How long until Victoria 8?
mike9
Posts: 69
in The Commons
I'm a fan of the less real/comic look concerning the figures. Genesis 2 has some good variance there and the girl 7 is a good start for genesis 3. Yet its one figure so far and the more variance there is the better for me. Is there any kind of system how the figures are released or what figure to expect next? How much time is there usually between each figure and how long until the set is complete and they likely switch to the next genesis version?
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It's usually been 2 years, so probably Summer of 2017.
Ok thanks. What I found in the store for genesis 3:
The Girl 7
Gianni 7
Gia 7
Leo 7
Olympia 7
Michael 7
Arabella 7
Teen Josie 7
Karen 7
Bethany 7
Eva 7
Victoria 7
For genesis 2:
Scott 6
Ysabeau 6
Ninive 6
Cory 6
Callie 6
Monique 6
Darius 6
Keiko 6
Reptilian 6
Minotaur 6
Belle 6
Brodie 6
Mei Lin 6
Lilith 6
Lee 6
Aiko 6
Giselle 6
Gianni 6
Stephanie 6
Teen Jayden 6
Olympia 6
Michael 6
Teen Josie 6
The Girl 6
Gia 6
Victoria 6
So genesis 2 has 26 figures over 2 years. Not sure if Reptilian 6 and Minotaur 6 count as extra but without them it would have been one figure per month on average. For Genesis 3 we have 12 figures over 8 months.(?) It looks to me like they are releasing now faster so more figures, a shorter cycle or they release less towards the end.
i like to use both realistic figures and often the more fantasy type figures also
I really like Ysabeau 6 and Giselle 6. Would love to see their equivalents for G3
My guess would be that the cycle is accellerating. Perhaps we'll see Victoria 8 already in Fall 2016. By then all the major characters for V7 will likely be out.
It's certainly a guess, but nothing so far would seem to bear this out, so doesn't seem likely.
Personally, I could do with a longer wait for the next generation. I sometimes feel like DAZ is pumping characters out like crazy.
Yeah, agreed. I might even revise that comment to something like "I feel like DAZ is pumping Caucasian female characters out like crazy."
I'm currently firmly set on Genesis 2 but am starting to warm up to Genesis 3. Hoping we'lll see more ethnic characters, male characters, and Gen X for Genesis 3 soon.
I wonder if V8 will have a bottle shape to her and come in different flavors... :)
There's a bug they are trying to fix before they can release the new V8.
For some reason, all other characters are rotated about 45 degrees on their x axis and they can't stand upright until the V8 shape is applied
V8 sounds like a model of a sports car to me
What I wonder about is:
Will Genesis 4 / Victoria 8 acutally be designed to work better with GPU render engines that work with volumes, scattering, translucency, refraction?
The Genesis 3 generation still is using the old approach of thin walled surfaces instead of thinking in layered volumes and actual geometry.
Examples for possible improvement:
Eyes:
- assign a material to a volume and not just multiple thin walled surfaces that cancel each other out.
- actual geometry for each part of the eye
Skin:
Multiple layers of Volumes that simulate the different skin layers
New Generation of anatomy addon products:
Addon Products with actual geometry for anatomically correct
- organs
- muscles
- veins as volumes
- skeletons
- - -
Genesis 3 proved that some people are willing to accept a new line of figures with new UV as long as old clothing can still be used.
Therefore I would not mind a "jump forward" to a more realistic approach of 3d figures that makes use of actual geometry and volume based light and material options of GPU render engines like Iray and OctaneRender.
Actually having multiple skin layers and optional addon products like a skeleton, organs and muscles inside a 3D model to achieve a realistic simulation of scattering, refraction and translucency effects would be a true new area of 3d human models.
- - -
So yes, if there is a real improvement with the Genesis 4 generation you can release it as soon as it is ready.
I assume that the first graphic cards with 32GB VRAM will be available in 2016. More affordable main stream cards may follow in 2017.
Totally Agree since Genesis 1 came out still missing internal organs and skeleton...
As "linvanchene" said into models lacks the internal derma structure, the skeleton and the auto muscles flexion. We may also have a hyper-realistic Victoria each month but someone will never be happy if the only goal is to have new things a week. At the end is a Barbie doll that you can dress and undress. LOL
We all remember the massive post-editing dramas caused by the bad shoulder bending in V3 M3 also in V4 and M4? in Genesis Base doesn't exist, but no one used them anymore, the ICON shape into Genesis also...Why?! too Vintage? Nope!....We want more and new and different and Daz know that :)
Honestly Genesis and G2 are most versatile than the G3, which should be new generation....in my opinion the various G3 characters have a strange little form of shoulders, a little macaroni shoulders shape again, and a small defect mesh in the crease when bending the axillary region especially in the male models).
I think that most Daz users use only the 20% of the potential options of the Genesis 1/2/3 models (face & body morphing packs) in fact all the faces and bodies that i see in the galleries are all the same, the change is only based on the texture but not on the shape options.
Also I think that potential of DazStudio shaders and the Skin Shaders Scattering are totally ignored by most DazStudio users, no need to have a great PC Config or no need to render at 2560 × 2048 px when the details of the faces are just bumping and displacement that make faces and bodies looks like plastic and in fortunally cases wax engraved.
What I'd like to see more than Victoria 8 would be some sort of add-on to the current generation.
Like, Genesis 3.5 and all the current models would be updated with some new tech, lets say, dynamic textures for example : )
What I would really really really like to see in future technology is intelligent procedural generation of textures.
Or vector mapped skin textures. Imagine you have 4 different freckle textures, and they are set to appear at various parts of the skin (pinned to a surface location). As the skin moves/flexes, the freckle positions can move and stretch. Then maybe these features can be given variable stretching, from 'move exactly like the skin' to moles and whatever that don't.
Wrinkles that are intelligently generated based on location and flex.
Stuff like that.
Yeah, mimic wrinkle maps are lacking. All of our characters have botox faces : )
Even AAA games have this technology already.
HA HA HA @ botox faces
Skin Stretch: Simulating Dynamic Skin Microgeometry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXXdypEuR_M
I'm thinking along the lines of something more likely to happen, like some sort of dynamic normal map textures system for different areas of the face controlled by the joints. Cheeks, forehead, dimples.
I've seen this in several games now, Witcher 3, Assasin's Creed, Until Dawn....
This would more be a studio function actually, you'd need studio to be able to calculate mesh tension (how much the mesh has stretched or squished from its initial point), But if Victoria 8 did come with a rollout of studio that calculated mesh tension I'd be okay with that.
With that said the next Genesis will come out when: they actually run out of new characters to produce, or (more likely) they introduce some new features that make it possible to create a better looking figure.
Personally I think the production cycle for Gen 3 could be longer than G1 or 2s. My argument is that I always saw G2 as more G1.5. There wasn't much of a change in technology. Both G1 and G3 featured a lot of new technology elements, both featured new weight mapping methods, G1 introduced automatic autofollow for morphs, and G3 a rigged face for improved expressions. On the other hand, G2 was more created because they realized G1 was a pain to create gendered clothes and morphs for. So I could see G3's lifespan being closer to the time between G1 and G3. (actually I'm guessing 3 years total from launch so, 2 more years total)
Keep in mind that the bulk of the Genesis 3 mesh work was done by one man (Michael Lane), and I am fairly sure he did Genesis 2, and maybe 1 as well. If he is again asked to do Genesis 4, then he is naturally going to require quite some time to do so, regardless of the time scales wanted by the marketing men. Only so many hours in the day, even for a modelling wizard.
I don't know anyone off the top of my head who actually wants to see a new Genesis figure line released any time soon. If anything, we want to see Studio improvements, not more figures to repurchase everything for yet again.
The 2-figures-a-month releases generally seem to be one "conventional" figure and one "riskier" one, like Bethany or male figures that previously got skipped over, so I don't think that will shorten the time span .
Well I think you say some of the things about internal organs and such sarcastically but as computer HW and SW improves those things will come but I think it might take a decade or so. I can still remember my amazement at seeing a set of color computed tomography pictures of my skull as they were preparing to do reconstructive surgery. I can imagine a time when they might me able to model the entire endeavor for practice surgery dry runs once they are able to make sophisticated enough scans.
There are amazing things going on in animation but it's more geared towards gaming. Example, imagine variations of these World Wrestling Federation console type games that people have been playing for decades now. There is now ever improving sw & hw that can take a few pictures of a person and recreate a 3D likeness for use as a character in one of these WWF style games. And they can animate rolls of fat on a 400 pound man for example. So that's not available yet in those games but I think it will be in the future.
As far as character recognition a large part of that besides geometry and wrinkles is the hair and skin coloring along with blemishes. Notice how the grey versions of these DAZ models requires a bit of concentration to distinguish them despite the different geometries? Well a camera taking a few pictures of a person won't do to make a suitable texture at the resolutions needed in varying lighting and environmental conditions the customers will have at home and so sw will be needed to extract blemishes, skin tones, hair tones and such from those pictures and create a reasonable set of simulated textures of the person suitable for the game model. Plus they needn't compromise their modesty.
Besides gaming, now imagine a business like Wal*Mart using such SW on the internet and onsite with a 3D virtual changing room and you see such SW has the potential for Wal*Mart and other such chains to try out the next season's fashions before they go to mass manufacturing - potentionally saving massive waste of unsold and returned clothing besides virtual 3D changing rooms I think would be a big traffic draw for window shoppers.
Of course I thought that would be the case 6 years ago and I was wrong then too but the technology seems to be imroving enough such that it is at least possible in the next 6 years. It's kind of exciting.
I suspect that a lot is going to depend on what new tech the staff want to get the advantage of. Genesis 1 earned its awards. It was a real game-changer for people working in hobbiest-level 3D art. And some higher end art as well, although they probably had access to tech that was already more than anything built for gen4 was able to handle.
Genesis 2 went back to a gendered base, which quite a few people weren't happy about, but it got a lot more vendors supporting the figures. And in their defense DAZ made the transition as painless as it was ever likely to get for the user.
Genesis 3 is another real game-changer. Whole new rigging system (again), and a different UV system, which I am not altogether sure of why, but I gather there was some reason.
So the question is whether there is some tech just coming into play, or soon to come into play, that in another year+ is likely to offer something to a 3D model that DAZ is going to want to incorporate.
Seconded; even now, I'm still not entirely converted to looking first at G2 when I want to use a particular kind of character, and if it hadn't been for the push I got from the insanely low sale prices on the V7 Pro Bundle and others a little while back, my entire G3 purchasing history would be a handful (with fingers left over) of super-cheap items so I could play around with the m/f base characters.
Actually, that part of the tech is literally at least a decade old, in terms of being aimed at the consumer -- maybe 15 years or so. There's a site called myvirtualmodel.com -- which has come back, it seems, after having gone quiet for a while -- where you would input your measurements, skin tone, eyes, hair, all that stuff, and then there were a few stores, like Lands End, that had implemented the technology. Used to be available for both men and women, but now it seems more focused on women. Not sure why. In any event, Lands End doesn't seem to use it any more. Maybe it was just ahead of its time and is coming back now.
I'd like to see features integrated that would make it easier to create characters from photo's like you can with FaceGen. I think this would really encourage people to personalise their characters a lot more. Although perhaps not if everyone ended up creating copies of celebs. Who needs another Kim Kardashian or Justin Beiber look-i-likey?
Again, that isn't really a function of the model, but rather one of the host program...so it would be Studio itself that would need to incorporate those features (that would then make it usable on any model).
I'm definitely all for improvement, but I like V7 so far. Hopefully it will be a while before V8 comes out so I can spend more time with V7. I think almost everyone wants to play with the newer models, I know I never go back to the previous generations when the new one comes out, it's not that I don't want to, but the improvement on the new generations just makes me want to use them all the time. I wish though that we could have more options in customizing the next generation, like the muscles and facial features, etc. instead of having to buy different products to attain the physical/facial appearance we are aiming for.
No, not that. I remember that and it was atrociously bad and slow. It was like using paperdoll cutouts.
I'm talking you walk into a 3D virtual changing room and you can try on an entire wardrobe carried by Wal*Mart using AR technology and a 3D TV screen.