT on sale.

  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 830

    Prices have definitely gone up.  Now, unless its a figure I really want or an environment by Stonemason or another offering by an artist who's work I really like, a lot of the new releases go to the wishlist until some arcane sale arrangement brings it into a price I can more easily afford.  As I see the prices continue to climb, I more and more appreciate the discounts that come from being a PC+ member.  Otherwise, I might soon be priced right out of this hobby

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,088

    Namffuak: I think stores have to be careful how they do that because there are laws restricting it.

    Basically, if I remember right, you have to have a certain amount of 'nonsale' time.

     

  • mtl1mtl1 Posts: 1,508
    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    And to jump back on the original topic, and to be VERY specific...  I was taken aback by the DUCC also, but then I looked at the props that came with it and it blew my hair back. :)  It's got an amazing amount of stuff, which makes it super-useful.  Especially the terminals, the high-backed office chair and the folding chair...  Strip the tech out and the room probably would work for a goblin cave.  The thing about sets like that is their sheer versatility.

    I'll also point out that I think this particular conversation pops up every April, as folks come down from the deep discounts of March Madness...

    --  Morgan

     

    10000% agreed. The only reason I didn't purchase it is because I spent a ridiculous amount of money during MM :(

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,925
    edited April 2016
    Mendoman said:
    kyoto kid said:
    Ice Dragon Art said:
    marble said:
    StratDragon said:
    tmraider said:

    Sorry, but this is kind of absurd 20.00 -30.00 for outfits, gloves 12.00 ??  and this is with a 30% discount.  I do like the clothes but honestly I have been putting things on hold.  I spend a lot of money each month on 3D merchandise, and I been a premium member for almost 3years.  I have always tried to get good deals, but have paid my share in full price too.  It seems like in the last year the new releases get a very steep price increase.  I have to wait each month for my cupoun to get a discount.  Again appologize for the complaint, but kind of dissapointed lately

    apparently virtual clothing is becoming more expensive than the real thing, at least it doens't fade but it still pokes through. The cost of outfitting a figure and the limitations of what is available has driven me to model in 3D and with some success I've been able to create clothing; much of it I can't share because I generally use actual brands or textures I can't publicly share. However this is an incredibly liberating endeavor and over time I have been able to get most of what I need through this process and spend my money on more realistically priced things.

    and while anyone can b***h about Blender's interface all they want it still decimates every tool Hexagon offers and runs circles around it's stability as it's continually developed with new features offered in applications costing thousands, yet it remains free.

    https://www.blender.org

     

     

    Love to know what tutorials you used to get to where you are now with modelling clothing. The more I read, the more intimidated I feel - the Blender learning curve plus rigging, weight mapping, texturing, FBMs and JCMs ... frightening!

    You and me both.  Tutorials for dummies would be a nice start.  I really want to learn to use blender but I open it up, stare at it, push a few button to see what they do then run away screaming....

    ...did that far too many times, after which I go back to to the comfort zone of Hexagon. At least I can tackle the actual process of learning to model rather than fight with the UI all the time.

    This is totally off topic, but anyways....At least for me it helped immensively to change Blender's UI to left click scheme. I have no idea why the default interface is using right click, which is bizarre for most Windows users. Blender homepage has lots of beginner tutorials ( https://www.blender.org/support/tutorials/ ) if you are interested, and also I recommend Andrew Price's tutorials ( http://www.blenderguru.com ), when you are more familiar with the program. Andrew's tutorials are not for absolute beginners, but very informative and very easy to follow as soon as you have learned the basics. Also internet is full of free Blender tutorials from basic modeling to sculpting to physics engine. Just google it, and I'm surprised if you can't find anything. When I started using Daz Studio, it was a complete shock, that even basic tutorials, like how to use lights, costs money. In Blender world you definitely get all the basic tutorials for free.

    [clipped for brevity]

    ...I'm pretty much content to just stay with Hexagon.  I have it working pretty smoothly now thanks to a few tricks I learned that make it more stable. I just find a fully pointer driven UI to be far more intuitive for this type of work. Hexagon has Hotkeys as well, but I am not forced to learn and memorise them right out of the box. I came into this as an artist form the traditional media (drawing, design, and painting) and thus, find having to use a keyboard to do just about everything is, well, clumsy and clunky compared to using my trackball.  It's comes down to what we feel the most comfortable with. The day Blender actually a similar elegant and intuitive UI and controls like Hexagon has (as Andrew proposed several years ago), that will be the day I would give it another go.

    As to tutorials today, I do not find them all that helpful since I have very low retention with videos. I can understand the reason for the switch as technical writing is not the easiest style to work in. However for myself, print format works far better as I can leave the tutorial open to the page that deals with the issue or task and I don't have to keep replaying it over, and over, and over....

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,594
    BeeMKay said:

    Well... DAZ could adopt a pricing model like this:

    • drop prices by about 20%, shopwide.
    • in the first two years any given item is on the market, it will not get any sales discount more than the 30% intro price. No crazy price combine schemes or anything.
    • Items older than two years are fair game to whatever sales you want.

    This would lead to the following:

    • Prices are perceived as generally more affordable.
    • During the time that has higher sales (first two yeras), the price drop (and hence, loss for the artist&DAZ) is not that dramatic, and
    • there's still plenty of "cannon fodder" to satisfy the "I only buy when there's 98% discount" crowd.

    Everyone's happy.

    Not everyone, I much prefer the existing sales schemes to this one

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,594
    BeeMKay said:
    Peter Fulford said:

     

    BeeMKay said:
    • During the time that has higher sales (first two yeras), the price drop (and hence, loss for the artist&DAZ) is not that dramatic...

    You're begging the question (proper meaning, not vernacular). Or, as Aristotle* might have said, assuming the original point. Or, as the mods might say when deleting a post, "presenting speculation as fact".

    I would speculate that the peak sales period is a lot less than two years.

     

    *may have been a bugger for the bottle.

    I was just trying to point out that the problem lies in the expectation of insane discounts even for intro sales by the customer, and the ensuing price increase spiral this means on the long run.

    This price discount is like a drug, and we, as customers, are all addicts to it. Yes, I love my 77+% off as well as everyone else here, but (as I pointed out about two yeas ago in a similar thread), this is will only end in higher and higher base prices, and more and more insane sales strategies. Oh, these sales will work, make no mistake, because all of us price discount junkies will go on hunting for the largest discount, and that will certainly include me.

    Just that ultimately, you are paying the same price for the item after the insane sale, here at DAZ, as you do on Rendo (with lower base prices and less steep sales), or elsewhere. I've done the maths; with similar items, or items from the same vendor, where part is sold here, and part sold elsewhere.

     

    EDIT: That said, I will buy an item at the intro discount, given that I like it, can use it, and, most importantly, still have some of my budget left to actually spend on the item. Like, this month, with Lee&Mei Lin7, my budget is exhausted, so I only can drool over some great items I would've bought otherwise (like, the scooter, Mec4Ds shaders, the two recent male characters, for example). Alas, the money was spent already, so they now sit in the waiting row until my budget is restored.

    Recently I have picked up numerous items here for less than a dollar here, sometimes as low as 40 cents. At Rendo 3.5 is pretty much the minimum price after discounts you are likely to see, even on clearance stuff.

  • father1776father1776 Posts: 982

    Well, there is a saying...vote with your wallet.

    As long as we are willing to pay $30 for a digital dress...they will charge $30

    If you think it is overpriced...don't buy or wait til the price drops

     

    The creators will get the hint

     

    If it is worth $30 and we are willing to pay that...then that is what it is worth.

This discussion has been closed.