[SOLVED] Custom Bones (Clothing) Question
Saint
Posts: 126
Added some custom bones to an article of clothing (with all the associated Face Groups, Weights, etc.) and it doesn't follow the rest of the armature on certain G9 shapes like Proportion Height, Proportion Smaller, and certain figure morphs. While I can Adjust Rigging to Shape, is there a more permanent solution to this problem? Those purchasing this product would probably appreciate that. Thanks in advance!
Post edited by Saint on
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You didn't mention how you rigged the clothing but since Proportion .... properties are mostly Scale transforms, you can firstly check: with the clothing selected, in Joint Editor > Node Attributes, see if Inherit Parent Scale is checked. If it's not, check it and test again.
Rigged as with Transfer Utility and added the bones with Joint Editor after. Inherit Parent Scale is checked; it's not the entire rigging that's off, just the new bones I added. See below:
https://i.imgur.com/hgDJVQ1.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZF5YgH2.png
Ah, Imgur never works for me...
Are these custom bones (with their own names etc.) or are they bones matching bones on the base figure?
I can't see your images either, please attach them to your posts using the Attach a File link under the main text box.
Ah, apologies. Here's a shot of the issue in action. It's not in the picture but their parent bone is Spine 4.
It seems that you dialed Proportion Head Size on G9, however, this property makes no Scale change on spine4 other than Neck 1, Neck2, Head, etc. Thus the custom Collar bone needs to be a child bone under Neck 1.
For the record, based on the recursive propagation principle, you should create a child bone under a lower level Joint in this case... though that collar is at the place of spine 1 but its bone should be parented to Neck1 or Neck2.
In that scene, it's only the figure morph (it's from another marketplace). Reparenting to Neck 1, by-the-way, didn't change a thing.
Heavy, for another example. How do I lock these bones down so they go where they're supposed to?
Inheriting Scales change and Auto Following a head / body morph dialed are different things. Dialing a head or body morph makes a vertext position change on the figure rather than making Scales change, so bones' Transforms (Translates / Rotations / Scales) won't change by inheriting. Instead, the head or body morph creates an Auto Follow morph on the clothing if the clothing is conformed (rigged) to the figure. As the clothing has skin-binding with the figure, its shape will follow the figure's heavy shape but the bones of clothing have no change in their Transforms while they just follow the change of vertex positions.
As for determining the position of the custom bones in your case, it should be simple : depending on where the clothing / accesory should be located. In your screenshot, if you're making an accessory on figure's chest, the bones should be under Spine 4. If it's around the neck, place the bones under Neck1.
In other words, an accessory made for the chest shouldn't be scaled by the properties that change the scales of neck / head. Similarly, an accessory made for the neck shouldn't be scaled by the properties that change body scales. But no matter where the accessory is placed, as long as it's conformed to the genesis figure, its shape will auto follow the morph change on the genesis figure, e.g. you dialed Body Heavy, the accessory will turn Heavy.
You've mentioned the head and neck a lot, again, this new chain of bones spawns at Spine 4. That's where it's located and reparenting the root (Collar) it to any other Spine bone makes things worse, I.E. bending at the waist or abdomen.
I've tried reparenting to other bones, like you've suggested, but these simply aren't auto-following like the other bones in the armature.
Also, I know what I'm asking to do here is possible because other vendors manage it. The Kadis Belt here, for example, the customs bones scale accordingly (Heavy, again, for example).
Why I repeated neck and head was because you were making kinda "Collar" accessory. As per a commen sense, as well as in Daz Studio specifically, a Collar or its relevant Custom Bones should be usually placed under Neck 1 rather than Spine4 or Chest Upper. If you expect the Collar follow the bone scaling on figure's Neck or Head, parenting it to Spine 4 or Chest Upper won't work ~~ That was my point.
And so-called "making things worse" really depends... because in most cases when you bend other joints under the root spine, the deformed clothing / accessory is expected as you need to make them corrective morphs ~~
Right, and I tried reparenting the root bone (Collar) to Neck 1, and Spine 1 (and 2, and 3), but the bones still don't move or scale along with the rest of the armature.
It's like the custom bones are locked into a fixed position and I can't figure out how to unlock them.
Again, Scaling and Morphing are different things. Body Heavy is a morph change rather than scale change, so there's no scale change at all on either G9 figure or Kadis Belt.
Body Heavy firstly makes G9 heavier, then creates Auto Follow Body Heavy property on conformed Kadis Belt so Kadis Belt shape follow to grow heavier. Since the custom bones on the belt is skin-binded, so their Origin and End Points change to follow... Again, it's not a scaling change ~
If your item was rigged as a conformer to G9, custom bones are correctly set up as well as filled with correct Weight, they will also follow... as epected like Kadis Belt ~
Okay, I see the confusion here. This item is rigged as a conforming follower. My process was Transfer Utility (G9), add bones using Joint Editor, weight painting, CBSs, etc.
I don't get what you mean by "locked". Hmm ~~ you made that accessory, correct ? You can attach your scene file if possible or PM me the file so that I may give it a check.
Again using Heavy as the reference, the rest of the armature on the jabot follows along as usual, but the custom bones don't.
If you rigged that item to G9 with Transfer Utility, i.e. Source Item is G9, Target Item is that "Collar", then the Collar would turn into a conforming follower. Then the following work should make it work as expected ~
I'm here trying to figure out why the bones I added don't follow along the way they do for others.
It seems I can hardly tell why the issue happened unless I give it a check ~
Well I can pack up a sample scene file if you'd like to take a closer look but I'm not posting it here, in a public place.
Yep, you can PM me ~
Check your messages, I sent you a Google Drive link. Thanks in advance!
Got the link ~ but you need to give the authorization so that I can download ~
Can't seem to attach images directly to private message so here's another example with Proportion Chest Depth.
Take a look here, the Kadis Belt follows along this ridiculous figure morph. So again, I know there's some way to do this, and that's what needs to be figured out here.
I have no solid answer so far ... in addition to the item you made, I also tried a few other ties / collars products with Body Heavy morph, the custom bones under spines or necks don't follow the morph to move either, e.g. the ties in this : dForce HnC25 Man's Denim Shirt Outfits for Genesis 9 and dForce HnC24 Chic Striped Shirt Outfits for Genesis 9 I mentioned the custom bones follow other body morpsh like Anime Body Heavy Feminine, Anime Body Heavy Masculine because they also trigger some Scale properties dialed.
As for the Kadis Belt, the custom bones on it follow to move... maybe because the ERC Freezed Thigh bones on Body Heavy morph have X Translates. However, I suddenly noticed another issue from that Kadis Belt, i.e. it has no fixed auto-follow morph of Body Heavy. Now when G9 turns Heavy, the Sword turns pretty Heavy at the same time. It doens't make a sense to me because though a Heavy guy may choose to use a heavier sword but it doens't have to be that heavy. My point is: The Belt needs to have some auto-follow FBMs fixed.
Anyway, I currently have no idea why the custom bones under spines / necks don't follow Body Heavy morph. I'm still experimenting some tests then see if other folks can give some ideas.
Well again, just using Heavy as an example. And as you can see, there are others. Now that last screenshot of the Kadis belt, that figure didn't even exist when Strangefate created the G8/G9 versions. Yet as you can see, the custom bones for the belt and sword still follow along. How is the question here.
Well, I appreciate your efforts all the same. I wish an answer to this question was easier to come by. It's not just this particular piece--I tried adding bones to others and the same issue arises.
I'll move on to Plan B if I can't get it resolved this weekend, but I'd still like to know the solution for future projects.