You've been heard. Response re: 4.9 and Encryption
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This is going to "sound" weird but the inclusion of DRM has somehow "killed" some of the fun for me. I used to look forward to logging in to DAZ first thing with my morning cup of coffee to check out the current promotions and grab whatever new that was so neat that it was an "insta-buy or see if I could get something that I had been wish-listing for a while. It was a fun thing to do and really kept my interest up in this hobby I have grown to love.
Now, even to get my PC+ freebies is a bit of a hassle because I have to check first to see if the content is encrypted daz connect only. I know a lot of people will say that its "not necessary" but it actually is. I prefer not to use connect if I don't have to because DIM grabs everything for me in nice convenient zip files and stores them in a directory that I created on an external drive thus giving me a secure backup of all my content. Also there is the fact that Connect makes it impossible to truly have my directories set up in a fashion that is CONVENIENT and EFFECTIVE for me to work with. The need to log in once to validate my install of studio is not -and honestly never will be- a problem for me. Software packages have been doing that for years. Its old news.
The encryption brings a couple of different problems to the situation:
1) It makes my current backup scheme basically useless. Yes, I can download the 2 offline package files and store them in the same way that I store my files that DIM downloads for me. Yes, its conceivable that I can install Studio and then copy ( NOT CUT AND PASTE) those files to a particular directory and then automate some process that will restore my content to me. I have not fully explored how this process works due to the fact that I have a moderately large (definitely not as huge as some) content library and it would take hours to restore everything if the situation went south. I just don't want to risk the headache.
2) Its DRM which in my professional experience is never a positive thing for the consumer. It just creates problems and headaches for the legitimate customer rather than the thief. Problems ranging from inability to access the software or relevant files due to connectivity issues ( Servers go down every day and DAZ is no better or worse than most businesses at maintaining server uptime) to incompatibility issues with various other bits of software. I work in IT I deal with this sort of thing on a daily basis and while certain methods of DRM are less likely to cause issues than others, eventually they all cause problems at one point or another.
3) DRM does not successfully combat software piracy. It might slow it down temporarily but sooner rather than later somebody comes up with a workaround or a way to remove it completely.
DAZ Connect I can live with unless its use becomes mandatory to get the content I want. After all, when it comes right down to it, its just another delivery method and for some people who dont want to bother with maintaining their content library in a particular structure, its probably a much easier solution. However, for those of us who DO want to maintain their content library in a particular fashion, its a huge impediment. Also theres the issue of backups which I addressed previously in this post. Connect makes this process more problematic as well. However, as long as the use of Connect is just optional, I could care less whether its there or not. Will I ever use it? Most likely not. I can see it's potential for other users though .
When you add the DRM component in however thats what really bothers me. It takes away some control I previously had of assets that I purchased the license to use. Not good. Lets try to find a method that inconveniences the theives rather than the paying customer. If anyone can do that, and it actually WORKS, then I will back the concept of apropriately working DRM.
Honestly, before all this happened, I had no idea just how bad piracy of DAZ content was. I never had a reason to think about it to be honest. I have a high stress job and digital art is a hobby for me. I downloaded Studio on a whim one day and .. BOOM! I got sucked into an addictive hobby with a high learning curve and the means to spend hours not thinking about anything that was stressful. I make pictures for myself and family and friends. I think I have a grand total of two images in my gallery and I don't care that there are not more.
Then 4.9 happened and I spent my lunch hour one day doing some research. I was rather surprised at the scope of piracy of digital assets. Not shocked because I do work in IT but rather suprised. I had always thought of digital art as kind of a niche market I guess. In my circle of friends and acquaintaces ( not counting forum groups or other virtual contacts) there are a sum total of three (3) people that do this as a hobby. One of those is myself and the other two are people that I helped get started.
DAZ and the PA's do have a right to protect their work. I have never and will never argue this. Content Piracy is Illegal. If a person makes their living or even just part of their income via digital assets of any sort, content piracy has a negative impact.
What I don't understand, and maybe this is because of my IT background, is why people take the risk of using pirated content in the first place. Its a massive security breach. It opens a door ( almost literally) to everything from identity theft to hard drive hijacking and there are even a couple of virii out there thant can erase, or otherwise alter firmware on the motherboard. (Those are pretty rare in the wild but they have been found.)
So, I would respectfully say this to anyone at DAZ who might still be "listening": Yes, I agree there is a problem with piracy of digital assets. Yes, there should be some protection of these assets to insure the financial health of both DAZ as a company and the PA's that contract with DAZ. However, I personally don't like the steps that are currently being taken to combat this. They inconvenience me and honestly all this has done is take away a bit of my enjoyment of this hobby. From reading the forums, I would say that this is also the case for a percentage of the user base. Maybe its not a hugely widespread issue but then maybe it is. I have no access to sales or subscriber numbers that might reflect this and honestly, the situation has not been in place long enough for it to show an effect either positive or negative yet. For me, it means I will ultimately spend less of my disposable income here and more at the other two stores I purchase from. I'm not saying this out of anger but just rather that its what I can see happening because their content will be easier for me to use if DAZConnect and encrypted files are forced upon me from this store.
I would like to propose another way to deal with the problem but its one that the user community will have to step up and help with. Its simple but it takes effort. a) report the content infringments. Not only to the site admins -who are legally required to do something about it- but also to all the search engines. Google for example is really good about removing infringing content from their search results. B) Education. You would not believe how many people in our connected society STILL don't know how easy it is to get malware from various torrents and other ways of getting illegitimate software. In the course of my job, I actually give my users a bit of a lecture that is almost like the talk on "safe sex" that kids get in health class. If you bring the information to people in a way that is relevant and if you show direct cause and effect, people generally do listen and heed. Not always but I have found that if someone is bound and determined to be a criminal, not much is going to stop them anyway.
Heck, certain websites, when I'd browse to them, within a few days my computer was compromised. And that was with reasonably good protection and antivirus. After 3 instances where I had to do a complete reinstall and trying more and more security, I eventually just had to avoid the sites entirely.
People going after pirated software and major content baffle me, too. Unless you are prepared to be constantly rebuilding your machine, it's nuts.
A few of us have said this: it's very much a real thing. For some of us at least, browsing the store or waiting for the day's new releases just isn't as much fun anymore with the DRM issues and the general serious corporate "Daz is just going to decide everything regardless of what PAs might want" feeling that some are getting.
It doesn't really matter how accurate these feelings are compared to the truth, since perception is everything when hobby-based purchases are being made.
What does matter is how many people the perceived loss of fun is happening to: obviously no one knows how large or small that figure is, though. I'm guessing it's quite small, but it's still there.
Thanks for the support guys. I was thinking I was alone in feeling that way
I get very frustrated about pirating RPGs, because people act like RPGs have gotten super expensive (they haven't) or like RPG writers are rolling in cash (they aren't). I mean, writing fiction hasn't had a pay increase in 90 years. Think about that. Not even adjusting for inflation or anything -- starting fiction made about 2-5 cents in the 1920s and still the same now.
At least with RPGs, though, you are PROBABLY not going to crack open your system to keyloggers and malware. Probably.
But actual executables and installed content? Man wut.
Except what prevents DAZ from removing the clause from the EULA at a later date since we know they can make changes to it? The escrow company is more compelling (assuming they ever get around to implemting it), but companies break obligations/contracts far too often, and who knows how things play out in a bankruptcy situation? If there is no DRM then there is no concern.
Had a silly thought about an hour ago ... would it not be lovely to have Connect as an OPTIONAL plug-in?
That would be absolutely wonderful!
Here's another silly thought... Why not make it a benefit of the PC+ subscription to be allowed to get all content on the DAZ store free from encryption? After all, some of us have been members of various iterations of that for absolutely YEARS and that does demonstrate both customer loyalty and a long history of purchasing content.
Ditto on that. Much less enjoyable, and since there is no "lock" icon, I have to look at every product to check if it is encrypted. IT's really wearing thin. I have thought about canceling my PC+ subscription more than once this week and returning most of my recent purchases. Heck, Stonemason has a pretty cool looking new set out and I have't hit the purchase button on it yet and am leaningg towards not purchashing it. Good job alienating your customers DAZ.
I had thought of that a while ago....however, that doesn't provide what DAZ wants, which is to REQUIRE it in order to force the new connect-only and encrypted content.
But providing Connect as a plug-in, would allow 4.8 to simply be updated with the renderer fixes. But I think they would have to extend the plug-in architecture to truly provide all the connect annoyances features.
Ok so I was able to connect studio to the Internet using my moms cell but was unable to find the folder you put the install files in to install the files, and didn't have time to search all over to install those files, do I to connect with studio again to install the offline files for Daz studio?
Look in the preferences, where you set the content directories: there should be a new entry for the Connect directory.
I'll have to look when get back home, I hope I don't have to reconnect again though
If you mean you were using Connect, remember that it doesn't use archived single "install" files — it downloads the individual files making up the products and installs them directly into the new Connect folder hierarchy in your Content folder location.
I can't find the cloud/install folder to put the studio offline files
If you use windows as your operating system, it might be something similar to c:/Users/name/Documents/Daz3D/Studio/ My Daz Connect Library
Of course this could differ depending what version of windows you are using. For a Mac, I would have no idea
Actually, a DMCA notice at least has to come from the rights owner or their designated agent - third parties have no legal standing. Daz does report links to search, which may be one reason some people looking for the pay sites didn't readily find them (we may hope).
Ok I was looking in the my library folder I'll look again
Oh, thank you for the correction. I was not aware that it could only be the rights owner that put in a DCMA notice.
There is nothing major about the release of 4.9; the improvements to the render engines seem to be about it, although they are nice.
Connect is a nono for me; however as it's supposed to make it easier for new users to get Daz working - no idea how that works, or is working out, the plug-in idea could be one that experienced users could disable. I like that a lot. In addition, it wouldn't then be taking up resources (I understand they are very small, but I prefer zero).
I've posted that the fun has been taken away; I also suspect it has been affected for those supporting Daz in their posts - all in all, very sad.
There are items I would have purchased, but haven't bothered with - hell I even got a 'refund' on the free items and haven't bothered to get them again since they were changed from Connect only. There are about a dozen items I'd buy immediately, that I can think of, if DRM didn't exist. Recently I've added one item to my wish list (http://www.daz3d.com/northern-terrace-street); I volunteer for a local charity and there are many houses looking like those, and many looking much worse in design and condition, so could definitely use them in a render or two. My wish list is fluid - usually - as I add and remove items to ensure I only have the top hundred or so items I really want (rarely need); but adding one to take the total to 91 is not really an issue for my methods.
I want my hobby back; I think, however, I'll have to go elsewhere for it when this is all over, as I can't see Daz backing down.
Smart Content now works five bazlliion times better in 4.9. Still not perfect, but the tweaks to it are huge in the useability front if you are a Smart Content user. Still, I agree that DAZ Connect seems to be the main focus of DS 4.9. It still needs a lot of work on that front -- DIM is still for more useable right now as a content installer/uninstaller.
Yes it would, but I think it's fair to say, without even needing to speculate, that optionality is not at the top of DAZ's priority list.
Suffice to say if Connect (including encrypted content handlers) was a truly optional plugin that you didn't have to install, and therefore didn't have to load, I would be happy to install 4.9 tomorrow. And, before the inevitable response, I know you don't have to use Connect, you just don't login, but that's not the same thing at all.
Yep. I'm in this camp.
Currently, my buying has already slowed down. No Manual Install = No Sale from me. That is all.
Point -- I want access to my actual installer zip files. I'm sorry, but if I don't have access to the installer zip files, then as far as I am concerned, Daz is not actually delivering the product that they're selling. No access, no sale.
Point -- I want the ability to continue manually organizing my content. Yes, I'm a 3D dinosaur, but my system works just fine for me, and I'm not about to change a 15 year old content library around just for DRM and Connect. Sorry, but "shortcuts" do not count as manual content organization. Why should I have to create even MORE files in my library, just so I know where the heck my content is? That's bunk. I have no use for Smart Content, never have, and do not need it, and will NOT use it. I detest the way Daz "organizes" it's content, that's WHY I self-organize and manually install every product one at a time in the first place. Currently this is not possible with Connect. No manual organization, no sale.
I know Daz will do as Daz wishes to do... and maybe my wallet will be thankful for it, I suppose. This is disappointing at best, but it is what it is. All I will say at this point is that until my above conditions are met, you can assume there is one less buyer for anything that is Connect-only.
I have passed up items from my favorite vendors already, simply because there was no Manual Install available. I will continue to do so. ImaginaryHouse and ArtCollab come to mind right off the rip as vendors who I normally buy from frequently, that I have skipped their recent items due to NOT having a Manual Install option. And that's too bad, because they produce some really nice items. But I'll go without if there's no Manual Install option, simple as that.
I agree that PA's and Daz have a right to protect their content. But the way in which Daz is currently going about it is not doing anything other than curbing at least my purchases. Why? Because if I don't see Manual Install available, I won't even bother looking at the product promos. I simply close the page and move on. And I certainly don't buy the item. So how is annoying users to the point that they refuse to purchase, going to help Daz as a company or the PA's that contract with it?
There has got to be a way to protect the PA's hard work without punishing the honest user. When I see something like that, I will get behind it in full support. Connect is not doing that. Connect is punishing the honest user, and only delaying, not stopping, the piracy.
Hopefully, Daz will actually do something about my two points in the future. For the time being, I will not buy anything without having a Manual Install option, and I am going to sit back and wait and watch to see how this develops. Should Daz adjust Connect to meet my requirements, I will reassess Connect products at that time. But until that happens, I am just going to stay in the sit-and-watch mode.
How is it not the same?
Unless I'm misunderstanding, I think you'll find that all products that are not DRM'd (what DAZ calls Encrypted DAZ Connect Only) have manual install options.
I covered this before, but so many posts go AWOL on these forums that it's difficult to cross reference.
It's simple: the whole DAZ Connect infrastructure is a bunch of code. I don't know if it's in the form of a DLL or a part of the main DS app. The point is that it's functionality that is not contributing to producing art, and it's using resources just by being there - even if through unused hooks in the scene navigation code. We know this must be true because one of the features of DAZ Connect is allegedly the ability to offer product suggestions based upon what you have in the scene.
And then there's the code for decryption and for communicating with the store, verifying your account etc. etc. It's all functionality that I do not want, but I DO want the core functionality of DAZ Studio. 4.8 had that balance about right. I'm not even going to talk about Smart Content - until you have proper metadata on every single product then Smart Content is as dumb as a pile of dead fish.
Anyway, this is a pointless conversation, really, because it's never going to happen. The decision has been made and the future direction of DAZ Studio is clear to see (although I won't speculate here).
I just want to add something to my last post.
All I want is for the developers to continue enhancing and extending the core art-creating functionality of DAZ Studio and stop wasting time on pointless marketing bolt-ons!
Exactly!
All of our brokered items (IE ARTCollaborations) (to date that I know of) all have manual installs. Now Freebie items we release (IE ARTCollab) may not, but we have no control over in what way those are released as they are owned by Daz 3D and even all those have manual installers to the best of my knowledge (one did not yesterday but that was an oversight and was since fixed).
Are there not offline files available for the detective bundle files?